Time to start a new thread. For those interested in my long winded stories, feel free to catch up. If not, I could always use guidance from this great community. Thanks for checking in!
W had an 11 month EA/PA with a new GF of hers. It began when W was three months pregnant with our first child. I discovered A in January 2011 and W made no contact promise with OW. W moved in with her brother for a month and just got her own apartment down the street a few weeks ago. We split custody of our 6 month old 50/50. W and I are on friendly terms. W is in self discovery. W needs to discover if she is indeed gay. If so, we will end up in divorce. If not, we will determine if our marriage can be reconciled. Very long road ahead, but I will remain patient. Yep. That's about it.
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
Couples therapy update. Another session with no agenda from either side, so it ended up very positive. I find these the most productive, because we are not hammering out something logistical.
W said she has continued to notice all of the change in me but wonders if it will be short lived if we ended up back together. I am glad to hear her thinking this way. To me, it means that the return is a possibility. Told my W that the change is to better myself for me. I told her that this process has really opened my eyes, and I continue to grow through it.
W also concerned that we have not argued or fought like we used to in months. She actually said that she is worried that I am listening to her and validating her thoughts. She thinks that it may be because I am avoiding the conflict and it is not real. I told her how I used to think that my logical answer to matters was always the right answer, but I have discovered that her opinion matters. It is important for me to put her on equal ground and have say in the matters regardless of what I think is the correct way. My "right way" is just an opinion, and I am learning that her opinions are just as important. Through active listening and validation, I am picking up what is important to my W. It is not that I am avoiding conflict. I am understanding what is really important to her and allowing the outcome. Just another 180.
Our couples therapist must be a DB vet, because she was about to fall out of her chair. Every concern my W had, our therapist backed the approach I was taking to her. Therapist told W to pay close attention to the changes that are in the present. As time goes by, W will recognize if they are real and long lasting.
I explained to my W that our old marriage is dead. If we end up deciding to reconcile, it will be a new marriage. Both of us are going through so many changes and learning so much about each other, that the results would be greatly different than what we had before. Therapist agreed and said that if that time does come, we should really start slowly to a point where we are almost dating again. My thoughts exactly and something that I have learned here as well.
As my W is going through her self discovery, I am also going through mine. It has only been in the last few weeks that I have really begun to figure out what DBing is all about.
The DR book and this community have really provided me with an amazing insight and support into this situation. No matter the outcome of my W's self discovery concerning her sexual orientation and future of our M, I know that I will be a better person in the end.
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
Sparks - it's crazy, right? On one hand you have her turning back towards you/questioning if she can trust the changes and on the other hand she is pushing for this child coordinator. Keep plugging away and keep a balance in your feelings/changing for you not her.
I'm so glad you have a good counselor! Ours (who really had no chance against my H, since he was in a crazy place when we went to see her) was very much into rehashing the past, when we were both looking for some action we could take.
Faith is, at one and the same time, absolutely necessary and altogether impossible. --Stanislaw Lem
Thanks, AJ. Couples therapy is interesting when one side isn't really into it. Sometimes I think that my W would just quit going if she had a chance. In the end, I tell myself that she does have a chance to make that decision. Much like everything. She has made lots of choices in our situation, but she is still going to therapy for herself and for us together. I think it is the weekly reminder that we have to be on the same page regardless if we end up together or not due to the needs of our S.
It has been mostly me steering the therapy ship. When there is no agenda, we begin talking about our relationship, where we are currently, and where we may be going. This opens up some serious communication. Our therapist could be the kind that just sits back and soaks in our conversations and then adds something she studied at the end. Ours is more likely to get actively involved in the discussion. Not to say she gives tons of advice, but she does offer value to each other's thoughts where we might not see it. My W has said that she has gotten upset when the therapist would put words in my mouth, and I have of course been upset when the therapist mentioned that a toddler needs their mother more and 50/50 might not be the best choice.
Since my W is the one that is halfway out the door, she is not one to initiate much of this conversation, but she is at least willing to communicate what is initiated. For me, I am in a much different place. I am striving to open up the lines of communication, so it has been easier for me to get things started in therapy.
I just thought it was kind of funny that my W has been so concerned with me validating and listening to her. Almost as if this is a bad thing. I just need to stay consistent.
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
Wow Sparks, you and I have almost the exact same story almost exactly one year apart. I just joined this forum because of your story and to let you know someone else is going through a lot of what you did/are. Certainly each situation is unique but the similarities to mine are uncanny in a lot of regards. It looks like you are doing all the right things and everything you can. I won't hijack your thread with my story but if want to chat independently via email or otherwise, I would be happy to.
Soltero - I am not sure how I missed responding to your post on my last thread before starting this one.
Honestly, I would LOVE to hear you story. This forum has been a godsend for the support given to get me to a positive place mentally. However, and I am sure that you discovered this last year, but it is really difficult finding others that have dealt with the same sex affair and questions involving sexual orientation of their spouse. I guess that is why I even include it in the title. It is not to gain extra attention for a sticky situation. It is to attract those, like yourself, that my have had experience with it.
Where did you find your support system? Books? Websites? I would love for you to share everything that you are comfortable with.
I have been approaching the sexual orientation piece with patience and understanding. I will not allow the affair to continue in our marriage, but I will allow my W time to go through her self discovery. I will continue to improve myself physically and mentally regardless of that. The approach to the divorce busting does not change, and that is why those on this message board have been so great.
If you are still around, I would love to hear from you. This forum has the ability to send personal messages disabled, so I won't be able to contact you directly. Please. Highjack away.
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
Thanks for the reply. It will probably take some time for me to gather my thoughts enough to put the whole story out there but I can speak to a couple of your questions.
Regarding the sexual orientation, I think it is important to not get caught up in an either/or situation or put too much stock into labels. I believe that sexuality may be somewhat fluid, especially for women. My wife doesn't think of herself as a lesbian or even bisexual. In a large part, it wasn't about sex but probably more about intimacy. In the same regard, it wasn't NOT about sex either. There were some real issues related to sex that the OW was going through in her marriage.
I also don't know how much you know about the OW of if you were close to her but in my case, the OW was my wife's best friend. Our families were very tight, we vacationed together, did Christmas together, etc. In the talks I had with my wife following her disclosure, I began to better know the OW and that she was very very much like me in a lot of ways. So my wife was attracted to that I believe. The real pain now for me is the loss of relationship between our families. I miss her and her family terribly and I love her children nearly as much as I love my own.
What is okay and not okay to talk about in couples therapy when DBing?
I ask this question, because I sometimes feel that I share too much as far as my personal growth and change sometimes. It builds great conversation and communication in therapy, but I wonder if it is counter-productive to DBing.
I want to keep the communication and healing lines open during our therapy sessions, as this is the only hour each week where we are allowed right now to talk about our R. I just don't want to give too much as to hurt my situation.
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
Thanks for the reply. It will probably take some time for me to gather my thoughts enough to put the whole story out there but I can speak to a couple of your questions.
Regarding the sexual orientation, I think it is important to not get caught up in an either/or situation or put too much stock into labels. I believe that sexuality may be somewhat fluid, especially for women. My wife doesn't think of herself as a lesbian or even bisexual. In a large part, it wasn't about sex but probably more about intimacy. In the same regard, it wasn't NOT about sex either. There were some real issues related to sex that the OW was going through in her marriage.
I also don't know how much you know about the OW of if you were close to her but in my case, the OW was my wife's best friend. Our families were very tight, we vacationed together, did Christmas together, etc. In the talks I had with my wife following her disclosure, I began to better know the OW and that she was very very much like me in a lot of ways. So my wife was attracted to that I believe. The real pain now for me is the loss of relationship between our families. I miss her and her family terribly and I love her children nearly as much as I love my own.
Thanks for coming back around, Soltero. Newbie posters are put in a monitoring period, so I think that is how I missed your original post. I know I was very frustrated when I couldn't post as often as I wanted to when I first joined.
I would love to hear about your thought process through this. Since you are a year ahead of me, it may help me gain some insight.
I agree with you concerning the sexual orientation piece. W and I had a conversation about this last week in therapy. At first, I thought there were just two forks in the road. Lesbian = divorce. Straight = reconciled marriage. I told my W that I now realize there are more, and I am trying to discover what they mean to me. If my W is bisexual, would we be able to hold our marriage together? If there were certain needs that I could not meet, would be okay in the long run? It was here that I also mentioned that there is also the possibility that she is not a lesbian but either one of us could actually decide to not reconcile the M. She agreed that there could be many outcomes, but I need to consider all of them right now.
I used the word fluid as well. W said she was still trying to figure out that for herself right now and what fluid means. Is fluid something in the moment or fluid as it changes over long periods of time. I do know that there was a strong emotional connection involved between her and OW. One that my W has said is the strongest she has ever experienced.
When I first discovered the A through her email, I read and analyzed each and every one. There were hundreds. Some very sexually graphic. Some very deep conversation about their futures together. They had talked about being together forever and a timeline to make it happen.
I don't remember how detailed I got in my first two posts on the first thread, but the OW was a friend of W's as well. Not a longtime best friend by any means, though. When my W met OW a couple of years ago, W had just gotten pregnant. I saw this OW as a friend that was different than my W's others. W's other friends starting becoming less available to her, since W couldn't go out and party with them. OW did not drink and W told me that she really liked her personality when they first met. OW was also very reserved and private (not like my W who is very outgoing).
Once they became friends, it was only a few months before they started sharing their feelings towards each other. I actually encouraged my W to spend time with OW over the last year while the A was in full swing. They spent a ton of time together, but I never thought A for a second. How would you really? Even in the heat of the A, W and OW were around me and the house often. I would do favors for the OW. I was completely blind.
In the end, I do not know how this will turn out. I can only be patient while my W decides what is best for her. I have no idea how long this will take or how long I will be able to remain patient. It has been tearing at me for months, but I am finally coming to a place of peace inside me. That is where this site and the process involved has really helped me. Understanding that I cannot make this decision for my wife. That I can only take care of myself and become a great father to my infant S.
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
I must say, even 1 1/4 years out, it is still difficult to deal with. Even if you strongly believe, as I did, that my spouse would never have an affair, you know how affairs typically happen, and who they typically involve, so when something like this happens, you really are just so unprepared. Even though my mind "went there" during the whole thing, (i.e. the idea of my wife having a physical affair with her best friend), it is easy to dismiss it because it does sound preposterous, and can be chalked up to red-blooded, American male thinking about having a threesome. So I spent considerable amount of time in therapy while this was happening convincing myself that a PA wasn't the case. I wanted my wife to be happy and I could easily see how happy she was when we were together with them so I chose to ignore some of the signs.
The truth of the situation was, I was being codependent on my wife and she and the OW were codependent on each other. One of the real lightbulb moments for me was my therapist explaining the difference between codependency and inter-dependency. I think my wife and I now in a place of inter-dependency and that is certainly a much better place to be. Another concept that was brought up was relational idolatry or putting the relationship as the highest priority in your life. My wife had put her relationship with the OW as the highest priority in her life. I don't know if you are a Christian or connected to a faith community but it can be both a blessing and a curse but the material coming out of some Christian counselors has been helpful to me.
Some books that were helpful to me:
Conquering Codependency Telling Yourself the Truth TrueFaced
For the last few weeks, I have had a peace over me that has not been there. I think it really is the emotional detachment that we strive for. It has been much easier to be away from my W, and I recognize how to move on without her.
I have recently been finding myself sliding a little. With the panic and chaos wearing off, I would assume that this is natural. Just when you begin to feel a calm, you let you guard down.
I have not been exercising the last few weeks like I had been and instead sleeping in. I have made myself much more accessible to my W. I have not kept a list of short term goals.
I think this needs to change. I started yesterday by not replying to my W's emails and text messages regularly. I had a friend ask me yesterday if I wanted to train for a triathlon with him. You bet! Great way to GAL.
I need to keep my focus. Anybody else have these feelings of letting up as things begin to get easier for you? Ideas on how to keep focused?
Me - 33 W - 33 S - 9 months M - 3 years T - 5.5 years Bomb - 12/14/10 ILYBNILWY PA discovered - 1/18/11 PA began - 3/22/10 Separated
