WAW, and a bisexual open marriage part 3

[greenblue90]

Well I think the original last thread got locked so here is part 3.

Original threads are below:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2154324&page=1

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2158767&page=1

[greenblue90]

25

Yeah the notion of OP's are something that is hard to grapple with. The boundary I set was that we will consider OP's but not until we have what can be termed as a strong marriage.

What does that mean?

Well for one we need to be past the piecing stage. We need to be strong IF we go down the road of an open marriage it needs to be because we want to add a little something extra to something that is good. IF we have an open marriage it needs to be because we love and care each other, not that she loves me because I let her have an open marriage. She needs to love me for me. Just yesterday she tried testing my resolve and said that thinking about having OW's made her want more ml with me. I told her that is not what I wanted and that I want her to want me for me. If not what was the point of M.

It also means that we need to get past the ssm and have a good sex life together before any OP's get introduced. I will not get sloppy seconds. I will not work my butt off and sacrifice so that she can give the thing I want the most from her to OP's. IF we allow OP's into our life's they will be secondary things people we bring in every once in a while to spice things up. The primary relationship is between me and my W.

Most importantly if I let her do this it has to be because I want her to have a fun experience I can't provide, not because I am afraid she will leave if I don't. Like I said before I'm not going to lie and say that this lifestyle does not sound enticing, it does sound fun.

So why have I been so against it? I'm afraid I will lose her if I let her do it. At the same time she claims to walk if I don't let her. Kind of a catch 22. So I guess I have decided the following:

"we will consider it and try it as long as we have a strong marriage in which we both can seriously trust that we will not leave each other for OP's"

In order to do that we need to work on the marriage. Once we have a fulfilling sex life together, once she appreciates what she has with me, once she no longer threatens to walk out after every minor fight, once we can make each other feel that no one can replace the other, then we can test the waters with OP's.

Will this happen soon, no. Yet it's the sacrifice that she makes of no OP's until we are strong that will show me that her primary love is me. I don't want to be with someone who can't make this sacrifice for me. I'm not asking her to go celibate, I just want her to show me that our R is so important that she is willing to put her desire for OW's on hold until we have a strong marriage.

I've accepted that my W will always have same sex wants. She needs to show me though that our R is more important than these wants. If she can do that it will go a long way in helping me feel comfortable in letting her.

Oh I almost forgot yesterday's update:

Good day over all I went by myself to play cards, then we went to dinner and a movie. During dinner she casually reminded me that "I had changed my mind again, and that she had threatened to leave if I changed my mind" translation: you have challenged my rules again, and I told you the punishment was me leaving if you did". I casually told her that yes I was changing the rules, and that I felt that unless we did this we would get a D anyway. What we were doing before was not working so we need to do this. Then the appetizer arrived, and she dropped the whole conversation. We later watched a movie at home, and snuggled on the couch.

She's already testing the boundary, I know itll just get worse from here. Need to stay strong, need to make her understand that this marriage is not built on OP's but on our willingness to stay together. If OP's are that important that she can't put the idea on hold until we are stable then she needs to go.

[ninelives]

IDK Green. Its seems to me like you are doing something that you Really dont want to do and are walking on pins and needles in case you do the wrong thing.

Is that the way you want to live your life? You must always be competing with someone else for her affection and for her desire.

It may work for awhile, but I dont know if it something that will last and then you will be back here again.

Otoh, there are people that really work this type of marriage and they are still happily married. I guess the question you must ask yourself is; " Is this something I would seek out if not backed into a corner?'

I dont want to judge, this is not what this site is all about. Just be sure this is the route you want to take because I dont know about you, but IF is stay on this site, its to be helping others, Because I dont think I could go through this again.

9

[greenblue90]

9
You bring some very good points, an that's why I am adamant that she has to be willing to fix us first.

I will not compete for her attention. That is a non negotiable. In order to do this we need to build a strong marriage. I need to feel that at the end of the day she undoubtedly chooses me. That our marriage is so strong that if given a choice she would choose me every time. My buddy claims to have that type of relationship and says thats why it works for them.

Your comment about whether if it's something I would seek if not backed into a corner is a good one. The main reason I haven't wanted was BECAUSE I was backed into a corner. We are hanging by a thread and she wants to bring in competition?!

Had we had a more healthy relationship where we are both sure of our commitment to each other I think I would have willingly tried it. Like I said before going to strip club with her was alot of fun. It felt nice to have someone I could be that comfortable with. In the past she would jealously cover my eyes up if a sexy girl in a bikini appeared on tv. We recently watched porn together. That's what I want from her. I want us to be adventurous to try new things, and for the both of us to get over our insecurities. In order to do that we need a strong marriage.

You can rest assure that if things don't work out I most likely won't be back here. If after all this, I am not enough she can have the D. I think I have given enough, she needs to sacrifice not me.

As for the general philosophy of this site, I agree that I have veered quite a bit. I've restricted myself to commenting only on threads that I had already started on. I don't feel comfortable commenting on new threads, based on my actions. That being said I have learned a lot here, and I want to thank everyone. Especially young and 25 who keep up with my craziness on a daily basis.

Thanks to this community I have gained a stronger appreciation of myself my W and M. I survived the separation, learned how to deal with the fights, learned how to prevent the fights, learned how to gain back a lot of my self respect, and how not to be such a doormat when it comes to my W all thanks to this wonderful community.

The difference between this and other times is that before she demanded things of me, this time I am willing and somewhat intrigued by the concept of an open marriage, but it has to be on my terms, and on my timeline. If not she can go elsewhere.

In the past she set all the terms and wrote the rules to her advantage. I will compromise with her, but I will not settle for scraps.

Finally 25 I want to thank you for helping me realize my self worth of a H. I really am a catch, and if she doesn't want to accept my terms then she can go. I'm good looking, smart, in great shape, a great conversationist, have a great job and much more. If she can't appreciate that then too bad.

[ninelives]

Hope things work out for you GN. Really I do. That lifestyle is not my cup of tea but I mentioned that i have two really good friends that do that once in a blue moon and they are still together and I dont think any less of them.

Question: What happens if you start to feel jealous and that is not what you thought it was going to be? I guess you cross that bridge IF you get there.

Also, I know another couple that tried this open marriage thing and since some guys will stick their willie anywhere, ( not judging your wife's looks btw), it is usually easier for her to pick up. Especially if she is playing for both teams.

In my buddies case, they had an open marriage but she was the one getting all the openenss if I can use this term and he was getting nada.

Needless to say, that marriage broke up.

Just something else to consider.

9

[25yearsmlc]

both couples I know who had "open" m's ended divorce.

hate to say it, but wouldn't it be easier just to cheat?

[greenblue90]

9
Thats why I think that a period of just me and her is important. We need to learn to take care of each others needs before we go seeking for it elsewhere. If we do it once in a blue moon as you said to add some spice it's ok. If it becomes our primary means of sexual gratification that is not ok.

Secondly I want this to be a joint activity, if we are both having fun there's no need to keep score.

Funny cause at one point she asked if I would feel more comfortable if she got me a girl.

My buddies wife does most of the picking for both of them, and he doesnt mind since she is very conscious in making sure he gets to have fun too.

Their philosophy is that it's ok as long as everyone involved is enjoyin themselves he claims they are strong enough that they can put a stop to it if anybody feels uncomfortable.

This is going to sound crazy but we have both been insanely jealous over each other since we met. It felt great for us to do things like go to strip clubs or watch porn together, maybe we can take it to the next level maybe we can't.

25
I think the difference is that in cheating it hurts you that they enjoyed someone else. In a healthy open relationship you are happy for them. in turn they are happy for you when you do the same. Only couples that are secure with themselves and each other can do this.

[25yearsmlc]

my h and I are secure and happy with each other...

and we don't want OPs...

just sayin' it's really risky and NOT appealing to most people. That's not insecurity speaking at the moment but a different view of m.

Like my friend Susan, whom you have not referred to, would never want to be with OM other than her h.

it's the type of marriages we have, I guess.

[♪CS♪]

I'm afraid I will lose her

GB, you're not alone here. This fear is in a lot of us. This fear makes us do things we regret. For some of us time after time after time after...

You will get a lot of opinions on what is and what is not right regarding M.

My opinion my not be popular here, but I'll say it. If you want an open M, threesomes, mutual masterbation, toys, whips, chains, candle wax on the nipples. I don't care. What people do in their own homes, that is why I love being free. Knock yourself out.

So don't confuse what others morals might be with what yours are. That is for YOU to decide.

This is what I will say.

REGARDLESS of what you decide on the point above.

Respect is IMPORTANT.

REALLY important.

I know this has been thrown at you over and over, but do you really get it?

You have spent a lot of time telling stories of your W.

I want you to come back and tell a story about YOU.

For a minute, pretend like your W does not exist.

What are YOUR boundaries?

How do YOU determine respect?

What kind of M do YOU want?

I just don't know if you can move forward without answering these honestly.

[25yearsmlc]

^^^ good stuff...


It's not only that I think the open m is bad idea, and I admit, I do think that...

but I can see how some cultures work it out (meaning more wives) and I see the appeal from a female point of view for sure

I've already said it's not for me and I think it's a high risk behavior. For every couple that has an open m, you can find 20 that ended b/c of adultery OR having a supposedly open m...

and you can find 20 couples married that are monogamous. I like trusting that my h won't sleep with ow...I just do.

But that's NOT my biggest "obstacle" with GB's choice...


My biggest obstacle is that GB, you keep saying your m has to be more "solid" and more "secure" before you jump out of the plane, hoping the chute opens...

You have a contingency that must occur, in order to POSSIBLY(b/c you are not that comfortable yet, and it will NOT be what you expect...)

but this contingency has to happen in order for you to pursue this other activity

and the contingency of a solid secure marriage means...??????

It's so NOT clear


thing is, you don't know what that "Secure, solid" m to her, looks like.


No boundaries, no agreed upon expectations, so....what's it really going to take for you to feel safe with her?


Not to mention her feeling safe with you (though I think that's a weapon she uses and isn't reasonable). It's turning around on your dad when he catches you coming in late, and saying "don't you trust me, OMG!!??" It worked for me...til I began dating. Then my dad would say

I trust you...I don't trust your bf....

(Later, my dad changed it to "I just don't trust your judgement right now")

Since you are so unclear about what you really want there's no way you or she will ever be able to measure progress.


I'm telling you if you set up some measurable goals that are "normal" (not like '"she can't yell at me in public more than 3 times forleaving a light on--which I pay for-btw!!!" b/c that's crap that should never happen, gb, ok?)

And I'd give whatever you come up as measurables (some positives in there, not just avoiding negatives),

but e.g., hugs, kisses hand holding, asking questions of you and your life, BEING INTIMATE...(for God's sake at some point isn't that a dealbreaker? How often is enough, 4 times a year? I mean you aren't even 30 yet, are you?)


ONCE Those things begin happening with some consistency

and then give it TIME...whatever time YOU think ought to be tripled or more...


Good luck