Thanks Figgeroni. I think the questions of what was missing that caused the affair may be a long way away. We are not at a point where the two of us are discussing her sexual orientation struggles. Right now, that is what she is working with her personal therapist about.
Right now if I asked her what she needed, I am not sure she would have an answer for me. As far as the same sex situation, the only thing I have been able to get out of her is "I am really confused right now and that is why I am seeing my therapist".
From what I have learned about a woman's sexual identity is that it is very complex with many layers. Her therapist has used the word "fluid". I have also read other doctors call it "flexible" or even "plastic". Is my wife a lesbian who has always had desires for women and there is no possible way for me to meet those needs that were missing? I think that is possible. The affair lasted 10 months. I think that is a pretty long time (that could have lasted longer) for a curiosity. If this is the case, and she is just talking through her emotional struggles to come out of the closet, I am not sure I have a chance to salvage our marriage.
Is it possible that there were in fact serious emotional needs that were not being met? Where I thought our relationship was strong, she began to feel detached? Could the hormones of pregnancy or the lacking emotional needs during pregnancy could have been a factor? I think all of these factors could have been missed queues by me. If they were, I think we have a chance to save our marriage. It will take hard work which I am completely invested in. Will she?
Until that time comes, I am in a very unstable position. I can keep my head up, be strong, take care of my self, co-parent like a champ, work on rebuilding trust and repair our relationship. I am just not sure the path MWD gives post affair really works for me, because I am not sure my wife is TRULY in it to save our marriage. Has the affair ended? I hope so. It seems to be that way. But are we separated right now, yes. She has not fully moved out, but she is living with her brother down the street.
It is all so confusing. I am not here to be self righteous. That is not my intent. I truly want to get on the same level with my wife and communicate through this and stay on the same level forever. I want to understand her needs and learn to address them. I want to be a good listener and validate her. I want to work on our communication. So please do not take my attitude as a "look at me and how great I am in the face of struggle". That is not me. I am just trying to be patient and keep my composure, compassion, and love for my wife to make it through these days.
The "big unknown" is out there, though. It makes it difficult on how to really approach us. It makes our couple's therapy sessions a little one sided sometimes. Lots of me providing for my wife and telling her how I will be patient and work on us. Not much real response from her except thanking me for being patient and agreeing that it is important for us to be on the same page with our son.
I think our next session will begin with me sincerely apologizing for betraying her in the form of telling my family of the affair and also breaking the privacy of her email. Words are easy, though. How do I really show her my sincerity?
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
The mods used to just lock the threads when they reached a certain point and you would wake up, like you did, and have to start a new one. Now they like us to monitor our own (100 posts and start a new one) but if we don't they will lock. No biggie...
The self righteous thing came across to me as well. I think a big part of it(and I can't speak for Fig or others) is your often said "someone else would have been gone already and I am still here"... coupled with the who's deceit was bigger question...
You are here because you want to work on your M. So what if other people would walk...That would be their choice.
While I agree that you W's sexual orientation questions make it hard to figure out what your W needed and definately make the thoughts of reconciliation hard at this point...
There are things that you can and should look at...
Things that will help you in the future with this R if it reconciles, or in another...
Right now, this isn't a cooperative situation on the reconciliation front, but there ARE things that you can do, that will make reconciliation easier if it happens.
And believe me, the hormones, may have a role to play in how deeply your wife feels certain things, but they don't CAUSE her to feel those feelings.
What were/are your communication skills like? Did you listen and actually hear your W when she talked?
Did you pay attention to her after work, even for a half hour, or were you playing video games, working out, mowing the yard, etc...
Did you do things together that were fun, or did you just sit around the house doing nothing? And did you plan or help plan those activities?
Sexually, did you cuddle and snuggle and have lots of forplay, making her feel special and loved, or was it just about getting the job done?
How did you change from the man that she met and married, into the man that she is now married to?
Just some thoughts...
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
The self righteous thing came across to me as well. I think a big part of it(and I can't speak for Fig or others) is your often said "someone else would have been gone already and I am still here"... coupled with the who's deceit was bigger question...
You are here because you want to work on your M. So what if other people would walk...That would be their choice.
Thanks again, cat, for the advice. I really do not want to come across as self righteous. I have so many emotions going through me right now. I am torn to shreds inside. This literally has been the most painful experience of my life. Maybe I just can't believe that I have had the ability to fight for my marriage after a situation like this. I was wrong to say others would have bailed. I don't know any others, and I shouldn't care less if they would or not.
I love my wife incredibly, so I am doing everything in my power to listen to good, positive advice and move towards saving my marriage.
Originally Posted By: cat04
While I agree that you W's sexual orientation questions make it hard to figure out what your W needed and definately make the thoughts of reconciliation hard at this point...
There are things that you can and should look at...
Things that will help you in the future with this R if it reconciles, or in another...
Right now, this isn't a cooperative situation on the reconciliation front, but there ARE things that you can do, that will make reconciliation easier if it happens.
And believe me, the hormones, may have a role to play in how deeply your wife feels certain things, but they don't CAUSE her to feel those feelings.
What were/are your communication skills like? Did you listen and actually hear your W when she talked?
Did you pay attention to her after work, even for a half hour, or were you playing video games, working out, mowing the yard, etc...
Did you do things together that were fun, or did you just sit around the house doing nothing? And did you plan or help plan those activities?
Sexually, did you cuddle and snuggle and have lots of forplay, making her feel special and loved, or was it just about getting the job done?
How did you change from the man that she met and married, into the man that she is now married to?
Just some thoughts...
Those are the types of things that I have to consider. I was told while it is okay to analyze what needs were not met that allowed the affair to occur, I cannot feel at fault that it happened.
I think these emotional needs not being met and our overall lack of good communication skills were a primary area of concern. My wife and I talked tonight a little bit. She mentioned that we have always had poor communication skills the five years together. She felt that she felt that maybe after five years, it was her braking point.
I asked if these feelings she had maybe made her in a position of vulnerability to act on the affair. She said that she does not know. She said that she was frustrated. This was during the same time she met the OW and they started to become friends.
I tried to remind my wife that the communication failures that we were having was the reason that we started going to couples therapy last Spring. We went with the agreed intention that our marriage was not in crisis, but that we wanted to strengthen our communication in preparation for our upcoming child. I thought the therapy was going great. We fought less. We used the skills taught to us. My wife later told me that things appeared okay, because she just stopped caring. It wasn't until later, that I discovered the affair began near the beginning of our couples therapy sessions.
So to answer your question, yes I do think there were things that I was failing to do that could have led to some kind of vulnerability. I am desperate to find them out in our current couples therapy and remedy them if possible. I have learned more in the last 2 months about positive relationship habits by reading books, seeing a good therapist, and hearing the advice of this board. I am ready to approach our marriage with the nurture it requires. I just hope my wife gives me the chance.
She mentioned tonight that stopping contact with the OW has not stopped her feelings towards her. She feels like that relationship is just shelved. Her therapist recommended no contact. I asked her tonight why she recommended that. She said that it was because I demanded it. I told her that my therapist mentioned that in order for my wife to discover her self, the OW had to be out of the picture. If she had same sex questions, how could she possibly address them from an outside prospective while deep in a same sex affair? I guess that also goes with every bit of advice that I have read. The affair must end cold turkey. What if the WS is still in love with OW? Will it just go away? If WS is having her own questions about her sexuality and not completely in reconciliation, does this mean the feelings for the OW could linger around longer? I guess these are all questions for my W to answer. I just do not see any positive way for me to save my marriage with the OW in contact. What do you think?
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
On a positive note, I have been picking up on the little things that my wife has been doing. I was told not to wait and wait for the big things but to take the little wins.
I just had received a job interview for a position I have been really pushing for for the last year. I sent her a text to tell her, and she returned with some very kind words of encouragement. She told me how proud she was of me. She asked if there was anything she could do to help me prepare. She told me that I was so capable of doing much more for my company.
I told her that I appreciated her kind words and that they meant a lot to me. I also thanked her for believing in me. She said that she always believed in me and what I have to offer.
Friday morning, I had to drop of my son on the way to work and my interview. She sent me another text on the way to work wishing me luck and said that she was confident that I would do great, She said that I looked very handsome and hoped I felt as confident as I looked.
Those were the most positive words I have received in some time and were enough to set my mood for the rest of the day and had a great interview.
On the way home, my wife called and asked if I wanted to pick her and my son up and go out to dinner. Of course! We had a great dinner out, she toasted me to a great interview, and shared dessert with a shared spoon.
It is times like this that give me hope. The little things. Our lives and relationship is in a very complex web right now, but words and actions like these are still capable of happening.
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
stopping the physical affair does NOT stop the emotional connection....that takes time...she might also always carry love for the other person....just as there are other people in my life that I have fond feelings for (my first boyfriend etc)
you will never be the end all be all for anyone nor should you be
stopping the physical affair does NOT stop the emotional connection....that takes time...she might also always carry love for the other person....just as there are other people in my life that I have fond feelings for (my first boyfriend etc)
you will never be the end all be all for anyone nor should you be
That makes perfect sense, Figg. Thank you. She just put me in a bit of a panic mode when she said said the words "shelve" her relationship with the OW. To me, I interpreted that as the OW will always be there in the end. Since the W was "forced" into the no contact, I think she feels like it is not forever. That worries me. I also worry that she is not making any further to make contact with her. I guess I will never know, and I have no impact on that. Nor should I ever mention to her that I am worried that she is seeing the OW.
Maybe she meant "shelve" the relationship with OW in case she discovers that she does indeed prefer women and will open that relationship back up as we go through divorce.
What scares me even further is that in one of the emails from last August (one week after my son was born), the OW wrote a very detailed letter to my W outlining a timeline for them. She wrote words of encouragement while telling my W that this will not be easy, but I will be there for you. To understand this email, you have to put yourself in a time machine back to August.
The OW stated that W needed to start crying to me and her mother now that she was unhappy in the marriage. W did that at the time, but everybody thought it was postpartum at the time. W would then return to work to make money (she never did). OW then said that on November 1, she would separate from me and move in with her. OW told my wife that it would be their trial to see if they could live together, but that my W should leave it open with me just in case it did not work between them. (This part did not really happen until the bomb was dropped in mid December). After the trial separation, my W would have to get her own place. Since she would not be making much money, the idea was to live in some low income apartment somewhere temporarily. This would put a fog over everything that there really was not an affair going on. After several months living in this apartment, W would then start working on divorce. Once everything was settled, they would move in together and live happily ever after. OW even said it was even easier for her to write, since she was already half way through this process with her own H. What is even more messed up, is that the OW talked about how they would need my help with finances to make it, since they would not make enough money together.
Me W's response to this email was that she was very scared and still very confused. She appreciated the thoughts, but everything was happening to fast. This email timeline was just too soon for her.
The reality is that I exposed the affair in the "trial living together phase". W was spending a few days a week at OW's place with the impression that she just needed space to figure herself out. I told her that I would remain patient. She would then come and spend a few days living on my couch while we co-parented.
What would have happened if I didn't expose the affair or discover the affair? Did me finding out just make their plan more complicated, but they are still on their way to making it happen? Is that what she meant be "shelving" Or is the OW really "shelved" as all would be while we truly worked towards getting back together?
These are the questions that boggle me. Right now, I have comfort knowing that she is living with her brother down the street,and I have my son half the time. After she picked up my S about an hour ago, I got a text message asking if I needing anything from the baby store that is on the other side of town (same side of town OW lives). It is also a Sunday, so I know OW is not working. My mind is going crazy, but there is nothing for me to do. I have to be patient and trust the process that we are going through in therapy.
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
Feeling a little anxious right now. W came by at 8:00 this morning to pick up our S and hung around until 11:00. That made me happy.
I mentioned in my last post about her being across town. I started doing a ton of work to get my mind of things. I called her back several hours later. She then said that she had gone back to her brother's for our son's nap, but she was now at Barnes and Noble near us with our S. I decided to head out and run some errands myself. Called her to ask about what size socks to get our S. She didn't answer but called back about 30 minutes later. When I asked what she was up to, she got defensive and said that felt like I was interrogating her. I told her that I did not want to do that to her and just wanted to see how her day was going.
It is days like this that really get my anxiety up. Since the putting the OW on "the shelve" as she mentioned yesterday, my mind is racing and now wondering if she is truly sticking to her word that there is no contact. I know that there is nothing I can do about it, but my wife knows the outcome is divorce if she carries on the affair.
Do I simply forget about it? My wife and I mentioned that our couples therapy is a safe zone for truth. Do I bring it up there and ask her to again assure me that there has been no contact , as her "shelf" comment made me concerned? I could use some help here. Based on the history and uncertainty of it all, I am so confused right now. Thanks!
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
sparks.... even if you were just trying to make small talk...it sounds a bit interrogating to me too
you talked to her for 3 hours in the morning then called two hours later and she told you she was at B&N then you called her again timed her response then asked her what she was doing AGAIN
back off buddy
your son's sock size should be easy to figure out since they give the month size on socks
I would take your wife at her word she continues to go to therapy with you
sparks.... even if you were just trying to make small talk...it sounds a bit interrogating to me too
you talked to her for 3 hours in the morning then called two hours later and she told you she was at B&N then you called her again timed her response then asked her what she was doing AGAIN
back off buddy
your son's sock size should be easy to figure out since they give the month size on socks
I would take your wife at her word she continues to go to therapy with you
that is a good thing
she stayed longer this morning
that is a good thing
don't push her
Thanks Figg. I need to back off. Just worried that she is keeping OW in her pocket. I just need to chill out. W and I talked just last night that her parents have really been at her asking her about her every move. Typically, my small talk has just been that. She mine was nice, but she has been feeling a bit pressured overall. It only changed today wih the OW worries.
As far as the socks, it is a long story, but our six month old is a chunk. Infant socks do not fit. My wife did call back to tell me that the only socks that fit are for 12-24 months. Little man has some very fat feet and ankles.
Thanks for the response. I have not been in a good place the last few days, and have gotten just a little response. Perhaps my posts are too long? Would it be better to be less long winded?
Thanks, again!
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
W has an appointment with her therapist this morning, so I am watching our S for a few at home.
As I have said in the past, these sessions give me anxiety. Maybe it is just the fear of the unknown. Not really sure if the therapist is really having my wife self analyze or if she s just helping her out of the closet. Since it is not my decision, I need to just breathe and rest on it. GAL.
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
