Sandi2, Coach, Puppy and Gucci help!

[Bravehardt]

Hello to all.
I’ve been lurking around here since April reading and learning. But now the time has come for me to consult some of the experts. I‘ve been following Thinker, Orange Dog, and Antlers sitchs. Puppy, Coach and Gucci Loafer all seem to have great intel. Most sitches seem so similar. I need help.

My sitch.

Together 20 Years, Married 17, M 46, W 45, S 17, D 14, D 6, Bomb 3/9/09.

Wife exploded on my D14 the Saturday night prior to the bomb and I came to Ds rescue. Wife went to work the following day and never came home the next night. She text me that she was at her sisters (which she had not been to her home in years) she was unhappy about what I had said to her in my Ds defense. She came home the next morning as I was taking the kids to school and acted as if nothing happened. After dropping the two older kids at school, I then verbally exploded on her (she had stay out like this once some months before). Later that day I basically received the standard list of formalities ILYBNILWY, you should find some that could take care of you, bla-bla, I don’t know who I‘am , I’ve taken care of everybody for so long. The wife asked me to move out for thirty days, at first I was going to do that but did not feel I should. Several days later she suggested that she move in with her mom. A week later she did just that, the kids and I live at the house. I was floored with everything going on.

Some back round up to this point, in the last 9 months her mom became more dependant on her due to dementia, we had an IRS levy in February, and I’m a contractor struggling financial. Up until wife snapped life seemed normal. She works in retail, was spending a little more time with friends (I accepted as her trying to escape her moms constant calling on her). She had shown a lot less interest in family activities. Kids were calling me more often because she would not respond to their calls. Lack of communication has been an issue.

With her sudden change in attitude, I began feeling as if something else might be up. Like an affair? I was angling towards an internet romance because she was dumping history and cookies, all so changed all email passwords. So I went to cell our provider and had a manager pull up the last months account records and main password to the account. The account is in her name through the company she works for. Low and behold there are a set of number with long talk times. This happened before she moved out. So I called both numbers and the same guy answered each number. I showed her the number and she acted like she knew nothing, so then I showed her the bill where she intimated most of the calls. It just a friend, what I can’t have a male friend. I was so angry when she tried to walk away and I grabbed her arm. I wanted details. Anyhow I know I was wrong to physically grab her so I let go and she left. She claims she hasn’t him called since last time on bill. She moved out a couple of days latter.

I had not talked with any one up to that point about what was going on. But a friend finally asked me what was up. So I told him about the sitch and he turned me on to the movie Firestorm and the love dare. A tad bit to late in my case, it ended up looking like I was pursuing and pleading.



April
Looked at the new phone bill and see that she is texting and calling OM. I was hoping that I could trust what she told me. The texting has doubled each month since February.
I called her on but she still play it off like she did not know what I was talking about.
Well I had made a real fine mess out of the matter. I had done everything your not suppose to. I followed her once also, was accused by her as being a stocker. At this point and time she has withdrawn from the kids and myself more each day. She even started talking in legal terms, not saying the D word, but implied. 50% of your is 50% mine. She was not staying at her moms every night. I felt as if she had created a secret life. Easter was weird separate items from each of us to the kids. She has stated that I can talk about anything except us. She seems like teenager in many ways. Alien at times, the voice and eyes of a stranger. She pretty much ignores the older kid and caters to our 6 year old.

Then I came across this site and purchased DR. I’ve practice some of the principle’s but keep going back to feeling out the Rs temperature. I’m trying to understand her. All these symptoms apply WAW, MLC and Depression?


May
Wife is still living at MIL place. MIL moved out with BIL, who had interfered with her mom moving into an assisted care home in November (my wife had set up the whole deal and was very happy to accomplish this). The brother basically told her their mom she could move in with him (he rents a room). MIL tells wife I going to moving in with BIL. So it took him till May to rent a house. MIL moves in for 3 days and BIL puts her in an assisted care home. Anyhow my wife kept MIL apartment for another month. Not much communication from wife up until this time, until till she told us about the above one night at dinner. She had been taking my Ds to stay with her at the apartment once a week and taking them to school a few times a week since this all started. She spent the night for mother’s day. W requested very expensive gift from kids. Ws cousin passed away mid May. I was informed of the service by her uncle. She proceeded to let me know that she would attend with her children and be with her family (who don’t know were separated). I informed her that I would be paying my respects and that infuriated her. I attended and she threw a fit in the parking lot.

June
She moves out of MIL apartment and doesn’t tell kids or I with who or where. She quits helping me out with the kids (taking or picking them up from school). My D 14 cut herself and tells me it because she feels it’s her fault were separated, and is try to relieve the pain. W ignores my text and photo of the cuts on Ds arm. Takes W over 9 hours to callback and claims she was working. I arrange counseling for D. The following week W calls from work phone twice worried about the dog in a thunder storm. What the hell ? The kids get out for summer vacation and I ask her if she’ll be able to help me out over the summer. She says she is working 4am to 1pm. Basically no. So I figure out my own schedule. Then the following week W calls to tell me her work hours and is pissed because it doesn’t flow with my schedule. Then her car breaks down on fathers day weekend and tells me about it on Saturday. I ask some questions in which she answered in a way that sounded like she handled it on her own (because she told me she is exercising her independence in the past). Father’s day she tells S that I blew her off and left her hanging. W text me happy Father’s day in the afternoon. I text back thanks, how r u. did every thing work out ok yesterday. No she replies, can you give me a ride to work. I did give her a ride to work, found out where she lives. I also paid for the repairs to her car. Just crazy stuff from her, like maybe there’s a chance and then there is not. She has requested that she spend every other weekend with kids at our home and that I should leave. This has taken place twice only a Friday night till she works the following day.

July
My girls stayed with her last week for the first time. She had asked if D 6 could spend the night with her and I told her that she need to tell me who she lived with.
Which turned into a mild fight, her stating that we should then have lawyer draw up a legal separation, and I blurted out why stop there. I went out side to calm down and she came out and I told her that I don’t want to fight with her. She then told me who she lived with. Then I had my monthly R talk with her. and agreed to let the girls stay with her.

So here I am. I have fast forwarded over a bunch of stuff and tried to shorten it up. I ‘am to the point of filing myself and need some help and perspective. Sandi2 I’ve read some of your posting and they hit home. I’ve been trying to distance my self from the sitch but with kids involved it’s been hard to. Extremely hard to see the effects it has on them day in and out, all three have brought me to tears in one way or another.

I’ve detached but not for very long. Dropped the rope? 180s, GAL yes. Ignoring text and phone calls, yes.

I look forward to any advice from all the knowledgeable people here. Thanks.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Hi Bravehardt,

I read your sitch, and I would agree with all of your assessments. Although deeper than most, she is exhibiting most of the classic behaviors for MLC/someone in an affair, so at least we have that to go on.

Have you seen an atty yet? Preferably a good family law atty who specializes in "men's right" and paternal custody issues, and find out what your rights and responsibilities are. It's probable that you have a good case for "abandonment" against your wife, should you choose to play that card.

I'm concerned about your daughter cutting herself; how is she lately?

You seem like a real bright guy, and pretty knowledgeable (now) on the DB principles. I don't normally do the annoying psychiatrist "I don't know, what do YOU think??" thing, but . . .

What do YOU think you should do?

I have a feeling you know pretty well what to do, but maybe need some help doing it??

Puppy

P.S. I hope you are documenting everything.

[Serenity13]

Hi Brave...

I know you didn't ask for me however I wanted to give you some insight on the cutting...

I do it myself and have done it for years...

I am trying very hard to overcome that and so far so good...

Your daughter does that to release the overwhelming emotions that are flooding her...

That isn't something that can be stopped overnight...

I have been in therapy for years...

It is a coping mechanism, not a good one however one that works for her at the moment...

As her Father, in order to help her cope, find ways to let her safely let go of the stress that she is experiencing or help her gain a greater understanding of the situation...

The best approach is to discover the deeper cause and address this, which will hopefully then result in the coping mechanism disappearing.

Now if only I could follow my own advice

[Coach]

Braveheart, Welcome aboard. Just keep posting to get help and post to others you can relate to. The more info the better about your sitch helps. Each of us here "knows" what we know. You have to filter and discern what advice might work and fits your values.
Where is your wife living now? With who?

Do you have a lawyer?

How are bills split now? It's not as cut and dry 50/50 like your wife thinks.

Why are you leaving the house on alternate weekends and letting your wife tell you to leave?

I don’t know who I‘am , I’ve taken care of everybody for so long.

Do you understand what she is telling you?
How does your wife feel cared for?

What do your phone bills tell you now?

Read up on boundaries, MLC, EA, and The Five Languages. You can handle it.
Cheers
Coach

[Bravehardt]

Thanks to all the responses.I'm new to all this posting on here so this might take awhile to figure out.

[Bravehardt]

Puppy

I have talked to a laywer back in april. At that time I was still in shock. He advised me to set up a C appointment and let the W in on the date. It never happened. She had mentioned it once but when I pressed futher, she said what i can't change my mind.

My daughter has been seeing a C for a month now, she is doing fine. I have kept her under my watchful eye and with the help of family and friends she been able to keep here mind off of it a little more.

What should I do?
It's month number 5. I have been to hell and back. I've seen the alien rear her ugly side and the retreat. The side that I've know for twenty years seem to be around more lately. I feel that she understasnds that I might play the card you mentioned. The last two weeks she has been calling and texting me daily(which I don't ussually repond to for hours or the next day). Most of the the communication is regarding our D 6. She has shown a little more concern for the other children also. So I am kind of in holding pattern to see what happens. I need help looking at how I can respond back to her. I still love her, thats why I'm here. She know the door is still open. And has only responded to me- What if I can't come back, The house has comsumed me. I don't like the dynamic of the house. But will not elaborate o these statements. I do need help. I been over whelmed with all the new responsibilities, the kids transportation, washing the clothes, cleaning the house, doing the bills, I've run a construction company and the W to care of everything else.

I started to document this and that but not very good.

[MrBond]

Well I'm not any of the ones you asked for help from, but I do feel for your sitch.

IMHO it is a classic and very destructive MLC. Backing up a bit. What were her issues with you? Were there problems in the M that might have triggered the MLC aside from the mom's health problems? She mentioned that she felt she was doing most of the work in the M, how true was that?

Right now there's nothing you can do to change her mind about anything. Protect yourself and your kids. Get a lawyer and a T for your D. Get close to them like you never had before.

The MLC spouse is like a tornado hell bent on destroying everything in its path. You need to grab the kids and barricade yourself in the storm shelter while she's raging.

If this is an MLC, you're going to need two things: Prayer and Patience.

As a spouse of someone in MLC, you have only two choices:

1) Cut your losses and leave - it will get a whole lot worse before it gets better.

2) Stay - but be prepared for a constant up and down emotional roller coaster ride that you will never believe. Plus MLCs can last between 2 - 5 years or more, so you are going to need patience and compassion beyond belief. You will have to GAL and live your life without her in it yet live with the hope that she snaps out of it one day. She might not.

It comes down to what do you want to do for yourself.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

If you divorced with your wife in her current state, would you seek primary custody of your children?

[Bravehardt]

Serenity

Thanks for the kind words. I jumped all over this as soon as I could. I set up a C appointment for my daughter right after it happened. The C requested the M-W-D 14 attend first session. The W did attend. She actually step up during the session and was the fist one to speak to the C about the concerns for our D. The C dove into the cause of why my D stated she cut herself first hand. Why did the seperation occur if there was no problem in your marriage according to W leading upto March? she could not answer. Tried to place blame on Ds friend. Which had nothing to do with it. So any how wife left session a little pissed. My D is very intelligent but kind of compulsive, she place the piano, is in the marching band clarinet section, and has a love for Japanese animation. It is very hard to break her concentration from any activity once she it into it for a while. She has friend but only seems to hang out with one of them. She is online a lot of the time, I have started to limit that time. She goes to site where they role play in a fantasy world. I'm trying my best.

[Bravehardt]

Puppy

Yes I would.
She has stated to me that she did not want the kids or I to leave the house back in May. I run my business from home. This was the night she told us about her mom moving in with her brother. That night was a turning point for her in talking to me by myself for the fist time in 2 months. I kind of blew it a week later, and communications closed down again.

That's the problem, her current state has so many different looks to it. I fear she may have had a mental break down of some kind. But she also show signs of MLC and WAW.

Our finances our tight, I pay all household bills, insurance, cell phone, ect. W has a couple of credit card in her name but I'll bet she has reach her limits. The W works in a retail store and makes just above minimum wage. She was part time until mid may when she realized what she had done. I'm mind reading a little here.

In may I got a little mad at her one day when she came over to the house and made herself at home like nothing had happened. She came in and made herself some coffee (no big deal) but then proceeded to do some laundry and go hang out by the pool. I approached her when she was putting clothes in the dryer and asked her what was going on. That she was the one that requested the space apart and she was crowding my space. She became very angry when I told her that she was not pulling her 50% of the deal in regards to the kids or anything else. At that point and time she had been taking them to school 3 times a week maybe less. I told her that I could hire a driver to handle that if she thought she was investing 50% with them. They kgirls had spent a few nights with her once a week. She then said that I should be paying her a $1000.00 a month spousal support. So we have had arguments about money. Which might stem from the irs issues and me not having the kind of income i had in the past. She may feel insecure that I can't support her and thats why she pulled away.
I don't have a clue. I have looked at all kinds of aspects, including what I have done to contribute to this whole mess.