Albuquerque living part 2: Road to recovery?

[Albuquerque]

Decided to start a new thread because the old one was getting a little large and also, I think I may be entering a new stage. Links to my previous threads are here

Thread 1

Thread 2

So this weekend, H seemed a bit more withdrawn. Still emailed and texted but it seemed a little more reserved. He knew he was invited to a pumpkin festival on Saturday but never contacted us about it. D and I went regardless and had a good time. I knew he needed his space and didn't waste time fretting about it. He called on Sunday evening and we video chatted for a bit. He told me his next IC appt was on Monday.

Monday was a typical Monday for us. D has her martial arts class and then we always go together for a sushi dinner. During dinner, H mentioned that his therapy appt was very interesting. I said interesting good? He said it was interesting and that he'd talk to me later since D was there. Dinner was good and he and D had a long conversation post dinner. D has a lot of apathy towards school and H reached an agreement with her (this was out of my earshot at the time) that if she did well, we would go on a trip in the summer. She agreed and they shook on it. When I came back, H told me their agreement. Despite my best attempts, I couldn't help but end up tearing up when he said that. That seemed to concern him a lot and I told him not to worry about it. I knew why I teared up but didn't feel like it was a good time to mention it since D was there.

Once at home H asked if he could call. We discussed my tearing up briefly. I told him that for the longest time, I have refrained from thinking too far in the future. I have been living life one day at at time never knowing what the future might hold. Him talking about summer plans was a bit jarring because I'm no longer accustomed to thinking that far ahead. I didn't mention this to him, but his statement was also jarring because his statement implied togetherness. H said he understood and went on to describe his therapy session. He said it was good because he really felt like he came to grips with a lot of things. He realizes he has issues with being happy and realizes that it has mostly to do with him and seeking external validation (he's been reading the DB book). He said that in discussing with his therapist, he really took a good hard look at what he would need in his life to be happy. And that he's decided that he wants to make us work. We briefly discussed some of his workoholic issues and how those would need to be addressed. While he agrees that he has work to do on himself, he said that both he and his therapist agree that some of those issues would be better tackled with him back in the home rather than delay that any further. The issue of his workaholicism for example, would be easier for him to resolve if he actually had an easily accessible family for him to spend time with.

I told him that I couldn't disagree with any of his points, however, there was the very obvious problem of a midwestern OW. Laughably, he told me not to worry about that. In fact, when he said it, I DID laugh out loud because that's so NOT easy to not worry about. But he continued. He said that he knows that that R needs to be killed dead before we can move on. He said that currently, the R is in limbo and he can't leave it hanging any longer and that it wasn't fair to her. I agreed. He said that in therapy they had discussed the fact that he has difficulty upsetting people or hurting people. But that he realizes this situation mandated hurting someone and that he was going to have to deal with that.

The conversation was interesting for several reasons. Although he's clearly been coming towards me recently, he had NEVER said he was coming back to me. Until now. And although I initially thought he had implied he was getting rid of OW several weeks ago, I later realized he had NEVER really said that. Until now. And more importantly to me, he did not seem the least bit conflicted. He seemed calm, non-confused and at peace with his decision. I have no doubt dealing with the OW will be difficult. While at times I feel like saying "You get what you deserve by sleeping with a married man", at the same time I KNOW the pain and hurt that she will feel since I've felt it myself. And I'm sure there will be some pain and hurt that my H will feel. But what we pretty much decided is that I will give H the time he needs. When he's wrapped up the loose ends in the midwest, there is no reason to delay him moving back. We had discussed previously having him move into a spare bedroom for awhile. But since we've already done the do and still have a smoldering attraction to one another, I think we'll probably skip that step. But I did mention to him that we might want to keep a room available for him as his "man cave" in case he ever feels like he needs some "alone time". I don't know whether we'll do that or not.

I always thought that if this discussion happened I'd be elated and through the roof. And I'm certainly happy, don't get me wrong. But it's taken many little steps to get here. I think we LBS often fantasize about the day our WS comes back to us, apologizes for everything, asks for forgivneness, proclaims their love etc all in on romantic swoop. But that's not reality. I realize that there is still a lot of work ahead. I'm still not even convinced that he is moving back yet until I see it happen. OW is still around and his detachment from her may be more difficult than he expects. I don't know how long it will take for him to tie up his loose ends. I'll continue moving forward as I have in the past.

[MHL]

Al,
I am glad things seem to be progressing in the right direction for you and your husband. He seems to be coming to some realizations about himself and his happiness.

Sounds alot like the work we do on ourselves doesn't it.

Your patience is extraordinary and you are right about what reconciliation may really look like. There may not be this cathartic apology and vows of undying love, but I do think there needs to be true remorse.

I am pretty sure it was Jack that said he would be leary of any reconciliation without true remorse.

In your situation, I know your H has expressed some remorse however he is still technically having an affair and until he completely ends it and expresses remorse about it I would be a little suspect.

You are doing great!!!

Cheers

[ericmsant2]

Alb

You are doing great!!!

Ditto.

[Albuquerque]

Update,

This last week, H has been a lot more out of touch than he has been the last month. He had planned to be out of town Thursday through Sunday at a town a few hours away for his job. I knew he was leaving town Wednesday evening. Other than a very brief text on Wednesday morning I didn't hear from him at all. I admit, it concerned me slightly since I had sent him an email asking him to call when possible because I had an insurance issue I needed to discuss with him. Since he had said on Monday that he planned to end his R with the OW, I had to wonder if that was finally happening. By Thursday morning I was still concerned but refrained from contacting him. Late Thursday morning he called me and sounded OK but frazzled. He said that the previous day had been very bad from an anxiety standpoint and he had to take several drugs to keep himself OK and I guess he didn't want to talk. I didn't ask if there was a reason. We chatted for a few more minutes as he drove in to the office and got caught up with a few things but then he had to go. Again, I heard nothing from him the whole day. I texted him once in the evening, just asking how he was doing, and got no response. Friday was much the same. I got a brief text in the morning but didn't hear a whole lot more. Friday afternoon, we managed to chat for a bit longer and he sounded better, although he mentioned that he really needed a Xanax refill. He was on his way to dinner with coworkers but said he would catch up with me at some point and discuss the craziness of the previous days. Not completely sure what that means. Conjecture is pretty much pointless, but I can't help myself from hoping that it means he had to tell the OW goodbye. I guess time will tell.

As for me, things are still good. Still progressing in my pole dancing classes and loving it. H continues to be intrigued by my descriptions but I haven't felt he deserved to have any sort of private performance yet. D and I tried our hands at skeet shooting today. D tried to back out at the last minute because the rifle was a bit scary looking, but I kind of forced the issue and am glad I did. She ended up doing much better than me and I thought it was a fun adventure. This weekend we'll be gearing up for a camping trip we have planned next weekend. In addition, unbeknownst to H, I bought 2 tickets to a concert in a few weeks being put on by one of his favorite guitarists. I've already arranged to have D spend the night at her friends house so that we have no childcare issues and can spend a quiet night alone together. It's in about a month so I'm hoping H will wrap everything up with OW by then and this "date" can actually take place. If not, then I figured I'd sell the tickets and still enjoy a night without D and do something fun. I'm certainly hoping for the first option.

[Albuquerque]

Journaling,

So today was our usual sushi dinner night. Haven't seen H since last week. He seemed OK but also seemed to have pulled back a bit slightly. Not a major shift but noticeable. Dinner was OK and he talked with D a lot about some of her school issues. As we were saying goodbye I asked if he wanted me to call him later. He'd told me several times that he needed to talk to me about the craziness of the weekend. He said I could if I wanted to but that there wasn't really anything to tell. It was just that he had run out of Xanax. I said OK and D and I went home.

Once at home, I texted him to let him know that if there wasn't anything, I wouldn't bother calling and that I had only mentioned it since he had said several times that he wanted to tell me about the weekend. Again, he said there wasn't much to tell other than he felt like he was actually going through Xanax withdrawls since he had run out on Wednesday and his doctors office screwed up his refills and he wasn't able to get any more until today. He said at the time, it felt like it was more of a story than it actually was. THEN he says that he got to thinking that perhaps some of the "stuff" (apart from actual sex) might be damaging in its own way. I didn't really know what he meant by that and thought about asking for clarification, but decided it didn't matter. I just asked "is it?" He said "I think so to some degree". So I told him to "do what he needs to do" and to let me know if I'm doing something "damaging". He said "I know. Thank you "

So I really don't know what the hell he was talking about. I'm guessing maybe the occasional smooching and flirting via text/online? I figured it didn't matter since I'll continue to let him take the lead on what he wants to do. I'm thankful that I've not told anyone about his statement last week that he wants to move back in. I have to wonder if he's not rethinking that. I don't know that he's reverted THAT far, but things are certainly going a lot slower than I think even he was planning. I'm glad I haven't really made ANY presumptions about that and am continuing on as previously planned. I also can't make any presumptions about the OW but without any evidence to the contrary, I have to assume she's still in the picture.

The rollercoaster ride continues.

[TAMF]

it reminds me of a facet...cold and hot...off and on.

we never know what to expect from day to day.

I know that you are still focusing on you and D, which is the most important.

try not to get too frustrated and brush it off. Just think how frustrating it is for us and we are sane. The emotions they must all be going through would be horrible to experience.

SMILE and HUGS sent your way!

[Albuquerque]

Thanks TAMF,

The stress of this all is definitely getting to me. My tension headaches are back again. H asked how I was doing and I mentioned my headaches. He joked that it couldn't be because of the sex. I just told him I was stressed in general and needed to stop thinking so much. He asked if talking would help (we were texting). I told him I wasn't sure and admitted to him that when he was gone (emotionally), things, in a weird way, were a little easier since I knew what to expect. Now things are very nebulous and that goes against my grain and as a result, it's stressing me out. But I also added that it was my problem, not his. He responded with a simple "Ahh". In a way, it was good to at least get that off my chest.
I admit this has not been easy. I've been trying my best to keep my focus on me and D. But since H has stated he plans to make all these changes, I can't help but think about them and wonder if and when he'll be making them. I'm back to wondering if my holidays will be with him IN the house or still in his apartment. Clearly, this line of thinking is not healthy for me. At the same time, living "as if" he's not moving back seems counter-intuitive since he's stated he plans to. ARGH. Frustrating to say the least. But you are absolutely right TAMF. As frustrating as it is for me, I know its 10 times so for him. I will strive to keep my self occupied so I don't have a lot of time for thinking. That'll probably be the best thing for me right now.

[Albuquerque]

Update,

I guess my stress issues kind of worried H a bit. He texted me several times last night about my stress and then asked me to call him after D had gone to bed. The conversation was very helpful for me.
He explained that he had seen so many changes in me and wanted to make similar changes for himself. But he worried that by moving too fast, he might use me as a crutch for some of his issues and not truly tackle them. I agreed that was a valid concern but also stated that since I am a different person, the R HAS to change. I won't accept things the way they were before. I guess his fear is that if we get too close too quick, it may inhibit his own personal growth. I see his point and told him so, but also don't feel those are mutually exclusive things. He feels that since I needed to be alone in order to change, so does he. I said that my changes were certainly brought on BECAUSE of the situation, but it's VERY possible to change while IN a relationship. It was hard discussing this while trying NOT to seem like I was telling/begging him to come back. I truly believe that he can acheive the growth he desires while working on us, but HE needs to believe that.
He did shed some light on the OW issue. He had been visiting the midwest once a month. He said that he'd cancelled his October visit because of all the turmoil going on and that he just got let them know there wouldn't be a November trip. He really does have valid work reasons for going as well as the OW. So I guess that R is totally on the rocks. He said that he tried to broach the separation subject with OW on Saturday but since he was so screwed up in the head due to Xanax withdrawls and heavy stress, it didn't go well and I guess didn't end up happening. It pleased me greatly though to hear that he's at least making the attempt, albeit a failed one.
I guess with all the weirdness coming from him, it was screwing with my head and making me question a lot of things. In talking with him, none of his thought processes have really changed. It's just going to be VERY difficult for him to break it off with OW because by his own admission, he's a softy and doesn't like to hurt anyone. There will definitely be hurt involved since she was considering him marrying material.
The sex issue came up again. My issue against it was that at the time, he was still indecisive about the OW. Now that he's not, I'm feeling much better about it (but still cautious). We talked until around 1 and then he said goodnight. But then we continued to text until around 2 am, primarily about sex stuff. Not surprisingly, he ended up coming over to the house around 2 and we got it on. I admit I was a bit reticent but since I knew he was moving foward on cutting ties with OW, I ended up saying "screw it". This is my H and as long as I continue to see forward momentum, I don't want this to not be part of our R. He left afterwards so that there wouldn't be weirdness with D in the morning, so that kind of sucked. But despite only having a few hours sleep, I feel really really good today. I'm OK with my decision and have a better understanding of his current thinking.

In talking with him briefly before he left last night, I could see that my sex position was still confusing him. So this morning, I sent a brief email and tried to clarify my thinking (which admittedly is not always grounded in sanity). I told him that my initial issue was having sex with someone who in his mind, had not decided between me and OW. Now that he has, that mental block is lessened significantly and I feel I can move forward. Granted, if two months from now, he's still "trying to break it off" I'll be a lot less OK. So it'll be a daily evaluation I suppose. I realize it cannot and should not be rushed. But I did let him know that it should not surprise him that the OW is my biggest mental obstacle in moving forward with our R.

This whole thing is totally confusing. I'm not really sure what the best approach is in terms of moving the R forward. But I know that step 1 is officially getting rid of the OW once and for all. I will continue to watch and observe for forward progress on that front. As for me, I feel much better having had some things clarified.

[TAMF]

You dirty little girl! sextexting until 2am and then you got him so worked up he had to rush over! He-He! Don't care what is right or wrong, good or bad...that had to be exciting. Nothing wrong with a little spice in YOUR life.

I hope he moves on ending the OW sitch soon...I will say a little prayer.

Try not to go crazy! talk to you soon.

[Albuquerque]

Update,

So had a loooong talk with H last night. He seemed ready to talk and talk and talk about everything. Turns out he actually DID end things with OW last weekend. He was still pretty messed up due to his Xanax withdrawals even when I talked to him on Tuesday, so he left me with the impression that he tried but failed. He knows he left me with that impression and didn't do anything to correct it till now. This is what he told her.

He said he told her that it basically came down to a decision between her and D. And that unless he was at home involved in D’s life on a day to day basis, he knew his relationship with D would be dysfunctional and that he wasn't willing to do that. He said that she was understandably upset and tried to meet him halfway on some things. Turns out (much to my dismay), she's moving BACK to our state (probably within an hour or two from us) early next year. She was originally from here which is where H originally met her as friends. So she was trying to talk about a way of continuing with H with her being close by. H said he made it clear that would not work but expects some aftershocks.

I admit, hearing him say that was a bit of a slap in the face. Hearing that in a way, I played no part in the decision wasn't what I was wanting to hear. So I was a bit taken aback and introspective. When he asked what I was thinking, I was honest and said that hearing that the decision had nothing to do with me was a bit disturbing. He said that he could see that. But, he said, that was more for the sake of the OW. He really DOES want to fix his R with D. But he felt that by keeping me out of the mix, it made it harder for her to have a good "comeback" so to speak. When it came to a decision between her and D, D would always win. He reiterated that he had seen tremendous changes in me and that he was VERY happy with me and would not have decided this if he felt we’d go back to the marriage the way it once was.

He offered to answer any questions I had. I really didn’t have many. The main one was whether she would be attending the annual conference his job puts on each year in January. She attended last year and years prior and that’s how they initially met. He said that she had already stated that if she wasn’t going to be going WITH him out in the open then she wouldn’t be going. But since she already asked for time off, she may use that time to come back to this state and look for a place to live. I guess her STBX will also need to move back to facilitate custody of their son so it’s more up to him what town they end up moving to. He told me that once things settle down, he would like to be able to go out to lunch every so often with her. I told him in no uncertain terms that I had a HUGE problem with that. He asked if I felt that all contact needs to be cut off. I said yes and asked whether he understood why I might feel that way. He kind of did but seemed less than certain. So more angst for me. I’ll take it one day at a time and certainly can’t start stressing about what the future situation will be. But so far, this isn’t turning out well.

So I ended up very introspective and unsure. Was this really the R I wanted? Can I even truly believe what H is telling me? When he poked his head out of the fog, he said the factor that made him wake up had to do with the changes in ME. So I think I’ll take advantage of the mantras MLC=confusion and believe none of what they say and 50% of what they do. All his actions indicated he was coming back for me (and D as well don’t get me wrong). So to hear him talk differently has got me really questioning a lot. He hasn’t said anything negative about OW and I know (because he said so) he genuinely feels bad about the whole situation. I can understand that. But he also said that he doesn’t really feel like he did anything wrong. He’s apologized for all the craziness over the last year, but he doesn’t feel bad about this because in his mind he was done. As delicately as I could, I told him that that perspective bothers me and I absolutely disagree. He was still married. Hell, much to my surprise SHE was still married (but much further along in her divorce). And she KNEW he was still married. And I also mentioned that if he felt what he was doing was OK, he would have been more up front and honest to people like his mother. But he wasn’t. He didn’t really say much.

Our conversation kind of slowly died off as it got late and we both fell asleep. (yes this conversation took place in bed but no hanky panky). But prior to falling asleep, I kept asking myself if I was being fair to myself. What about this is bothering me? The fact that he hasn’t really picked me over the OW? Because he has. But he kind of didn’t. But the end result is the same and he genuinely says he is very happy with me. Hasn’t said ILY or mentioned the L word. But seems genuine in wanting to make it work. He realizes HE has a lot of work to do and seems genuine about doing it.

But then there are these facts. He doesn’t hate OW. In fact, I know he still has feelings for her and she for him. He ended it because he knew his choice in the direction of his life eliminated the possibility of moving forward with her. But he didn’t really WANT to leave her. The situation kind of forced his hand. So now finding out that she will be moving close by, and knowing that piecing our M back together will be fraught with obstacles, I’m very concerned that he could easily go back to her at some point. But then, I also know that fretting over these types of “possibilities” is absolutely pointless.

So then when he texts me this afternoon and tells me that his company wants to send him to DC for a conference, it kind of broke a fuse inside my head. I didn’t respond badly, just asked some questions about when and stuff. But I guess he detected my aloofness. He asked if it was OK with me if he went because if not, he could have a coworker go. Fortunately, I was on my lunch break at this point because I had a minor meltdown. All the pain and insecurities dealing with the OW came flooding back. I honestly did not know what to tell him. On the one hand, I absolutely don’t feel comfortable with him going. Why? Because I can’t rule out an OW meetup. Plain and simple. On the other hand, I can’t keep eagle eyes on him all the time. At some point, I have to learn to trust again. This just feels too quick.

Then there’s the other aspect. Why is he asking me? He hasn’t moved back yet. Until he does, I don’t know that I feel like we have a real R yet. And I guess I feel like I don’t feel I should factor into the decisions he makes. But on the other hand, we ARE married, he DOES want to come back and IS showing concern for my feelings. But then I realize my feelings are being kind of out of whack. So my mind ended up spinning and spinning. In the end, I bluntly told him that I didn’t know what to say and that I needed to work on me a bit more. He realized he had hit a nerve and tried to apologize. I told him he hadn’t done anything wrong.

So H wants me to call tonight and discuss this. I think he’s gotten used to seeing me be strong and OK with everything. Just because I can compartmentalize the pain and betrayal doesn’t mean it’s not still there. Now that R is on the table and these issues are coming up, these closed doors are starting to pop open and I realize I am unprepared. I will be as honest as I can with him. I don’t know the right answers to these feelings. For the first time in a long time, I feel I need to go back to IC or maybe discuss starting MC with H.

I certainly welcome some feedback on this. I think the biggest thing that is eating at me is I don’t feel like H chose me. I feel like I was the lucky winner of a coin toss. Insecurities? You betcha. The need for growth never stops.