LBS needing advice...

[Augtan]

Wow Irish!! That is so sad! And, honestly one of the very reasons I moved my kids away from the "crazytown" we lived in. It was just too much and so unfair to them to have to deal with that kind of stuff. I hate that they don't have their dad in their lives and am not sure I made the right choice, but when I think of those types of things happening I think I might of. But, your S sounds very strong and will only get stronger from that stuff, life isn't fair and we don't get to chose our parents. I have felt several times today that I wish I had picked a better dad for my kids, but I didn't and have to help my kids live with that and learn from it.

Antonia...thanks sooo much for that!! I feel the exact same way about my relationship with my XH when it you talked about "Because I'm afraid that if I can't have him, I can't have anyone. I either "fix" him or I "fix" the broken marriage or I'm "doomed" to being single forever." I hate being alone, I loved being married and I sometimes feel I will never feel as whole or complete with anyone else no matter what, that XH is the only one for me and I will never have what I had with him with someone else, for so many reasons. It is silly cause I know people do it all the time, but I meant my vows and I hate the idea of starting over with someone else, it seems like such a long road ahead to have to do that, daunting at times and maybe not worth the effort.

A

[irishblessings]

Thanks Aug - in a strange way I am happy this has happened. I continue to romanticize how much better this OW must be. This was a good reality check for me. As for S - I think it was helpful to him that at tis point he can't really have a good kind of relationship with his Dad. He has just had a complete change of values and that frees S to keep a safe distance. I think S is just grateful to come home - and for that I am forever grateful.

As far as Antonia's description - it is DEAD ON!!!

[AntoniaB]

IB that really stinks but I applaud how very well you and your S handled it. You're very strong, both of you.

Augtan you said this, "I know people do it all the time, but I meant my vows and I hate the idea of starting over with someone else, it seems like such a long road ahead to have to do that, daunting at times and maybe not worth the effort."

And I've thought exactly the same thing--because I'm assuming that getting involved with someone else will A> Never happen, B> End in tragedy just like this marriage did. I have a terrible time thinking that me and XH were somehow "special" and "destined" to be together forever. Really, this is madness, because with free will, and a million other factors, we can never predict "forever."

I think that I am looking at my future in a really pessimistic way--maybe we all are in thinking we are doomed to be single forever. I mean, I have myself convinced that the way I met my XH, all the things that had to happen to put he and I in the same place at the same time, well that was some kind of magic that can't happen twice. But see I'm viewing that in retrospect. I think we romanticize how we end up with our spouses AFTER we're married and happy. We look back and think "oh this was a sign, and that was a bit of proof of destiny or fate." We link the dots and make this story out of it that is pure magic.

But in the moment it happens, we don't see it that way. So why can't any of us meet someone again FAR down the road? We can, if that's what we want/are ready for. Or we may choose not to if we end up becoming very comfortable with being single.

I think we were so codependent for so long on these marriages to really fulfill us that we lost sight that there are other ways we can be fulfilled. This whole experience is teaching us how to be fulfilled in other ways.

I think bottom line is that we're all still in a form of shock and with that lens, it's easy for us to fall into pessimism about the future and make these "all or nothing" statements. When the shock eventually wears off, I don't think we'll be in that place and we'll be able to be more realistic about our futures.

Let me share this with you because I know, IB, that you feel like you failed since you're moving towards a divorce. I joined a stitching cyberclass, and we had to introduce ourselves. I intro'd myself this way: "I'm a professor of English who specializes in fairy tales and adolescent literature. I am divorced and the single mom of 10 cats--7 of whom live indoors, one who is indoor/outdoor, and two who live outdoors. I love to read, to stitch, and I'm going to take up gardening again. Next year I'm going to be on sabbatical to write a book for which I have a contract."

I got a response back from someone in the UK who said "It sounds like you have a really wonderful life."

What was my response in my head? "No, I don't. You are mistaken. How can you say that? I'm divorced."

See? I can have a life that in many ways people covet it. And still, I feel like there is a black mark. I'm divorced. I failed.

Do you see my biggest emotional problem? Perfectionism.

And until I get rid of that problem, or learn to temper it, I won't contribute in the best way I can to a marriage with anyone.

I don't know if that helps you or not, but I thought I'd share it :-)

[Augtan]

Irish, I totally understand the OW stuff, I had this vision of how the OW was so much better than me, my friend who worked with XH and OW at the time I discovered the affair told me "if you saw OW you wouldn't think that anymore, you need to see her and you will feel sooo much better" See, I made XH tell me every detail about the A, which was a huge mistake, and he said to me "OW has a perfect body, model type body", well...I don't!! So, my friend made me see her, I had refused for months, but she finally conviced me, and it did help a lot!! She is one of the uglist women I have ever seen and I am not just saying that! She smoked too and my XH and I HATE smoking, I mean despised smoking, she had a cat, my XH hated cats, said we would never have one no matter what, and her body...yes, she is skinny, but very, very skinny, gross skinny, bag of bones skinny. YUCK, she is just beyond gross. And, all these women who sleep with married men are horrible people inside as well, they are morally bankrupt! They are losers who are willing to hide for a man who doesn't respect them at all.

You are very strong and your S is learning very valuable things that he shouldn't have to learn at such a young age, but that will hopefully help him become a better man. That he learns from your H's mistakes is all you can hope for cause the example these men are setting are not good ones at all.

Antonia, I again, agree with you 100%!! I have learned so much from all that has happened, but yet still at times feel like a complete failure and want to fix it all for that reason. I am the first person in my family to be divorced, on both sides..I have a couple of cousins that have been, but not anyone else. My parents have been married for 56 years!! I always wanted to be married and have kids, it was my dream, never was into having a career, just a great family to raise and a husband to love. I sat on the floor in my laundry room on Saturday night, bawling my eyes out begging God to give me my life back!! It was so awful!

I had a very long talk with my best friend (who is a man and was my high school boyfriend) last night, he knows me very well and knows everything about my life with XH. He said some very insightful things to me and it has helped me so much today. He is my biggest cheerleader and helped me feel very confident that I will find someone someday when I am not "looking" so to speak, and I agree. I just know right now isn't the time for that, as you said Antoina about yourself too, we just aren't in that place yet. I am raising three kids alone, two with some very serious issues that takes a lot of parenting and time, I just don't have the time or emotional energy to date someone right now, therefore, I believe God knows that and will introduce me to the right person when I am ready.

Reading all this helps me a lot and I apprecaite everyone on here so much. Thanks for sharing and stay strong, there is a plan and a reason to all this madness...I am not going to "drink XH's kool-aid" anymore!!

A

[irishblessings]

Thanks Antonia - and yes it does help. Even if the MLCr is in a tunnel I sometimes think we are the ones who get tunnel vision and can't see what the world sees.

Aug - I have so much respect for you raising these 3 kids yourself. In many ways I am fortunate that my girls are in their 20s - they have been such a big help. And my S and I have grown very close and he talks to me about his feelings. I am lucky.

The divorce should be final within the next couple of weeks. I don't want it - but I need it to be over. I need to work harder on letting go completely. I'm proud of myself on many levels for how much I have been able to pull it together - but I can do better.

[glamgirl]

Wow, IB good for you to look internally. All I can suggest is to forgive yourself for what you know to be your part in the downfall of the marriage and then let it go. It's not worth beating yourself up over.

As I think you know my h returned. What he did tell me after his return was that this was NOT my fault. He said he was selfish and that he has to live with his mistakes the rest of his life.

Now, I had to take responsibility for what I know to be my part in the downfall of our marriage, but it was my h's choice to have an affair. One cannot control another, therefore don't take that burden on just let it go. We all have free will.

I also believe that my h was in some form of a crisis layered with a whole heap of depression on top of it. Not excusing my h for what he did, he was wrong but it helps with trying to understand why he would choose the path of destruction he did.

I don't come on the boards much anymore. Just trying to live my life. Sorry that your divorce is close. None of this is what we wanted. The road is even harder though if/when they return after much damage. You have been so strong, keep on that path and remember this was/is not your fault. God bless!

[irishblessings]

Glam - I am so happy that your path has led to to be a family again. I realize it is not easy for you - but 10 years down the road I truly believe there will be peace and satisfaction.

I am struggling with this concept of "contributing to the downfall of the marriage." Didn't the downfall of the marriage really occur when someone quit working? I am 100% aware of my flaws - I have repeatedly admitted them - tried to work on them - failed at fixing them sometimes and succeeded at improving sometime. But I really think the "downfall" comes when someone quits.

I will just keep working on it!

[AntoniaB]

Brooklyn's post recently had a conversation with her XH where he said "I suck, don't I?"

I wonder sometimes if the reason that these people bailed on us is that they knew that we would ALWAYS work hard to keep things going and they knew that they couldn't match our efforts. Almost like they gave up, a sort of, "I know I can't possibly work as hard/as long as my spouse, I don't have the strength or fortitude, so I'm bailing."

If that is the case then their leaving may be the best thing to happen. I mean, would we want to be in a place where we held the relationship together in an 80/20 ratio, 80 being us, 20 being them? Or anything different than 50/50? Sure, we'd do it. That is who we are. We would probably all sacrifice just about anything for them/the marriage.

But in the end, maybe that's NOT a good thing because we'd lose ourselves.

We have to get past this notion that we are only "worth" something, that we've only "accomplished" something, if we contribute to or hold together a marriage.

Marriage seems to be the fulcrum, but maybe it isn't. Maybe the fulcrum is just being there for others in any way/capacity possible. Maybe our self-worth should be coming from that as opposed to being desired by/loved by just one person.

Just my 2 cents ;-)

[punkin]

Irish,

Antonia makes a very good point about who is carrying the weight of the relationship. Being the major breadwinner does not mean that your responsibility stops at the door. Sadly, many men think that it does.

When my H and I first separated back in 2002, I refused to file, refused to give up, spoke to him gently and calmly. Basically all the things they say in DB'ng, but before I knew of them.

At one point after our reconciliation, my H once said to me, " You are so strong. You are terrifying." I took it as a compliment, being as he is 6'1 and 210 lbs. at the time, and military to boot. He said it in the context of my holding out for the marriage.

Now, looking back, I feel more like I treated him as a child having a temper tantrum. I waited almost a full year for the tantrum to stop without action on my part. I patiently waited, patiently spoke, never berated, never begged.

Long story short, things held together for 8 more years. I held them together. It wasn't fair to me or him.

Yes, Irish, It takes two to make a marriage, but it can be held together by one regrettably. Also, everyone has blame in a divorce, but sometimes, we did what we did as a sacrifice to holding things together. Forgive yourself. You did what you did because you had to. ((HUGS))

[irishblessings]

Antonia and Punkin -
I appreciate your support. It is crazy - each of our experiences. If someone had told me about this 10 years ago - I would have never believed it.
I realized today that I have gone 6 days with NO tears! This is a record for me since June 13th. I'm feeling stronger. (about time)!
IB