New to this Community seeking advice

[MichelleLT]

Doodi - usually the LBS ends it because they get sick of waiting and/or decide they are done with the D finalizes. The other thing we see happen is that the WAS comes back and the LBS can't move past the betrayals (this is usually with affairs) and decides to end it anyways.

In all cases however, the actions of the LBS definitely influence the WAS. In that respect, the LBS has some control over whether the M continues or ends.

JR - in your case there have been no As, you haven't experienced the lies and emotional abuse that a WAS in the midst of an affair or MLC dishes out. You can empathize with what your W was dealing with and why she decided to leave. It was a wake-up call for you. You have a far better chance than many of the people on here both due to the length of your M and the fact that the S was not precipitated by an A or MLC.

Maybe she will, maybe she won't. Either way keep working on you. That will pay off regardless.

Puppy posted something on another thread that I thought was very relevant.

My wife asked me both during -- and after -- her affair, why I was fighting for her. Why I hadn't kicked her out immediately. I told her:

- because I took a wedding vow, before God, and I took that very seriously. It was not "for better or for better yet," it was "for better or for WORSE";

- because I loved her, and we had a lot of shared history together;

- because I didn't want to demonstrate to our four children that when things get tough, you cut and run. You make a stand and fight for what is important to you, for as long as you can, to the best of your ability;

- because if the situation were reversed, and I had say a gambling or alcohol addiction, I would hope that she would do the same and fight for ME;

- and because I didn't want to go to my death bed with REGRETS, that I should have tried harder. If I was going to err, I was going to err on the side of trying to save my marriage and keep my family intact.

What keeps you going?

You need to think of some goals for yourself. I know you said you are going to try and be more friendly, increase contact a little. Break that down, be specific.

And remember, it's always about you. I will do X.

You are already calling the kids X times a week at set times.
You are already going to the gym and doing other GAL stuff.
Keep that all up. But maybe set some goals regarding your W.

What did she used to nag you about? What were her complaints? What did she always want to do in the M or see more of? Can you do any of these things long distance? Have you been working on active listening?

I'm just trying to help you brainstorm, certainly don't just answer my questions.

Things are slowly getting better. The co-parenting is going better, you are seeing and talking to the kids more. She is more flexible. That is all great.

So keep the changes going! And always try and keep building on them. Don't get complacent. Shoot, move, communicate.

John - yeah, that's by far the most common scenario on these boards.

[JR09]

What did she used to nag you about? What were her complaints? What did she always want to do in the M or see more of? Can you do any of these things long distance? Have you been working on active listening?

My W used to always say I never did anything with the kids, that as soon as I got home, I'd usually watch TV to unwind or fall asleep. I've actually been trying very hard to do a lot with the boys each time we'd link up. I think my W was surprised I had so much activities planned for the boys' summer with me(fishing, water rafting, hiking, camping, swimming...) I made 8X10 copies of us rafting on the Arkansas river and gave a copy to each son.

Last week, when I spent two days with the boys, my W asked what activities we had planned. I knew this was a big deal for her. So I've been working on that ever since, fully connect with the boys and be WITH them, do things WITH them.

Another big complaint was that I always did what I wanted instead of what my W planned. She used to say I never listened to her. Well, I also have really been paying attention to active listening skills since my W left. Whether over the phone or face to face with my W, I've learned to listen and validate what she said. The fact that I restate and validate is my way to show that I listen and understand what she just said. Doing so has defused a lot of potential tension from my W. I think she does resort at times to test if I am consistent with my "changes". I think I passed the tests each time I saw her.

Anyway, I understand there is still a lot to do, a lot to think about, and a lot of consistency to maintain if my W is to truly realize how much I have really changed. Like you said Michelle, I'm in for the long haul, and time is on my side.

If the boys can figure out that my changes are real, I'm sure my W also figured it out too. It's now a matter of showing her that the changes are consistent and permanent.

Thanks for the great coaching Michelle.

JR

[JR09]

Called the boys this evening to just say Hi. It's great to listen to them. I also talked with W briefly, asking her about the boys' health. I told her I have to travel to UT in 3 weeks and that I have plans to go up to ID for 3 days to see the boys. Iasked her if that was ok with her. She said she'll think about it as we get closer to the time.

She had her soft/kind voice. Never a sign of anger. She just sounded as if we just chatted while I was deployed overseas. It was just pleasant to talk. I'm trying to rebuild that friendship...slowly...

JR

[MichelleLT]

Sounds like you are really working on addressing that stuff.

Glad conversation is easier. That's a great building block.

Hope you do get a chance to get up and see your kids again that soon!

[KellBell0820]

I don't know that's what was meant. I've read lots of threads on here by the LBS, and what ends up happening a lot of the time is the LBS is motivated to make big changes at first to get out of their depression and "win" back favor with the WAS - usually after a S. The WAS just stagnates and doesn't make many changes. Before long, the LBS, if they are good, has detached and made themselves a better person. The WAS has only detached.

Then the WAS flounders on whether to file or not. Commits to it, then changes their mind silently. The WAS keeps saying to themselves, "My LBS sure has made a lot of changes, they seem happy, they seem like a good person now. I wonder if..." and they come and go in and out of that mentality.

Then one day the LBS decides they have moved on in every part of their life except with their WAS. Then, the LBS becomes the WAS.

That makes amazing sense and offers quite a bit to think about.

[JR09]

Sounds like you are really working on addressing that stuff.

Yeah, I am. I figure no one can ever say that I tried my hardest to at least be a good father at every single opportunity. Surely my W cannot ignore that...This neighbor of mine said that if I show W how serious I am to be a good father, it may turn things around. Who knows if it will or not. But I really am trying to do my best.

JR

[Coach]

So you are being a good dad, working on yourself and still you are in limbo. Your wife has walls up to protect herself, you going to storm the castle or attract her out to see what you are up to? Start moving on. Become mysterious. Flirt for the sake of flirting. Make people glad to be around you, radiate warmth and let your charisma flow. Your wife is watching you.

Be catnip.

[JR09]

Coach,

When you say "start moving on", what do you mean? Also, when you say "start flirting", do you mean flirt with my W, right?

Just wanted to make sure I understood you correctly. That's all great advice that I need to apply. THANKS Coach.

JR

[Coach]

When you say "start moving on", what do you mean?

your wife left two years ago. she doesn't view you as husband material for her. until you let her go and move on then you are fighting trench warfare. find people who value your time and who you are (GAL), post it on FB. take the pressure of her - let her go.

flirt with every woman you meet (not anything inappropiate). compliment them on their hair, smile, attitude, accomplishments, clothes, perfume and what they think. make other people feel important and special around you. do the same for your wife, if she sees you make another woman feel important it's catnip.

[healthydad]

Hey JR,
Coach (hiya, coach, how are you?) is spot on. Despite what we believe when we love someone, doing something/anything based on trying to get another person's response to align with our hopes is just a way of keeping us tethered to a frustrating fiction - while also pushing that person away.

Flirting isn't about trying to establish something new with a new person, it's about remembering what's valuable in yourself - and what makes you feel charming, happy, playful and alive.

It took me a long, long time to understand what it meant to detach from my XW - but doing so helped me see myself and my situation with a lot more clarity. I think that's the value of detachment - of allowing our partner to go on his or her own journey, while we found our own strings to lead us through this labyrinth. Detachment lets a lot of the mind reading and paranoia fall aside, it enables us to live independently, not just of the judgments and expectations of another person - but also independently of the obstacles we set in front of ourselves when we try (all too desperately)to understand or predict what another person wants.

The funny thing is that detachment also works in a healthy relationship - it's that ability to be yourself and allow another person to be genuine to herself - it's a giving up of any effort to control another person - even if that control just comes in the guise of expectations and desires that another person see things our way.

Let your life be about you and your boys - continue to be a good, honorable man, and let your wife do what she has to do for herself. It may not turn out the way you hope, but if you find comfort in yourself, you will be fine no matter what.

Will your boys be with you for Thanksgiving?

-Carlos.