Holy Crap! Didn't expect THIS!

[Trixi]

I think you've already read the Harley books, so you know one plan could be to make sure you have 20 hours a week of positive time together.
So you might put that to him.
Dont discuss it with him, dont say where you got it, dont explain in too much detail WHY you're asking for it.
I'd just suggest saying to him,

"I think that in order for us to really make a go of it, we need to commit to spending AT LEAST 20 hours a week of fun, positive time together.
This REALLY MEANS A LOT TO ME.
Are you willing to commit to that,every week, no excuses?"

I did even better than just reading the books; we went to a MB seminar. In a sense, that was the straw that broke the camels back. When I tried to encourage the Undivided Attention time, he was busy being depressed, mopey and disconnected, so it was far too great of an inconvenience to have to put time in. Okay, that was a little snarky for me to say... I'll say it this way he HATED the "requirments". Of course, Harley (when I told him my situation) asserted that my H was either cheating (he wasn't--as soon as we separated he put a profile on match) OR he was a sociopath because it was almost unthinkable that someone would destroy a marriage and family just in the hopes of maybe finding something better. (ie, he wasn't in the fog, I was actively trying to make the marriage work, etc.)

I just remembered that yesterday he said he might see his mom (and stepdad) tonight and that he would tell them about his impending job loss. I said "what are you going to say about us?" and he said "That we're thinking about getting back together. That you might be moving back soon..." I said "ORRRR, you could say that we ARE getting back together, that I AM moving back in soon and that we are going to make it work. That you were selfish and despite how you treated me I have stood by you thru thick and thin and that I *deserve* a REAL chance- not a half-assed one!" He laughed. ..but it's not really funny...

Planned living together...yes...this is so freaking hard. I have a bad feeling that I won't be sure of where I live until a week after I move there since according to him we "might" be getting back together.

[Dom R]

"He laughed. ..but it's not really funny..."

you should have told him that.

dont let him get away with stuff like this any more. its a large part of what contributed to your current position.

there's the old saying of, "if you keep doing the same thing, you will keep getting the same results".

I think there's a related thing in marriage, of "if keep allowing the same behaviour, you will keep getting treated the same".

[Trixi]

Oh, believe me, when he laughed I just gave him the stare down of "it's not funny."

He saw his parents Monday night. Last night I asked how it went. He was pointedly vague on what they said about our situation. Which lead to him talking about just how confused he is; how we always end up with him questioning what to do. That he wants to "jump out of his skin and run away". That he wants to feel 100% sure.

He asked why I forgive him- how do I know it will work out- why do I think he sabotages things?
My answer was that I forgive because we are a family and despite his bad decisions, I don't think he is inherently 'bad'. I explained that I keep seeing him chasing after filling the "void" in him and I had hoped that after we got thru this time period, that he would see what love is. (Part of this is the love of God.) I said I knew it would work out if he would put the same amount of energy into making it work that he has to try to "get away". That God would bless us if we made the right decision despite the feelings.That the feelings would follow. He was entranced by all this (ie, head resting on his hands like a kid watching tv on the floor) and at one point I stopped and he said "keep going- tell me everything you're feeling". I said I thought he sabotaged things because he was afraid of intimacy and that he had fallen into a bad habit of always doing what he wants, when he wants, how he wants and that being a true partner meant giving that up.

He said that what I told him made him feel a lot less confused. But... based on past results, I assume this "feeling" will not last and he will go back to his default position of 'on the fence'. And, at this point "on the fence" means divorce for him. He thinks he may be sabotaged us so many times that it is now broken beyond repair.

Unfortunately, he is someone that doesn't hold himself to keeping his word. I guess I should read the writing on the wall. We have family counseling for DD at the end of the month. And my landlord wants to list the house. I have 2 cash buyers that are hot to buy; a contingent buyer who is hot to buy; and some other things in the pipeline, so I do have income coming (theoretically)....

I am thinking that I will give him til April 2nd to either commit or we are filing and I will buy this house....but even if he did commit on April 2nd, how would I know he wouldn't flake out on April 3rd (or 4th, or 5th, and so on?)

[Dom R]

I said I thought he sabotaged things because he was afraid of intimacy and that he had fallen into a bad habit of always doing what he wants, when he wants, how he wants and that being a true partner meant giving that up.

I suspect its not that he had "fallen into" that habit, bu that he was actually always this way.

Unfortunately, he is someone that doesn't hold himself to keeping his word.

My guess is that he was never brought up to value keeping his word, as a matter of integrity.
And he never changed from that.. because people around him, allowed him to keep doing that.

I'm actually quite serious about the whole "little child" approach. It sounds like he simply has never matured (or has regressed) in that area.

A child does not learn responsability and integrity all by himself; he has to have it modeled to him. and even then, he needs to be held to standards of integrity by those around him.

You are now in that position. My guess is that he can "grow up", if you lead him to it. If you stand firm.

EXPECT that, if left to his own choices, he will back out. However, also expect that, if you hold him to keep his word (rather than just standing back and seeing what he does himself), that he WILL keep his word!

I do believe that all he needs, is for you to hold him accountable for his words and commitments. He seems to be responsive to you.

Maybe a change of metaphor: a growing tree, sometimes needs an asissting stake or pole beside it, to grow straight. Without that pole, it will just plain fall over!
But, after some time of growing, (and it may be a considerable time!)... the tree can eventually support itself.


(yet, some trees still need that pole there for the rest of their lives )

[Kalni]

Unfortunately, he is someone that doesn't hold himself to keeping his word.

That right here, made a bulb light! (sorry for the English-cant think of the phrase).

This right here is a "weapon" in your hands. Treat him as he IS a man that will keep his word. Make sure he knows that. It's basic for men IMO. Put yourself in his shoes: what would you feel for the woman that expects you to be the best you can be? I cant explain it the way I am thinking it. I may have to come back for this, in...Greek, LOL
K

[Trixi]

@Kalni- I totally understood what you were saying. H had said previously that I made him a better man.

@Dom- you would be proud of me

Tonight he came over to load up stuff for the dump and he was in a sort of "mood"...he said that he was doing what was "right" after weighing the pros and cons, but that he was sort of kicking and screaming. (That was the perfect lead in!)

I said that I understood what how he felt, but that ultimately, it didn't mean all that much to me; that it was sort of like a kid that half way thru the sports season changes their mind. A good parent will say "No, you made a commitment, you're going to finish the season" and even if the kid is initially resistant, they will usually get back into the swing of things." I told him that he is very childlike in that he is driven by his emotions, he stops when things get tough, he hasn't learned to keep his word. (I did this with love.) He actually agreed with me.

I said "I'm not going to just let you not keep your word." H "You mean from our wedding day?" Me "yup."

By the time we started to eat dinner HE was saying "so, we're in this together?" and "It's "us" against the world, right?". He said that he did find his wedding ring, but it's one that neither one of us likes. It's too small and sort of 'sharp' on the edge. He found the box for the ring that means the most to him (we bought it around our 9 year anniversary to replace the uncomfortable ring). He had said to God that he would take it as sign if he found the ring; so he found the box of the ring he wanted (empty darn it)and the "wrong" rign, but he still took it as a sign.

He owned up to a lot of his wrong-doings. Said that he has been a fool, stupid and squandered much of what he had.

He asked how I felt about moving back and I said not very good at all. And he looked at me and said "Why do you put yourself thru this?! You must really love me."

We talked about a lot of things- A LOT. and for now, I feel more hopeful than I have in a really long time. When he was leaving he said "We're both in it, to win it- 100%."

[BeginningAgain]

Trixi,

This all sounds very positive to me. Kudos to you for being the mature and sensible party in all of this. Best of luck to you!

BA

[Dom R]

Great job, Trixi

hey this is interesting...

He said that he did find his wedding ring, but it's one that neither one of us likes. It's too small and sort of 'sharp' on the edge. He found the box for the ring that means the most to him (we bought it around our 9 year anniversary to replace the uncomfortable ring). He had said to God that he would take it as sign if he found the ring; so he found the box of the ring he wanted (empty darn it)and the "wrong" rign, but he still took it as a sign.

well, looks like he got a "sign", that he should even stop looking for the "old" ring, and instead buy a new ring, for the start of a new relationship with you

I've read that some couples choose to do that deliberately.
Makes for a good daily reminder to do things differently from now on.

(wouldnt hurt for you, too )

[Changed Woman]

Hi, Trixi-

Not sure if you even remember me and I hope I'm not overstepping my boundaries....I haven't posted here in more than a year and was just sitting her thinking..."I wonder how everyone else has faired over the last year" so I came back to see if any of the people posting during the same time I did were still around.

At any rate....I gave up on ex after I found out that despite the fact he told me there was NO other woman when he moved out that indeed there had been...all along. Soooo..the nature of my situation is irrelevant...what is relevant (I believe) is that I remember you from the days when I was so wrapped up in my own despair and I remember thinking what an awesome woman you seemed to be. That said, it seems like you've really been hanging in there trying to make this work and I just wanted to give you a different perspective. There is an entire world out there waiting for you....life is short....don't waste any time not getting what you deserve in life. YOU DESERVE THE BEST AND TO BE HAPPY! If that happiness includes your husband...I hope he figures that out soon and gets his head out of his a**. If not, I hope you realize that soon and are able to move on.

I hope this doesn't offend you. I am happier now than I've ever been. Dating someone new and I love him like I've never loved anyone else. Time will tell where it goes for me, but I know that I wouldn't trade what I experienced with my ex for the world. It made me STRONG and I know now I can make it through anything. So can you...don't forget that.

[Trixi]

Dang! I haven't been here for a LONG time! Thanks for the positive thoughts CW It's those sorts of comments that help me know that no matter what happens with my H, I will be okay.

My update is this-- H and I have been being together a lot more. I move back in this coming weekend. He is actually saying that he is excited about it and can hardly wait.

Yesterday I was over at 'the other house' (which will be 'our' house again on the 1st-lol) and he said that losing his job was a catalyst but not 'the reason' we are getting back together. He said I make him a better man; we share the same values and want the same things out of life. He is sorry for all the crappy things he's done these past 2.5 years; on the other hand, if it wasn't for these past 2.5 years, maybe we would just be in the same spot as before-with him thinking that maybe he could be happier with someone else. Being separated has made him realize it wasn't me, it was him. And now we can have a fresh start and do things right.

So, I am hopeful...

For a short time my H had had another roommate move in. (A fellow that was recently divorced (not by his choice) and a member of the band.) When my H told him he had to move out, he said he felt really bad because he had told the guy that he could move in and get his feet under him, and now here he was making him move. The guy said he was kinda bummed but also thought it was really important that we try to make our marriage work, so he was fine with moving. I am glad that my H has some friends in his life that are pro-marriage. H is especially glad to see the 25yo move out. -- I guess *that* bro-mance is officially over. LOL

I ordered him a new ring that should be here today or tomorrow. I'm still a little..stunned? that this is really happening. I have been perpetually waiting for the other shoe to fall; expecting that one day he would come over, be distant, I would ask what was wrong and then he would say he changed his mind. But every time we're together he actually seems happier than the time before. In time, I am sure I will come to trust him; for now, I still a fear that he is gonna rip the rug out from underneath me. I'll believe it more once I am moved in and we are settled in a bit.

Thanks again for checking in w/me