Ah, but then how many times have we read here that a person might seem quite enthusiastic about sex before marriage, or early in marriage, only to discover deeper feelings of ambivalence or aversion later on....
Thing is, she was enthusiastic about sex before we got married and I thought I had found the perfect match. She was inexperienced, having only been inside a guys pants once before me and still a virgin, but she seemed eager to learn and try new things. About 6 months before we got married, she suddenly lost interest in sex. At the time, she told me that she was feeling guilty about having sex outside of marriage and she convinced me it would be good for us to save it up for marriage. My gut told me to run, but I wrote it off as getting cold feet and soldiered on. We had sex one time during our 8 day honeymoon. I knew then that there was a problem but never figured out how to address it, and the few people I talked to about it blew it off as that's just the way females are, that was normal etc etc (turns out the two women I talked to about it were also LD, and the two men I talked to were having similar problems in their young marriages...neither is still married to their wives of that time). Right before our first was conceived, I almost left but then we got into a bad car accident at which time she said she wanted to ML more often. That lasted for a month or two until our first son was conceived (and before we had recovered from our injuries). It got a lot harder to leave just because the interest in sex wasn't there.
The panicky feeling seems to have become more pronounced over time, either that or she was really good at hiding it early on. I'm not sure she's ever had a full orgasm. She says she's never MB'd, and I believe that. Lately, she hasn't been allowing me to touch her parts, instead she gives me a BJ and then gets up. If questioned about it, she'll say she was doing it for me and "why does it always have to be tit for tat". It is hard to find desire for someone when you know that they don't want it for themselves.
I am a frequent lurker. I would post my sitch but its identical to cozyp828's so its easier for me just to read his thread.
I think I have learned a great deal from reading this forum - especially how I am largely at fault for getting myself into this situation and perpetuating it. I have looked at a couple of other message boards, and while some are more active, people come and go, there are no real long term threads and its difficult to separate the wheat from the chafe. There is truly some potentially disastrous advice out there, so I really value the more in depth analysis that is evident here.
....She says she's never MB'd, and I believe that.
.........Lately, she hasn't been allowing me to touch her parts,
....instead she gives me a BJ and then gets up.
....It is hard to find desire for someone when you know that they don't want it for themselves.
First of all try to find a board certified sex therapist that you and your wife can go to for counseling.
Your wife probably has some sex inhibitions and body/image issues. She needs help in resolving those and you need help in learn which you can live with and which you can't live with and communicating that to her.
While mutually satisfying each others is an important part of bonding, in some ways you might want to reduce the emotional pressure you are putting on your wife, until you really understand WHY she doesn't want you to bring her to orgasm or why she doesn't want sex certain ways. My wife has never and will never give me a BJ. She use to tell me that she would later in our marriage and for decades she told me she was saving that form of sex to keep things hot. Well we are both in our 60's and have been married for almost 39 year, so I have concluded that it aint going to happen in this lifetime. I envy you in that respect. I really envy you!
My wife has also said she has never MB'd and I believe my wife. It is usually a sign of sexual issues in a woman. If more couples contemplating marriage engaged in mutual MB'ing, they would have a much better idea of who they were marrying. It should almost be a requirement to get a marriage license from what I have read.
A sex therapist will help your wife with educational material and exercises (things to practice on) that may help her open up sexually to you. The think that surprised me the most was that most of my wifes inhibitions were her issues and while I felt that it was a sign of her not loving me, it was really a sign of her not loving herself or parts of herself. It really isn't about you, it is about her and you need to be supportive of her if you want her to change.
As unsatisfied as you are, you might want to ask yourself if you glass is half empty or half full and then concentrate on the fullness of your married life. There are lots of guys would would give a lot for a regular BJ from a woman who loves them. There are a lot of people on this forum who have not had any form of sex with their spouse for months, years or decades. Your wife is trying and she cares for you and is thinking of your needs, but something is interfering with her ability to recieve sex in ways or at times that you want.
When I touch my "wife's parts" (as you pharsed it, i.e. foreplay) about half the time, my wife stops me when she is aroused and lubricated enough to have intercourse, then she will role me over and either climb on me or more often pull me on top of her. Much of the time she really doesn't want to orgasm, she just wants to feel like she is a woman, feel desired by me, feel close to me, and have me snuggle against her and cuddle her. The emotional part of ML is much more important to my wife than the orgasmic relief.
The other portion of the time she enjoys real solid orgasms and the associated release. I feel that part of how we drifted into a sex starved marriage was because we only engaged in sex when she was in need of orgasmic relief, we were both rested, we were both in bed at the same time, there were no kids in the house or there would be no way they could wake up, and she had not mental diversions (things worry about at work, chores she needed to not forget at home, bills that needed to be paid, etc.).
At times I have felt the same thing you are talking about when my wife stops me from bringing her to orgasm, but in healing from an SSM, those extra ML sessions were critical to re-establishing our relationship with each other and my love for her. I now know that she loves me and is working to make our marriage work and give me what I need in our marriage. I also know how horrible our marriage was for me when the frequency of ML was so much lower. I now count my blessing and look at my glass as half full, even if nearly half the time she doesn't want me to bring her to orgasm. I have learned for it to be enough for me that in touching and arousing her that I am providing her pleasure and that she is rejoicing in our being physically together and in her bringing me to my orgasm. I have heard/read other women comment about how having an orgasm for them is not as big a deal as feeling like a woman and being emotionally loved by their man. I still like the concepts in the book She comes First, but I have learned to live with what makes my wife feel good. Actually I have learned to love it and love her for it.
Maybe there are other ways for you to find "desire" in your wife. Is there role playing that the two of you can do that might not result in both of you having ograsmc sex (other than a BJ or HJ for you)? Teasing, tempting and power exchanges can be very hot and build desire.
Can the two of you work on developing say a foot fetish or something that will get you to desire her in a way that she also really enjoys? Is there clothing she can wear while you are naked that will allow her to feel more free and less self conscious? Can you substitute massaging her back, buttocks or feet and focusing on pleasuring her in non-sexual ways or do you need to see her orgasm? My wife positively loves foot massages and she also loves it when I do acts of devotion, like bring he coffee in the morning while she is still in bed or fill her car with gasoline or wash her car. She has told me that those acts of devotion are foreplay for her.
If you need to bring you wife to orgasm to feel good about your self or your marriage what is that saying about you? What makes this a requirement for you and is it something that you can work on changing in a way that brings the two of your closer?
While I think that your feelings are pretty normal, marriage requires a lot of compromise by both partners. As Dr. Schnarch says marriage stretches and grows the best in you, if you are lucky. Her sexual rigidity might not be either as rigid as you imagine or the deal killer that you think it is if, the two of you can redefine ML boundaries. Similarly, based on my experience, a sex theapist could really help you and your wife figure things out and move forward.
Good luck to you and and your marriage.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
I am a frequent lurker. I would post my sitch but its identical to cozyp828's so its easier for me just to read his thread.
Go a head and be brave and open a thread for your very own. I found that posting my thoughts and posting my problems was great therapy, even if I didn't get any advice. More times than not, I got advice and it was good advice and leasons that other people had learned the hard way. I also got a lot of moral support and kindness from others.
Again, go a head and post your sitch as it will probably provide you with a lot more benefits than you think. It does require you to be a little cautious in how much you tell and how secret you keep your identity, but I found that the interaction really helps the healing process.
Good luck to you.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
Thanks YAH. This actually is helpful. I think part of the reason I place such importance on her O is that she kind of skips over the foreplay leading me to feel she is "hurry up and get it done" I'm not feeling her desire to be sexual with me, rather she seems to exhibit an OK, lets take care of you.
Her body image is, I am sure, a part of it. She's about 60 lbs heavier than she feels she should be, and feels largely incompetent because she feels like she isn't doing anything right. Shes in individual counseling and has been for about 2 years. It has helped a little, but I think not as much as she thought it would. Right now, she is not open to going to a different counselor (i.e. for sex therapy). I do think we need some joint counseling, me because I am having a hard time identifying my part in all this. I know from here that it isn't all her.
If you think counseling would help, you might really want to consider (at least) going by yourself at first. If it helps you, it might inspire her . . . but if it doesn't, at least it helped you.
Her body image is, I am sure, a part of it. She's about 60 lbs heavier than she feels she should be, and feels largely incompetent because she feels like she isn't doing anything right.
One of my favorite Dr. Laura episodes was when a woman called in and told Dr. Laura that her husband was overweight and wanted to loose weight. She said that she figured out a way to motivate her husband. She told him that for every 5 pounds he lost he could choose another "outfit" for her to wear in the bedroom. He positively was driven to loose weight after that.
In a similar vein I have talked to my wife and asked if there was any kind of "reward" I could provide her like a pedicure, wardrobe, or special weekend at a local downtown hotel. So far she has resisted the offer for rewards, but when I notice she has lost weight or dropped a dress size, I suggest we celebrate in some way.
You might see what you can do to help support your wife in her weight loss goals.
>43 years of marriage--My wife and I are now closer than we have been in decades. I believe that my SSM is over.
I know I haven't been in a while. Several reasons:
1 - Insanely busy life. 2 - I only want to come here when DH is not nearby - I don't want him to see me on here. 3 - Sometimes I feel like all I do is complain, and don't contribute much help for others. That makes me feel like I shouldn't come here. 4 - The best reason! - During the month of August, we had sex 3 times! For us, this is progress! (and it's gotten better, too [naughty grin])
