Stitching together a new quilt

[FindingMyVoice]

CL, Thank you so much for your kind and supportive words.

[12bar]

Hi FMV!

Love your new handle by the way, it is very becoming of you

Wow, it has been a while since I have posted anything on here but I have lurked periodically this summer. I am really happy to see that you are doing so well in your sitch and that you are still strong and working through the hard stuff.

You will have to update us on the latest with you when you get a chance, I hope you are still playing your guitar.

As for me, I needed a break from this place in a big way and with the arrival of summer, I just started to focus on living. Yesterday was my one year "bombiversary" (I think Mindful coined that one and I love it!). I am much more detached and have really made progress on getting my self-esteem back since our failed MC session in March. I have not said one thing about our R since then, just going about my life. She has not mentioned anyting either so I guess that means we are still very much in limbo. The only thing I guess is good is that no R talks has allowed us to just relax and have a good time together which is maybe a good thing, IDK. One year post bomb and she is still here and we are able to laugh and have fun. I still don't know if she has ended her A but she never comes home late anymore since Feb/Mar.

I am getting tired of the limbo though after a year of this. The more my self-esteem creeps back, the less tolerance I have with no intimacy in my M.

I am riding my bike like crazy and lifting more weights than I ever have in my life. I am on track to be in better shape at 41 than I have in my whole life so I guess that is a good thing!

Keep up the good work in your sitch and keep us updated on the progress with you and H.

Take Care - 12

[FindingMyVoice]

Love your new handle by the way, it is very becoming of you

Thanks 12! And hi! How nice of you to stop by - great to hear from you!

I hope you are still playing your guitar.

I am! Still really enjoying it too. Are you as well - were you able to get that acoustic you'd had your eye on?

Yesterday was my one year "bombiversary" (I think Mindful coined that one and I love it!). I am much more detached and have really made progress on getting my self-esteem back since our failed MC session in March.

Love that too. And so happy to hear you're finding your self-esteem again. Have you been able to expand your circle of friends and/or reconnect with old acquaintances? I remember you and I were both in the same boat because of moving to a new, larger centre.

I am getting tired of the limbo though after a year of this. The more my self-esteem creeps back, the less tolerance I have with no intimacy in my M.

Yes, although the ability to relax and enjoy some friendly time together is always good, the continued lack of intimacy is definitely a warning sign that issues still need to be addressed when you're ready to. I'm sorry to hear that's still missing for you guys. I should ask though - when you say 'no intimacy', what does that mean to you? Are you talking emotional or physical? Or both? What's missing?

I am riding my bike like crazy and lifting more weights than I ever have in my life. I am on track to be in better shape at 41 than I have in my whole life so I guess that is a good thing!

Good for you! And turning a few heads is always a good thing for the self-esteem!

Keep up the good work in your sitch and keep us updated on the progress with you and H.

Thanks again 12, hope to hear back from you again soon. Take care. PS my car is still lookin' spiffy.

[Sister]

Hi FMV! Just thought I'd drop by your thread and let you know I've been watching you as well.

I really admire your persistence and willingness to do the work it'll take to save your marriage. You are so lucky to have found this place and taken the steps to fix your marriage before it got to an explosion that couldn't be repaired.

I agree whole-heartedly with Concerned_Listener!

And thanks for keeping a tab on my Bro...

[FindingMyVoice]

Sister, hugs to you for stopping by and for your encouragement.

And thanks for keeping a tab on my Bro...

That's so kind - you're so welcome; I created a new thread in newcomers asking for support for him; perhaps it might lift his spirits. I just wish I could do more.

[FindingMyVoice]

Hey again 12,
Just in case you're by here again tonight, just thought you might want to know - Awoken's sister was on his thread this morning; guess he's having a rough time right now. She was wondering if anyone had contact with him on the alt, if they could get in touch with him to lend some support. Here's the link to his current thread.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2050804#Post2050804

[Four_More_Years]

To: FMV
From: FMY (lol)

Somehow I missed this. So sorry ... Have not meant to ignore! This is the slam-bammin-est time at work for me, so too many hours and too much wine leaves me not paying attention as I should.

How long have you been in counselling? How old are you both? And, was there a specific event that finally made you pick up the phone and book an appt with a MC? What was it? What happened?

We briefly saw a counselor much earlier in our marriage -- I truly can't even remember when. Maybe the 7-8 year mark? Short-lived and unproductive; barely a blip on the radar. About two years ago I was at a point where I felt that counseling was our last chance; the "big guns", so to speak, that needed to be pulled out after a particularly painful incident between us.

H was willing to go, and we went for about four months before calling it quits. He approached it very much like watching The Biggest Loser religiously each week with a bowl of ice cream then wondering why you haven't lost 50 lbs. by the end of the season. He would go to the appointments, but nothing from within would get discussed or translate to our life outside those weekly one-hour sessions. Which, in turn, would make me more frustrated and edgy, which wasn't helping anything.

Since Thanksgiving he has threatened twice to leave me. After the second time I insisted we go back to counseling. If he was vocalizing that (from a man who vocalizes nothing), then I hoped he would see the value this time. Even our counselor points out that he is much more engaged in the process this time around.

Which, ironically, means he's opening up more, as am I, and what she originally viewed as some surface communication issues that could be dealt with are now clearly much, much deeper issues with us both that may or may not be resolvable.

I worry here, about your counselor saying something like that to you. Although a MC has to acknowledge that ultimately, the decision of whether your marriage will continue, will be yours, they also should make it clear that what you're working towards is to keep your marriage intact.

What she said doesn't bother me. It also shouldn't be taken to indicate that she doesn't take this seriously. I much prefer an honest acknowledgment of the difficulties we face than a "rah-rah" or "staying together is the only acceptable result" approach. I'm very comfortable with her and have never had the sense that her goal is anything but to see us in a strong, satisfying marriage long term.

In some ways going to the IC on my own, was helpful because the challenges I faced in initiating and asking for change, were significantly different than the one's he was/is facing in the process. So, going alone allowed me to get the individualized support and guidance I needed. Perhaps you might try one or two sessions on your own?

Actually, we end up going separately more than together. lol After our first meeting we each had two sessions to discuss our viewpoints and family of origin, then we met again together. She is adamant that if one of us goes alone then the other go alone, as well, before we go together again, to avoid a perception that she might be "closer" to the one who's there more or is taking sides. But since returning this time our we generally go separately in between every joint appointment and sometimes more, depending on how things have gone/what issues have come up when we were together.

Keep your mind open to the fact that you and your H may indeed be able to become friends again, reconnect, and create a better relationship than you even had in the beginning.

Unfortunately, we do not have a strong base to refer back to. He is 51 and I am 43. We were together less than a year before we married and we are about to reach our 20th anniversary. I was fairly young and he was fairly set in his ways and it's been a struggle from the start; we were never a strong couple. His particular needs/quirks/weaknesses simply don't mesh with mine. Which is one of the things that I'm actually realizing now, mostly in terms of understanding myself and what I need and accepting that it simply may not be possible for my husband to meet those needs. Doesn't make him a bad person, just a bad match for me and I for him. He just seems more willing to continue to settle than I am. Which I find sad, as well.

What I struggle with is the idea of how much of his core self can I reasonable expect him to change to accommodate my core self? Am I willing to spend another twenty years with someone I don't have a connection with as either a friend, or a confidant, or a lover? It's a nice enough life, but it is a very, very lonely one. I am willing to work -- and work hard -- on both myself and my marriage, but truthfully, most of the work right now is finding a way to tolerate while I go about the work of just figuring out me. Fortunately, I've got at least four more years. ;-)

Tell me about you.

I know when I first start asking for change, my H was extremely adverse; it would cause a lot of conflict - he'd question, blame, dismiss my requests, outright contradict that I was so unhappy I thinking of leaving. But I kept asking though, kept talking - my IC said that's the only way they're going to know how important it is to you.

What brought you to that point?

[FindingMyVoice]

He would go to the appointments, but nothing from within would get discussed or translate to our life outside those weekly one-hour sessions.

That's surprising, given the frequency you were going. Wonder what that was all about? Did you ever ask him? If so, I suppose you got the 'I don't know...' answer?

Since Thanksgiving he has threatened twice to leave me. After the second time I insisted we go back to counseling. If he was vocalizing that (from a man who vocalizes nothing), then I hoped he would see the value this time. Even our counselor points out that he is much more engaged in the process this time around.

That was me too. I just wanted to run. It took me months of therapy before I was able to know, let alone vocalize, where my hurt and pain were coming from. If he's becoming more engaged in the process, just be prepared ok? He might have a lot of hurt underneath somewhere, that he just hasn't been able to acknowledge yet. It could come at you in a bit of an avalanche.

...what she originally viewed as some surface communication issues that could be dealt with are now clearly much, much deeper issues with us both that may or may not be resolvable.

Did you want to tell us about any of those? No worries if not, I can appreciate wanting to keep some things confidential. Just wondered if other folks might have had similar issues that they've successfully resolved, and might be able to share with you how they did it.

I'm very comfortable with her and have never had the sense that her goal is anything but to see us in a strong, satisfying marriage long term.

Oh good to hear. Sometimes it's tough to get the full drift when you're just reading what someone's written. Good to hear too, that you're both getting some individual time with her. Perhaps that's what's helping your H start to open up more.

Unfortunately, we do not have a strong base to refer back to. He is 51 and I am 43. We were together less than a year before we married and we are about to reach our 20th anniversary. I was fairly young and he was fairly set in his ways and it's been a struggle from the start; we were never a strong couple.

Hmm... you both are roughly same ages, and similar differences in ages, as we are! We're a little shy of you, and 6 years apart. We were together before marriage longer than that, but we've been together for 18 years. And, despite how long we were together before we got married, no we didn't have a strong base either. Classic avoiders; terrified of conflict so we never even discussed our differences. Nor did he EVER want to communicate about anything important or meaningful. Finally I never knew I had anything important or meaningful to say, let alone knew what the h*ll I felt or thought about anything. I'm amazed we've made it this far. But now, we are creating a new relationship; really now just starting to get to know the 'real' us. Not trying to be rah-rah ain't marriage grand. Just trying to let you know that it can be something completely different than you thought possible. Even with a crappy beginning.

His particular needs/quirks/weaknesses simply don't mesh with mine. Which is one of the things that I'm actually realizing now, mostly in terms of understanding myself and what I need and accepting that it simply may not be possible for my husband to meet those needs.

You may be surprised at the extent to which he's able to meet those needs, now that you're actively sharing them together and they're all out in the open. I know I was. Blown away in fact.

Doesn't make him a bad person, just a bad match for me and I for him. He just seems more willing to continue to settle than I am. Which I find sad, as well.

Sounds just like what I said to my therapist at my first appt. I too thought we were just a bad match. I believe my words to her were "I think I married the wrong man. Not a bad man - he's actually a very good, kind man. Just the wrong one for me.

What I struggle with is the idea of how much of his core self can I reasonable expect him to change to accommodate my core self?

Weird. This is like reading from my diary. Yes I asked myself this all the time. Be careful though, of the types of things you attribute to both his and your 'core selves' and the things you don't. If you get it wrong you may be making a terrible mistake. Trusting my therapist, I asked for changes in things I'd perceived for years, as my H's core self. And I've made changes in things I've ALWAYS perceived as my own core self. I though 'yah right' he's/I've been like this for years...he's/I'm not going to change. Not a chance. Boy was I wrong. I think that too rigid of a concept of core self can really mislead us. It causes us to not even consider the possibility of change in a relationship, much less find the bravery to ask for the changes. I think that successful relationships that allow for change; even require it. It's the only way we grow, learn and expand our worlds. It's when we're not allowed to change, or never asked for change within a relationship, that I think we get in trouble.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be preachy. And I don't really know you... the two of you may be dealing with entirely opposite things that we were. I'm just hoping you don't attribute things to his and your core self - and therefore perceive that it can never change - that in actuality aren't. I'm just hoping you can learn from my mistakes, if they apply.

It's a nice enough life, but it is a very, very lonely one. I am willing to work -- and work hard -- on both myself and my marriage, but truthfully, most of the work right now is finding a way to tolerate while I go about the work of just figuring out me. Fortunately, I've got at least four more years. ;-)

Yes, I can appreciate the loneliness. That's also one of the first things I told my therapist. And no, you don't have to settle for the life you're dissatisfied with now. And actually, I'd say that in my therapy that's what I did first - figure out me. You can't know what to ask for of a relationship, until you know 'you' so well that you know exactly what you want. Sounds like you're off to a great start. I know it's hard, but try to stay optimistic... it really can, despite your rough beginnings together, be the start of a great new phase in your marriage. I'm going to dodge your last questions, because this is getting a little long! Plus I'd better get to work - busy day ahead! Take care, FMY. From FMV. Lol. That is too funny.

[FindingMyVoice]

Oh! One more note, what's the 'four more years' about? Is that a mental timeline you've given yourself?

[FindingMyVoice]

Just a journal. Not so much a M problem, but an issue that has caused us M problems, and I fear, will continue to do so. A not-so-good day today. Low self esteem raises it's nasty head again, as a dear friend of mine; once my best friend in school, visits from out of town. She's the successful one - fabulous career with an equally fabulous paycheck; slim and pretty; beautiful kids, great attitude towards life; organized, together, confident. I'm well - everything but.

I can't stop comparing. And it's paralyzing me. I could barely work today; just felt like such a failure.

I've tried the whole 'count your blessings' thing; the listing your strengths objectively and in an uncritical way - it doesn't seem to help. I'd love to talk with my IC about it but she's out of town this month. This is really getting me down.

And the worst of it is, it makes me feel so down it drains me of the energy and motivation I need to be able to turn those areas of my life I'm dissatisfied with, around. I'm so stuck.

Thoughts, 2x4s, suggestions, any and all would be appreciated.