I'll refer back to my earlier post - if porn became a substitute for a healthy sex life with one's partner, then in that case I would sorta understand the concept of it being "cheating".
Thread #10 22 year M, MLC, Piecing since 1/07 Goal: Live with confidence & enthusiasm!
I got a little confused about your H's EA with young girl. Is that over? Then you found out about his porn. Was that an accident or were you trying to find out about him and involvement in an A?
I'm thinking that if he did not delete his computer activity, then he wasn't trying that hard to keep the porn a secret. BTW, do you have children?
Can you tell me your ages and how long you've been M? Thanks.
Liz, I've learned that people should never make promises unles they know 100% that it will be kept. I feel so strongly about promises b/c I've seen people in such a habit of saying, "I promise" to their children and don't even think of the effects of broken promises to them. Anyway, to make a promise or to ask one from your H is not a good ideal. For one, I suspect he is addicted to porn and just b/c he "promised" never to watch it again.....simply means that he will have to be more secretive about it.
Your H must be really sexually HD and he may feel that he needs something "more" than he could ask from his W. You were really disgusted at what he looked at and I don't blame you. But for some who have been addicted to this (or so I've read) after a while, it takes a certain intensity or level to do what it use to do at the beginning stages. He probably knew you would be completely shocked and disgusted at the content of what he was viewing. I'm not making excuses or saying it is a good thing, but just trying to help you see this from another angle.
As far as cheating......that would be like expecting him to never look at another woman he passed on the street and wonder what she looked like naked. Maybe you "do" expect that from him, but if you do, then you are not being realistic. That is why I wondered about your age. I would have felt the same way when I was young in my M b/c I simply didn't know how men were and how their minds opperated. He can't stop thinking and you might as well ask him to stop ever thinking again. Your H can work at controling things in his life (and his mind) but as a man, I doubt he considers it cheating to look at porn. As long as he's having a good R with you and not using porn to replace his intimacy with you.....I don't think you'll make him see it as cheating. He will just agree and continue what he's done for since discovering male hormones.
Now his behavior with OW is different. You should expect him to stop any and all inappropriate behavior with OP immediately! Did you discuss the young girl with him or just the porn? His watching porn may trigger his EA for OW....or the other way around. I had to learn what triggered my desire to flirt over the Internet. I had to completely & immediately stop feeding that hidden "thing" in me that seem to drive me to do what I did. I don't have any desire to do that now, but if I started doing the things that triggered it....I would be right back to the place I found myself before....I believe.
I don't remember your past thread, but you said your H lied a lot to you. I know you feel more secure by trying to ge him to make promises, but I hope you can break away from that.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Why call it cheating in a way that makes it sound equivalent to infidelity?
I wholeheartedly concur that using porn as a replacement for a decent sex life is unacceptable, and lying about it is a betrayal in the sense that any lie is a betrayal. But adultery it is not.
It is much more useful to say, for instance: "it is unacceptable to me for you to use porn as a substitute for a healthy sex life with me," than "you dirty porn using Ahole, you are cheating on me."
The first gets to the real problem. The second makes PORN the problem, rather than the disconnected sex life. And, then the second makes porn the BIG HUGE DEAL that has to remain a DEVASTATING ISSUE blah blah blah. This is unfortunate, as few men, even the best, decent, loving, caring, compassionate, faithful men will permanently stop using porn. So, making porn the BIG HUGE ISSUE, rather than the sexual disconnect, kind of sabotages things.
In any case, it sounds like Liz's sex life is hoppin', so I don't think the sexual disconnect is the problem here, unless it is coming from Liz's side. (Imagine, for instance, that she is faking Os and not sharing her authentic sexuality with H which is in fact why she is freaking out about the porn because SHE would like to be able to use it too, lol...)
No Oldtimer I am not having issues with my "Os", in fact all is very well in that department!
I can understand taking a look at a strangers stitch and judging their life and situation without knowing all the facts. My H and I have always been in agreement about temptation and what it can lead to by entertaining it. We are best friends and do just about everything together...we are very open with each other about everything. Sounds a bit unrealistic? Maybe so but it is the truth. So when things like this arise we "both" freak out a bit when we hear or see something that catches us off guard. Oh well have your opinion about me...no biggy!
Thanks again Rob for responding...I will come on your stitch when I have more time ((((BIG HUGS)))))
I made no judgment on your sex life, except that it seems to be hoppin'. If you notice, I said, "Imagine..." in the discussion with Rob about a situation that I just said I did not think applied to your case.
The question remains -- what is it about the porn incident that caused you to freak out? It is probably more useful if you reply to the message that I really directed toward you rather than the one to Rob about a situation that didn't apply to you...
P.S. The point here is to find a possible healthy way for porn use to exist in your M, rather than making it into something that continues to trip you both up and puts you in the rather unlucky motherlike porn enforcer role.
I am doing good, besides my stupid insecurities. It is just that I want to trust H soooo bad, but there is just incident after incident with him. When everything seems to be going good something he does puts us back. I do try to keep my PMA up but when things take me off guard I react...and I know that is the worse thing to do.
The thing about the porn is that he has always said how disgusting it is and he didn't understand how men look at it. So I guess that pretty much bothers me because why say one thing and than do another. So in other words is what can I believe is the truth. I try very very hard not to be the mother and try and be understanding and supportive and be all that he needs. I am not perfect and I do slip up. My biggest problem has been that I have been so focused on being there for him that I have stopped with my GAL....he does have a tendency to want a lot of attention and for the focus to be on him... whether it be in our relationship or in public.
I hope I have answered some of these questions a bit. It is just really hard to go into all the details because not only do I have limited time but it would probably be a book rather than a stitch....lol
Liz, thank you for your sweet words you posted on my thread.
My heart goes out to you about your stitch. I wonder if your H said what he did about the porn b/c he knew that is how you felt and how he figured that he "should" feel....but the fact is that he didn't truly feel that way at all. Our old sin nature over-rides what the spiritual nature tells us. Plus, our society tells us that porn, masterbation, etc., is perfectly normal and nothing is "wrong" with it. So, it causes confusion for people.
When I was first M, I was so innoncent that I bordered on the line......well, no I didn't border....I "was" a prude! I was not raised around anything that exposed me to things like that and I didn't even read books on sex. I was extremely sheltered. I'm surprised I knew where babies come from! So, you can imagine my shock when I found out that my H enjoyed looking at magazines that had sexual pictures.
I don't know, but I suspect your H wants to please you and do what you want him to do.....but his "nature" gets the best of him. People can control most of what they "want" to control. He'll have to decide what is more important to him. However, if he is addictive (and he probably is) then it won't be easy for him to leave it alone.
I cannot stand for people to lie, but I have known some who seem as if they had no control over that either. It was almost a way of life with them. They would lie when the truth would serve the purpose better. Has no logic. I don't know how to deal with that part, expect to call him out on it. I have learned that the longer a person gets by without giving an account of his/her lies, the more they will continue to lie about everything. I think they get to a place that their lies even become real to them (in some cases). I have had three people in my family with that "problem" and it drives me insane. They started when they were kids, and people ignored it thinking they were just telling "tall tales", but then they grew up and it got worse. So, I believe in calling them out whenever they are caught in a lie. It does then no good for them to get away with lying.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
