Divorced and want to reconcile...

[mar1713]

Hey Dday,

There's not been any changes in my sitch, I've had a streak of bad karma lately and to make a long story short, my ex doesn't even ask if there's anything he can do to help. It's Christmas and I he does want to keep it separate and the xmas party he was going to go to with me, he didn't even mention again, sooo, I'm going to chill for a while and let it be. I'm okay with that, the more I get into my own life and have been wrapped up in my kids, especially at this time of year, it's been so busy I dont' have time to finish a complete thought sometimes! ...

I wanted to find you thread in piecing, but I don't know how to find it? Help? Thanks dday, I'll talk to you soon..

Maria : )

[jon2911]

Here's dday's thread. Great thread.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1897802&#Post1897802

[dday101798]

Hi mar,

You're on the right assumption for now, slow it down and take it for what it is. Sorry it's not going exactly the way we'd all like to see. Let him have some time. During that, make yourself the best darn mar1713 there is to be desired!

[RonD]

Hey, Mar and Dday, just wanted to wish you guys a Merry Christmas. Hope things go well for you!

[OldFool]

I've read a lot of threads here, but this is one of the most captivating and fascinating. A few thoughts that came to my mind in reading about your present situation:

1. dday101798 is giving you good advice. Listen up.

2. There are success stories here that were achieved in situations similar to yours. There is hope (but a lot of hard work too).

3. When you left your H, it changed everything, but you don't seem to fully recognize that. Take this "being late" thing. When you left your H, that made a big statement to him about your ability to be "inconsiderate". Now, I'd bet he's watching to see if you've changed. Whether your intention or not, the message you sent was, "My Monday evening routine is more important to me than you are. If it comes down to being on time for you or going to my regularly scheduled gym night, I'm picking the gym." That's reinforcing his current view of you ('course if that's what you wanted, you're doing great!).

4. Your H doesn't trust you. Like many who walk away from a M, you don't seem to grasp the utter destruction and long-lasting impact of your act. Trust is a requirement of any working relationship, but checking out leaves it in tatters. This mistake can be overcome with time and care, but your apparent frustration with the pace of progress suggests that you expect to (largely) pick up the relationship where you left it off. That's not how it works. Consistent action, restrained response, and lots of time will be required. Consistent action provides the basis for rebuilding trust. Restrained response proves you can take the heat without bailing out like you did before. Time proves it's not just talk. Without these, your chances of success are substantially reduced.

5. Stop and look in the mirror. What you're feeling now is probably similar to what your H felt when you left. How do you like it? Now use that to understand why he may not be welcoming you back like the prodigal son. Give him the time he needs to work through the issues you left him with. Right now he figures he's better off without you. Nothing you do or say should reinforce that belief.

6. Avoid being the grape. You've probably heard the one about the grape that got stepped on...it let out a little wine. You say, "I've had a streak of bad karma lately and to make a long story short, my ex doesn't even ask if there's anything he can do to help." It's OK to say that here, but don't say anything like that to your H. My guess is you've given him a few reasons to whine about you, too, so if you open that door, be ready for a lot of return fire (and the loss of a month or two of progress in your situation).

7. Take heart. You realized your error before you'd wasted ten years of your life chasing a dream that never existed in the first place. Some WAS' blow a decade or more going from one bad, empty, or dysfunctional relationship to another in search of the elusive perfect person and end up with a life that's no better than what they left (if not worse) and an Ex that's long since moved on. At least you have a shot.

Not only that, you and your H still talk (even if it isn't all roses and violins) and you're even considering a trip together! Some folks here would kill for that kind of opportunity. Of course, what you do with it is up to you, but I'm optimistic that you may join the all-too-small ranks of those who came, who saw, and who conquered.

[dday101798]

Hi mar,

"oldfool" made some very interesting observation.

Just to re-ittereate and inject some of my experience in my (x)W coming back. This IS a new start. You are still reflecting on too much of the past. I guess it's time to ask, are YOU ready for this, no tso much is your H ready for this?

Most importantly, there's more than enough time to apologize for the past later on.

[mar1713]

hey there, Well there were some interesting points here and they are well-taken. I am a bit confused though, because in the "GAL" advice, I have done that...and that is what the gym/taking my daughter to dinner is all about. I've been doing these things and I also have another child to take care of. Just because he moved further away, why should I alter my life when the difference is only 1/2 hour? and Of course that particular night, I got lost and it did take longer, but it was not intentional and I kept him updated with text messaging the whole time.
I dont know, maybe we've both become comfortable in our own lives that we now have? But then again, on Christmas, he didn't intend to stay for dinner, but he was there hooking up my dvd and since it was almost ready at the time he picked up our s, I asked if he wanted to stay and so he did. He also wanted to buy me a Christmas present as a "friendship gesture"..he knew I wanted to continue learning to play guitar so he bought me a beginner acoustic. He also did the one-armed buddy hug as he left on Christmas. I will take that for what it's worth..a friendship gesture and try not to read into it too much right?

[dday101798]

I will take that for what it's worth..a friendship gesture and try not to read into it too much right?

Exactly.

You know, maybe part of the problem here is neither of you know who is who in this situation, ie which role your playing in the whole scheme of DB'ing? Sounds like you both may be "in limbo" as they say?

[OldFool]

dday makes an excellent point regarding roles. Where there is a WAS, DB/DR is primarily meant for the LBS. However, in your sitch, things are a little more complicated because you were the WAS first and are now the LBS. The result is that you can't just play the role of the LBS...you're both. It also complicates how to read, interpret, and apply the DB/DR program.

I am a bit confused though, because in the "GAL" advice, I have done that...and that is what the gym/taking my daughter to dinner is all about. I've been doing these things and I also have another child to take care of.

GAL is important...but it doesn't trump other factors. It helps you remain attractive to the WAS, helps keep you from being viewed as a readily available "fall-back" position (without actually threatening to "find someone else"), and makes sure that you have a life of your own in the event your WAS does not return. These are all good, but aren't worth much if, in the process of GALing, you end up driving your WAS away. This is even more true in your case where you were the WAS first.

Just because he moved further away, why should I alter my life when the difference is only 1/2 hour?

The answer is that you needn't alter your life one bit. In that same vein, he doesn't have to take you back, give you a Christmas gift, tolerate your company, accept your schedule, or have anything to do with you (apart from the basic requirements of taking care of your s).

The question is, are you more interested in being right or making progress in restoring your M? I'd bet that if you were dating someone and he moved a 1/2 hour further away, you'd figure out a way to account for that...not spend your time arguing as to whether that 1/2 hour was an unreasonable inconvenience to you.

...and of course that particular night, I got lost and it did take longer, but it was not intentional and I kept him updated with text messaging the whole time.

Yes...you have an excuse for that night. However, my comment wasn't an indictment based on that particular incident. Instead, it was intended to be more broadly illustrative of what feels like a subtle undercurrent that seems to say, "Yeah, I was kind of messed up for a while, but I've told you I'm over that...so get with the program". Maybe I'm misreading it, but if you feel like that at all and any of it is coming through to your H, it's not helping you.

I dont know, maybe we've both become comfortable in our own lives that we now have? But then again, on Christmas, he didn't intend to stay for dinner, but he was there hooking up my dvd and since it was almost ready at the time he picked up our s, I asked if he wanted to stay and so he did. He also wanted to buy me a Christmas present as a "friendship gesture"..he knew I wanted to continue learning to play guitar so he bought me a beginner acoustic. He also did the one-armed buddy hug as he left on Christmas. I will take that for what it's worth..a friendship gesture and try not to read into it too much right?

That's right...don't read too much into in now. But it's still a good sign. My comments aren't intended to leave the impression he doesn't have any interest or that there's no hope. Rather, they are to remind you that you went out and did your thing for a year-and-a-half (according to your comments) and that although you now have a handle on things, you left your H with a lot of "baggage" to deal with. I believe both ron and dday have pointed out that if your H was through with you, you'd see him for about a minute when you pick up or drop off your s and you'd talk to him for about as long...just enough to schedule them. No going to events, trips, texting, calling, or pretty much anything else. When you took off with the OM, you gave your H the right to move on without you. The fact he hasn't says tons...even if you can't hear it.

There are a few other statements you've made that call out for comment (though all have received good responses from the others monitoring your thread).

He told me that he feels that he asked me to choose him or the other M, and I chose the other. That is just the way he remembers it, and I have to deal with the feelings the way he remembers them. (What he said, as I remember it, was stop seeing the other M and I told him that even if I did, the emotional stuff would still be there and I didn't know if I could do that at that point, because the emotional stuff would interfere, and that's what he called choosing and it's when he moved out, all in one day).

...and...

I did not want to cheat or lead my H on, I had too much respect for him to do that, so I quickly came clean with the feelings I was having and that's when according to him he wanted me to choose and he thinks I chose the OM, but what I really wanted to hear was that he didn't want it to end, for me to come back and we could find another counselor and work things out.

You continue to profess that you didn't choose the OM, but the fact is you did...and apparently because your H didn't say what you wanted to hear (not sure how good it is, but it's a reason). His request that you decide whether to see the OM or work on the M was legitimate and you belittle it by essentially implying it's not true and saying, "That's just the way he remembers it (emphasis supplied)". If that's coming through to me, you can bet it's coming through loud and clear to your H. The Good Book says no person can serve two masters. Most employment agreements forbid an employee from working for a competitor during their employment (and sometimes even after). Nearly all elected and public sector positions have strict rules regarding conflicts of interest. These all recognize the fact that in situations where there are competing demands, you cannot give 100% effort to both and one of them is going to suffer to the benefit of the other. Your comments make it clear that you didn't understand this important concept then and you don't now. Were I in your H's place tallying up the points for "Reconcile or Leave", this would count heavily in the "Leave" column.

The affair ended because the OM is a clinical diagnosed commitment phobe and doesn't mean a word he says past the moment he says it. He got too close and ran back to his parents house.

It sounds like if he hadn't been commitment phobic, you wouldn't be here (you said you "love [your ex], always did, always will", but your own statements indicate you also stuck with the OM for over a year).

kimmie (did she hit a nerve?) and dday both wondered if you'd asked and answered that all-important question:

...should you get the full blown chance to reconcille and your XH hasn't made any changes to the "issues" that made you feel the right to walk, will you accept him as is the second time around or potentially walk again?

Your response was:

I would need for him to work on his part of the relationship so that it doesn't lead to the same result (which I tell myself it wouldn't, but to be fair to both of us, it would be beneficial if he would be willing to try) I look at it more this way: If someone has a wound, I'd like to see it heal, it doesn't mean I don't love the person for who they are, I just want to see him feel better and be able to do fun things again.

That didn't exactly answer the question, but it seems clear enough that you can't accept your H "as is". However, the way you word it sounds less selfish, doesn't it. Nevertheless, it's still an expectation. Getting involved with someone means accepting them for who they are...not what you hope they can be. Your H may have unresolved sexual issues and it would be great if he could resolve them, but you need to decide if the rest of the package is enough to satisfy you if that won't or can't happen.

Don't get me wrong, I understand where you're coming from. My ex was sexually selfish (she expected me to perform whenever she wanted satisfaction, but only when she was interested and only until she got hers). Given the excuses used for going outside the M, I certainly had mine, but I stayed. Sure, she had some issues, we all do, but the balance of the good outweighed the bad.

I find it ironic that his expectation that you should be "on time" is nearly too much for you ("why should I alter my life?"), yet you have no qualms about expecting him to fix his intimacy issues if your reconstituted M is going to work.


Well, I could go on, but I think that's enough to give you the idea. I took an hour or so to re-read your entire thread and have to say that much of the advice you've been getting is good...it just doesn't seem to be sinking in. In short, you have too many expectations, too short a time-frame, and don't seem to grasp the impact of your earlier decisions and the amount of time it will take to undo the damage they caused. These, in turn, threaten to undermine your progress by prompting you to move too quickly, give up too early, or expect too much.

To review, you are on good terms with your ex, have regular and positive interactions (no yelling, fighting, name-calling, hang-ups, or cursing), have been to events together, and even have a trip together planned. Considering what you put him through and for how long, this is fantastically good stuff in a relatively short period of time. Still, you appear to have trouble appreciating what you have.

The upshot is that of the situations that bear any resemblance to yours, I think you are actually the greatest threat to your own success. Please...go back and read your thread again (as I have) and take the comments you've received from others to heart. If you want to see how your situation could turn out, look up kikisum. She's not here anymore (probably too busy with her former ex now), but she spent a lot of time here before things turned around for her. Her long road to success with all its drama, progress, and backsliding, might give you some valuable insight and perspective.

In the meantime, enjoy the fact you have reason to be hopeful. For many of us, having what you've got right now is just a distant dream.

[RonD]

Hey, Mar, how things going?