I sent MIL flowers

[MrBond]

Of course you don't have to follow anyone's suggestions, but right now you're at the same place you are from the get-go.

"c likes to stay focused on solutions not the problem when i go."

I don't think your C is wrong to focus on this. You can't keep focussing on the problem without coming up with a solution. It's why you've been running around in circles. You concentrate too much on what you perceive as the problem (your H) and not enough on what you will actually do to fix that problem.

You can't expect your H to come back if you haven't changed. And you didn't answer that part. What have you changed?

Also, in terms of your financials, you were so worried about your H cutting off your funds since he has the OW. And in actuality, why should he give you money since he has the OW? Are you doing anything to help make your sitch more financially independent?

What happens if the OW tells him not go give you any more money? Then what?

[verycrazy]

Rysmom is going to school for radiology. One more course, algebra, before she enters the radiology program next Fall.

vc

[25yearsmlc]

here's what you said about him and it's not just the crime he committed that struck me, or that his work caught him doing it and that you warned him of it and fired him...

it's the guilt YOU say he does not feel, but then you claim that's what got him home,

My personal claim about guilt, which I stand by, is that it has never gotten a spouse home and restored a marriage.

Has remorse or guilt ever made someone return to try again at a r? Of course!

But then there were other things that cropped up when they tried. They rediscovered enough joy in the m to stay, or they got enough out of the r's with the kids, etc.

But I cannot imagine guilt itself, keeping a man home. Nor would I want him there...I have my dignity. I don't want pity or guilt to be in my h's heart, I want love and respect. That's what lasts, imo.

he owned a bread route and i would help him once in awhile ( i always loved helping him no matter what we were doing together), we would go to the grocery store where he delivered, all the woman would flirt with him like i wasnt there. we also owned a health club, the woman there would flirt with him,

you sure it was flirting or just normal socializing and helping business?


and one asked him to come to her apt. to help her hang curtains and he went. i found out about that about 3 yrs ago. i didnt trust her.

that's not cool...


if we were in the car and i was freezing he wouldnt put the heat on for me or if he had the ac on, and i was cold he didnt care, he only cared about his comfort . if we went shopping he would hand me the bags to carry because he didnt want to carry them.

maybe he had his reasons (sore back?) but on the surface that seems selfish. My h carries the bags b/c he's gallant, and we adjust heat/cooling for mutual comfort. Nothing heroic, just normal courtesy.

when i first met him he got us into legal trouble, he always twisted things around in his head that what he was doing was ok, he never had guilt about anything , which i thought was not normal.

The crime is one thing but you now dismiss it as "long ago." fair enough.

But the "twisting around in his head...never had guilt..." means he rationalizes well. See, That's another reason I'm not sure he came back to you for guilt b/c you say he didn't seem to feel it...

but perhaps b/c he wasn't sure of what he wanted then, or didnt' know what it would cost.
But so far it hasn't cost him much right? I mean he lives with OW at his mom's and so that's pretty low cost and if you sell the house then he gets half the equity right? or do you not own the home you are in? In any event, the present situation is one in which he pays little to live w/OW and didn't you say she's divorced now? She may get some alimony from her xh that will end when she remarries...fyi


another time i had a really good job and he did something illegal even though he got warnings from the co. to stop doing it, and i too, told him to stop, but he wouldn't. he could have gone to federal prison because of it, but they let him quit instead.

is this is a separate crime from the one he did when you first met that you mention above??

Does this sound like a narcissist?

RM,

let's talk about YOU and not him for a bit.

You had a rough early life from your own description. I think you said you were never happy til you met h.

Though I have a hard time believing that, literally, I think you fear it's true.

It's like you really don't know if you can be alright without him but now

you are starting to feel so uncomfortable in your present sitch that you are willing to make a move.

I hope your faith allows you to realize you do not need your h to be happy.

Faith, family and a few good friends are enough for most people.

I'm sorry your background had such deficits.

But if you could work on THOSE, filling them in yourself, learning to make yourself happy and doing what it takes, then imo, all aspects of your life would improve.

It's terrible to allow bad times from our earliest years to lock us up in misery for our whole lives. that's decades...

Reminds me of My mil's family. They were Russian and her mother has a terrible childhood with revolution, starvation, firing squads, etc. Anyhow, she told me of a sad event that happened to her when she was dancing at the age of 3 or 4 y/o. B/C of that event, she never danced again. She told us this story all the time as if she had proved something to someone...or had "shown them" but she never realized that all she had done was, NEVER DANCE...

I mean, she cut her nose off to spite her face? It was such a clueless thing for a smart woman to say but she died at age 96 never having danced. Just...think about it.

I hope you keep working on you, whether your h looks your way or not. At least if you've done the work and he wants back in, you'd be different and maybe this time things would last.

OR maybe you'll see him in a new light and realize there are reasons you are not with him.

I DO see some progress in your outlook.

VC I know you want her with him, but really, at all costs? I can't abide by that.

Finally, when you texted him, which I know you felt the need to do, why'd you speak for your son? Why not just talk about your own pain?

First, Your son is plenty old enough to speak for himself AND he has a decent R with h anyhow. They spend time with each other and he can tell his dad what he wants to tell him.

I think you did it b/c you feared that your pain alone wasn't enough for your h.

That makes me sad for you.

Let's work on you getting well RM, and then the chips might fall in place.

[rysmom]

No i definately agree, guilt would not make a m work. we were really enjoying each other company when h came back. he would say i love you with all my heart and i knew he meant it. We were spending time together something that i wanted from him more than anything, he gave me material things but i really wanted his time.
He might have came home partly because of guilt but he also realized the mistakes he made. the main reason he left the last time was because of the trust issue, he wouldn't call me once a day he thought that was a control thing like everything else i did, and i would bring ow up sometimes and that was like keeping her in our life, even though she wasnt anymore. i know i made mistakes.
I know i change my attitude towards him often on here, because sometimes i try to convince myself to let him go. ( no comments from the peanut gallery. Its like you sit there, just waiting to come out to attack).

[rysmom]

thanks for sharing the story about your MIL mother. I dont want to waste my life anymore. I have been doing alot more than i did the whole time i was with my h and i like me more. I want to go on a daring spiritual adventure somewhere and prove to myself the strong person i can be. any suggestions on a low budget? i was thinking Machu Pichu ( dont know how to spell it)

[25yearsmlc]

Not familiar with that.

But I know a 4 day workshop in Philadelphia that changed my life. Are you thinking of things like that?

btw, when I got home from it (and it was for personal growth and clarity, not a marriage thing) but h was so struck by my changes, he went later on himself!

He was Not the type to do that before, so that says a lot.

[25yearsmlc]

it's called Essential Experience.

RM if you go to that, you WILL change your life.

Given the number of hours you'd get of "therapy", it's not pricey but it may seem that way at first. But it's not if you consider the housing is included.

Check out their website. I cannot stress it enough. H and I kept our m together solidly for 15 more years and I think bc of how close we were, we were better able to reconcile

b/c of tools we got there.

[verycrazy]

First of all 25, who in the hell said that? I did not say or imply that she should be with him at all costs.

vc

[verycrazy]

Hi, rysmom, you only left out one of the c's in Picchu, I looked it up I want to go everywhere the show "Survivor" has been.

Who knows, getting away from your life there for a few days would be good for you. Maybe the extreme therapy 25 recommends would be good, too. Maybe some sort of foreign country is the thing for you. Some place off the beaten path where you have to rely on your own strength. Can I come ?

I am glad you like yourself more now, rys. That is great you can say that. I think you have strengths in you that you haven't yet discovered.

As to what 25 said, I did not suggest you try to be with your H AT ALL COSTS. I am only supporting you in what you want. If you want him, and want to try to get him back, fine. If you want to end it, I fully support that, too. It is entirely up to you, because ultimately, it is your heart that has to decide what it wants either way. I would never try tell you what to decide. I only want to be the friend who is supportive of you.

vc

[25yearsmlc]

First of all 25, who in the hell said that? I did not say or imply that she should be with him at all costs.

vc

VC I didn't mean to suggest that. I just emphasized the words "at all costs" b/c you and I do support marriages staying together...[i]but not at all costs.
[/i]
not attributing that part to you. Make sense?