Hello hello - is there anybody out there?

[Margali]

Thank you, guys. Your support means a lot to me.

Today I was feeling insecure and clingy, and bless his heart, he can tell when I'm that way and he always tries to reassure me that he loves me and considers this a long-term/permanent relationship. He said today that he knew I was the woman for him when we'd been dating about a year. (We've been together almost 9 years now.)

See, this is why it's hard for me to understand the no-sex thing. Why would any man want to be with a woman forever (or at least for as long as possible) and not have sex? Don't men dread the idea of never having sex for the rest of their lives?

One thing I AM doing right: I'm constantly telling him how much I like the cuddling, kissing, compliments, etc. I didn't study psychology in school for nothing! [g] Positive reinforcement - make a big deal out of behaviors you want to encourage, right?

I know that my being late for things all the time is one thing about me that he hates and wishes to change. To tell the truth, I know this is an issue for me in all areas of my life. It's a control thing. I'm late to work, late getting home from work, late to family events; sometimes even late for fun things that I want to do. I have a real problem here. It's like I'm telling people "you can't boss me around or keep track of me." Or I want to keep on doing what I'm already doing; I don't want to stop and go somewhere and do something else.

It's a big, big deal for me, and I need help changing it. My DH is mad at me about it; my dad is mad at me about it; my supervisor tolerates it bcs she's often late herself ([g] I'm lucky at this job - the management team all comes in at about the same time I do. In past jobs, I haven't been so lucky) - and also, I'm good at my job.

Anyway. I'm not sure if I want to talk to him about feeling like I was being punished the other night. I know that I have a tendency to get paranoid, over-analyze things, and assume I know other people's motives. That could be where the "feeling punished" feeling was coming from.

OTOH, I also know that I hate unpleasantness, scenes, and difficult conversations. That could be why I don't want to talk to him about it.

Anyway, I should go now - he just got home from the store. But I'll be back....

[SillyOldBear]

See, this is why it's hard for me to understand the no-sex thing. Why would any man want to be with a woman forever (or at least for as long as possible) and not have sex? Don't men dread the idea of never having sex for the rest of their lives?

I completely agree with you. The problem is, I agree with you because I'm another HD spouse trying to figure out another LD spouse. He does NOT think in those terms. Sex does NOT equal love for him in any sense. He does NOT dread going without sex. That doesn't mean he can never feel more desire than he does now, but he honestly doesn't feel it and that's why he doesn't make sense to you. You and he have entirely different objectives. But you have the same goal--you both want a happy marriage to the other, neither of you wants to split, right?

One thing I AM doing right: I'm constantly telling him how much I like the cuddling, kissing, compliments, etc. I didn't study psychology in school for nothing! [g] Positive reinforcement - make a big deal out of behaviors you want to encourage, right?

Yes, and that's really important. It's common for people to try something for a little while (like his cuddling effort) and give it up in disgust if it doesn't pay off immediately. If you don't show him that it matters to you, you take the chance that he will not only stop the cuddling/kissing/touching, but even worse, will take that as a sign that YOU don't love HIM enough. You're doing exactly right.

I know that my being late for things all the time is one thing about me that he hates and wishes to change. To tell the truth, I know this is an issue for me in all areas of my life. It's a control thing. I'm late to work, late getting home from work, late to family events; sometimes even late for fun things that I want to do. I have a real problem here. It's like I'm telling people "you can't boss me around or keep track of me." Or I want to keep on doing what I'm already doing; I don't want to stop and go somewhere and do something else.

It's a big, big deal for me, and I need help changing it. My DH is mad at me about it; my dad is mad at me about it; my supervisor tolerates it bcs she's often late herself ([g] I'm lucky at this job - the management team all comes in at about the same time I do. In past jobs, I haven't been so lucky) - and also, I'm good at my job.

That made a lot of sense and showed that you have a pretty good insight about yourself. Have you had that same conversation with him, more or less in those same words? What happened?

In the discipline system I use with at-risk kids with severe behavior problems, there are five steps to apologizing and dealing with a severe behavior (for example, this is what you'd have to do if you got kicked out of my classroom and wanted to come back)
1. I did it.
2. I'm sorry.
3. It's a problem in my life.
4. I accept the consequences.
5. I accept help.

You're up to step 4. What will you do about step 5?

Anyway. I'm not sure if I want to talk to him about feeling like I was being punished the other night. I know that I have a tendency to get paranoid, over-analyze things, and assume I know other people's motives. That could be where the "feeling punished" feeling was coming from.

OTOH, I also know that I hate unpleasantness, scenes, and difficult conversations. That could be why I don't want to talk to him about it.

I have the same issue. I find that it helps me to talk to her about what I was feeling even if I've decided it was wrong, or even if I don't feel that way anymore (sometimes I THINK I've decided I was wrong and I don't feel that anger or hurt anymore, then discover by talking it out with her that it's still there.) As long as you talk about how you feel/felt and don't try to make it what is/was, I think it really helps. Your mileage may vary, of course.

"When I wanted to have sex the other night, and you laughed, I was really angry at you. It felt like you were laughing at the idea of having sex with me, like I'm so unattractive that it's funny that I thought you would want to have sex with me."

vs.

"It makes me angry that you think I'm so unsexy that it's a funny joke for me to think you would want to have sex with me."

[Young at Heart]

.....He said today that he knew I was the woman for him when we'd been dating about a year. (We've been together almost 9 years now.)

...One thing I AM doing right: I'm constantly telling him how much I like the cuddling, kissing, compliments, etc. I didn't study psychology in school for nothing! [g] Positive reinforcement - make a big deal out of behaviors you want to encourage, right?

I know that my being late for things all the time is one thing about me that he hates and wishes to change. To tell the truth, I know this is an issue for me in all areas of my life. It's a control thing.

+1 on SOBear's comments.

It sounds like you are married to a good man who really does love you. You need to look at your glass as being half full and not half empty. You are also doing a lot of things very well. Keep it up!

Now a digression. One day many years ago, I was listening to the Dr. Laura radio show, while driving to a meeting in my car and I heard a woman tell about how she helped motivate her husband who came to her and told her that he needed to loose weight. She felt that it was something she wanted to help him with. She told her husband that for every 10 pounds he lost, she would let him buy her a sexy outfit that she would wear for him in their bedroom.

He lost a lot of weight fairly quickly, as he was really motivated by his wife. Dr. Laura thought that this woman was brilliant.

Now back to your situation; you say that you want to change from being late and that it is something that drives your husband nuts.

Perhaps, you and your husband can figure out a way to "motivate you" for becoming a timely person (maybe adapting what the lady in the Dr. Laura show did)! You say that you need cuddling and sex, he says that he wants you to stop being late. I see a real opportunity for him to help you reinforce a change that you really want to make. Since you have studied psychology and understand positive reinforcement you should be able to work something out. Maybe this will appeal to the "knight in shining armor" self-image of your husband?

Good luck.

[NotFromThesePart]

M,

Speaking as a male and one accused of being the LD spouse perhaps I can relate. I DO hate the idea of being in a "sexless marriage". I'd never agree that it is what I want. But I also wouldn't leave if/when that hapens. Why? In part insecurity.

Sex is sex, cuddling is cuddling, talking is talking. One does not always lead to the other. In fact talking about sex has always been hard on me.

When W and I had a dry spell, it built up. The pressure to perform got greater and greater. This made it harder for me to initiate, even when I wanted to. W did not help here. I didn't want to hear that I was "sexless" nor, strage, etc. Honestly I just wanted it go my business and go to bed. I know that wasn't want W wanted nor was it fair. But practice makes perfect and if she could just lower the pressure bar, it made it easier.

In the back of my mind I thought of it like working out. I know the first few times are going to be difficult, but once we get into the swing of things, I enjoy it and it gets easier and better.

I've changed my perspective a bit, but perhaps this is what H is thinking.

I highly recommend NOT asking him why he is not interested in sex nor reminding him that you are the HD. It may be totally true, but he may not see it that way.

Just my opinion. YMMV.

[SillyOldBear]

I'm glad we're hearing more from the LD side, even if the message is "You probably shouldn't be too sure I'm the LD side."

[Margali]

Young at Heart:

"Perhaps, you and your husband can figure out a way to "motivate you" for becoming a timely person (maybe adapting what the lady in the Dr. Laura show did)! You say that you need cuddling and sex, he says that he wants you to stop being late."

But he wants me to be on time ALL the time, not just bcs I think we're going to have sex. Knowing this, I don't think he would agree to that type of "incentive" or "reward system" for me to get home on time.

NotFrom:

I'm so glad you came on this board and talked! I think this is exactly what I needed - to hear from an LD man (other than my H).

"The pressure to perform got greater and greater. This made it harder for me to initiate, even when I wanted to. W did not help here. I didn't want to hear that I was "sexless" nor, strage, etc. Honestly I just wanted it go my business and go to bed. I know that wasn't want W wanted nor was it fair. But practice makes perfect and if she could just lower the pressure bar, it made it easier."

"I highly recommend NOT asking him why he is not interested in sex nor reminding him that you are the HD. It may be totally true, but he may not see it that way."

I'm very aware that he probably feels pressure to perform, and I'm doing my very best to not put pressure on him. In fact, talking about the issue never does any good at all, so I'm trying to just back off, leave him alone, and find other ways to comfort myself.

I just wonder sometimes, how long is this going to go on? How long can he hold out? How long can I hold out, before I just have to say something, cry, get upset, etc.?

How long can this go on before I finally just give up, and start preparing myself to leave him?

I'm trying to GAL and do a 180. One thing I could do, that I haven't done for a few years, is pay attention to my spiritual life. I went to a metaphysical bookstore today, and I might go to church next weekend. (I'm Unitarian.)

Other ideas (for 180s - things that sound totally unlike me):

- Exercise
- Housework
- Be on time for things (LOL)

[NotFromThesePart]

I'm very aware that he probably feels pressure to perform, and I'm doing my very best to not put pressure on him. In fact, talking about the issue never does any good at all, so I'm trying to just back off, leave him alone, and find other ways to comfort myself.

I'm not sure leaving him alone is the point. But taking the pressure off. Maybe rent a video that is not XXX. Something this isn't explicitly porn but is sexual. Basic Instinct comes to mind but that is far too transparent. The idea being that it gets his mojo going in a way that he can justify as not pressuring.

Or maybe exercising together? Yoga? I dunno. But I know it is random times that I find my W totally sexy. Not when she is trying.

I just wonder sometimes, how long is this going to go on? How long can he hold out?

Longer than you think. If sex isn't on his mind, he is not holding out.

[TeaEarlGreyHot]

If being truthful is shooting someone down, then shooting someone down IS the appropriate thing to do. What is wrong about pointing out incorrect assertions? What is wrong with requesting truthfulness? Your choice. Choose.

My wife cannot tell me why, if I'm so wrong about all that I've observed, she has not once attempted or even hinted that she would share any level of intimacy with me. Am I frustrated? Absolutely. My frustration after more than 13 and a half years is obvious...but she cannot even explain why she wanted the situation she has precipitated (other than she did not expect me to keep our agreement on this). This is not something that I'm left in the dark or otherwise attributing to her in a vacuum. When I put that question to her point blank, she had absolutely no answer beyond admitting that she just did not try even when she did "miss" our intimate moments.

Maybe that's her defensiveness, but I also have made the following point very, very clear...I have resigned myself to a completely sexless marriage with a complete absence of intimacy with her. I have given up any expectation of anything different.

I'm done.

[New Life]

This all makes me very sad:(

Wondering if I'll ever have sex again.
It's been at least 5 years... Maybe more. He's a great husband, father, provider and says he loves me... Have nearly wavered into EA/PA in the past due to this, but have stopped short due to my marriage and child. Am currently very tempted by OEA, thus I came here...

The lack of intimacy in my 20 year marriage has led to depression, especially the last 3 years with our child getting older.

W 50
H 50
D 16
M 20yrs