Thanks all for the advice. Now she's covering up on her own - maybe she's getting used to being separate also.
A little BG. We were totally happy and head over heels for 7 years - day in and out. Then I started a company and started ignoring her. Company collapsed with eceonomy, had twins, almost got forclosed on, couldn't find work. Pulled it together as a contractor but it's inconsistent.
She is now in biz school and having this EA. She told me about OM to be 'respectful' before anything happened. Now she is saying if we didn't have house and she wasn't in school we'd be divorced tomorrow. Said she is keeping an open mind but right now doesn't see us fixing it.
this is not an answer, okay?
We want to help YOU b/c you are the one here posting. You are all we can help and you are all YOU can control.
What has SHE Complained about in the marriage? You say you ignored her and you seem to explain it away due to finances/new company.
This is too generic. Either you are not digging deep enough or you are avoiding real issues.
What are her complaints? Are any of them valid? What are YOU doing about those? Instead of planning for failure, plan on changing into a better man.
No woman is unmoved by the loving interaction of her children with their father. (I think it's a turn on for many moms).
So Be the best dad you can be. NOW. They need you more than ever and it's a win win.
The deal is,
YOU have to show her change (not "convince" with words or arguments about what she SHOULD feel or really did feel, but forgot or refuses to see). SHE believes she is unhappily married, so she is.
So you have to SHOW HER that marriage to you, from this day forward,
can be better.
How are you doing that?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thanks. Good points. I really did ignore her. Slowly at first but increasingly for 5 years. To the point where she was very very alone. She had post partum and I didn't see through all the screaming and verbal abuse how alone and how much pain she was in - so I put her on anti-depressants and continued ignoring her (I didn't realize I was doing it) She started complaining about all the child care duties and housework so I started taking on more and more of that as a way to make up for my financial failures. She also lent money to my business which is now gone along with both our credit scores.
I am guilty of hurting her deeply and extremely remorseful.
Please put a helmet on. I don't mean to punish you for honesty b/c it's brave. But it's also mandatory if your situation is to improve....so let's look at this...
[quote=calidad]Thanks. Good points. I really did ignore her. Slowly at first but increasingly for 5 years. To the point where she was very very alone.
She had post partum (that can be a very big deal)
and I didn't see through all the screaming and verbal abuse how alone and how much pain she was in - so I put her on anti-depressants and continued ignoring her (I didn't realize I was doing it) Just so I'm clear, what does this mean? Are you an MD who prescribed anti-depressants for his wife and didn't address the underlying reasons for them? NOT bashing you, just wanting clarity. .
She started complaining about all the child care duties and housework You make it sound unreasonable of her "complaining" but to be clear, isn't it because she was doing all or most of it AND working too? And had given birth AND had post partum??
so I started taking on more and more of that as a way to make up for my financial failures. She also lent money to my business which is now gone along with both our credit scores. So you DID help more around the house? But your business went under and hurt hers too? Okay. Anything else? I am guilty of hurting her deeply and extremely remorseful. [/quote]
Let's accept those words at face value and say you really are aware of the fact you hurt her deeply. AND
Let's say you really are "extremely remorseful."
I never saw any of that in your posts.
I just saw your anger and victimhood feelings.
Neither of which helps you. And neither of which reflects your remorse or awareness of what you did to create this situation. You simply posted about how you wanted to know if YOU could have a sexual online affair...
I'm betting, she feels you pushed her into the arms of OM.
and you concede SHE has been "very very lonely... for 5 years..."
you have been lonely for what, a few months?
And you are Already lining up your plan of attack and how you'll avenge yourself if her affair gets physical
by leaving her AND the kids...Or issuing ultimatums...Good grief! You have not read the div busting books, have you?
PLEASE DO SO ASAP!
The real question is, what type of personal work are you doing?
Until this post, all I saw was the opposite.
So, what are YOU doing NOW to show her that YOU are different ?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Just so I'm clear, what does this mean? Are you an MD who prescribed anti-depressants for his wife and didn't address the underlying reasons for them? NOT bashing you, just wanting clarity.
-- No. I suggested she she a doctor and she refused so she went to her gynocologist - who told her she needed the meds because she is taking care of two one year olds and needs to remain emotionally stable.
She started complaining about all the child care duties and housework
You make it sound unreasonable of her "complaining" but to be clear, isn't it because she was doing all or most of it AND working too? And had given birth AND had post partum??
--Yes. That's all true. No, it wasn't unreasonable. She wouldn't let me help with the housework because I wasn't up to her standards.
so I started taking on more and more of that as a way to make up for my financial failures. She also lent money to my business which is now gone along with both our credit scores.
So you DID help more around the house? But your business went under and hurt hers too? Okay. Anything else?
--- Yes and Yes.
I am guilty of hurting her deeply and extremely remorseful. [/quote]
Let's accept those words at face value and say you really are aware of the fact you hurt her deeply. AND
Let's say you really are "extremely remorseful."
I never saw any of that in your posts.
I just saw your anger and victimhood feelings.
Neither of which helps you. And neither of which reflects your remorse or awareness of what you did to create this situation. You simply posted about how you wanted to know if YOU could have a sexual online affair...
I'm betting, she feels you pushed her into the arms of OM.
and you concede SHE has been "very very lonely... for 5 years..."
you have been lonely for what, a few months?
-- no, I've been lonely for a number of years too. But yes, correct. she does feel I pushed her into his arms, I assume.
And you are Already lining up your plan of attack and how you'll avenge yourself if her affair gets physical
by leaving her AND the kids...Or issuing ultimatums...Good grief!
You have not read the div busting books, have you?
PLEASE DO SO ASAP!
-- I am reading it right now.
The real question is, what type of personal work are you doing?
Until this post, all I saw was the opposite.
So, what are YOU doing NOW to show her that YOU are different ?
-- I just started going to church. Haven't had a drink in 3 weeks. Reconnecting with old friends. Listening to her much more. Getting away for a few days here and there to give her some space. I'm much more present in the room when I am with her, the kids, the family, friends. I am engaged in my life again and it feels really good.
-- And yes, I am very upset, very confused and very remorseful all at the same time. I feel sick about the way I treated her and I didn't even realize how much pain she was in. At the same time, I can't swallow the idea of living in the same house while she actively dates OM. I don't think I could forgive that was my point.
I don't agree with psych's take on it as far as "boundary setting" and confronting your w about the EA and OM....
b/c that sounds a lot like an ultimatum. Read the Divorce Remedy book asap
so you can understand why it's a bad idea to issue an ultimatum
Lot's of men and women on here who followed the "boundaries aren't DB" and where are they now? STBXW is pregnant by OM, living with their divorced spouse in the house (while they are still __ing OP), their W is inviting the affair partner over for dinner parties, wives left pregnant or with newborns, and spouses coming and going all times of day with no accountability.
Boundaries in all relationships are needed for them to be healthy. Boundaries are defensive in a nature they are about about how people can treat you. Why would anyone respect, love, cherish or honor you if you let them treat you like dirt?
In my bones I can't believe that any therapist, counselor, coach, psych, doctor, lawyer, police officer, clergyman, rabbi, friend, parent, DB vet, or guru would counsel someone to have no boundaries. I really don't think this is gospel from MWD.
I think boundaries are great. They show you see your spouse and give them freedom to choose their path. They also show that you love yourself and that you think you matter - that's attractive. Probably a 180 for most people too. Lot of heartache can be avoided by having healthy boundaries. Lovingly detach people it works.
"Love God and love your neighbor as yourself."
Cheers Coach
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Forgiveness is letting bygones be bygones and no longer holding something against someone.
Insanity is making yourself vulnerable to another person's crazyness all over again.
This quote from dbmod makes the case for boundaries. Don't make yourself vulnerable to another person's craziness means you need a boundary. Thanks dbmod for the quote!
Cheers
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Here is what DR says about "the Ultimatum" pp. 230-31
Quote:
"You can deliver a message such as this face-to-face, in a letter or e-mail, or over the phone. How you do it really doesn't matter. That you do it does. Your spouse will either take you up on your offer or decline. However, s/he might react defensively at first and then soften a bit. Wait a fwe days to see what happens and then, if s/he hasn't responded, ask for an answer. Then act. Either schedule a therapy appointment with a solution-oriented therapist, or go see a good attorney."
Step 3 in DR says to "Ask for What You Want."
Somewhere along the line the message is getting cloudy on the forum.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Boundaries are absolutely necessary. Absolutely. It's in the HOW and WHEN these boundaries are enacted, that is extremely important.
I would say that Coach's last post is correct, but may be a little out of order.
Asking for what you want is important. Knowing what you want must come before that (your goals). Be smart in HOW you ask for what you want.
Delivering an ultimatum, as described on 230-231, is not the first step. But an ultimatum is not the first step in boundary setting.
Start with knowing what you really want in this relationship. Ask for it in a way that your spouse can receive it. If you demand sex right now, you're not going to get it. If you demand she stop her affair right now, you not likely to get it.
Making everything either do this or everything is over is not the best way to build a relationship.
Besides knowing what YOU want, it's important to know what SHE wants, that's where negotiation of boundaries comes in(and boundaries are usually negotiated).
