Not waiting, but still around

[aeolianchaos]

For my most recent thread, check out: Stillness


So.. lots of stuff kicking around at the end of that thread. I'll copy/paste last two posts:

Val,

You raise some good points and some valuable insights.

Yes, I do ask the $h!t out these questions. grin I think that its part of me exploring my thoughts and my concerns without necessarily leaping to conclusions right away.

What do I want now? For me, or for that relationship?

What am I ok with now? I'm ok with any number of possibilities.

If we never see each other again, it would be too bad but I can handle that. If we move in a direction towards reconciliation, I can handle that.

What I don't believe that I'm okay with is entering some kind of collusive relationship w/ her where she gets to dodge herself and I'm pretending I don't feel the way I do towards her. It isn't my responsibility to make her grow, but it is my choice to not participate in something that I think would prevent that, while probably causing me a fair bit of grief.

I think the ability to tolerate anxiety and stress is very important, but I don't read it as the decision to expose oneself needlessly to something unpleasant just to prove something to myself.

What I would like (in my ideal world) would be for her to walk right into herself and experience some epiphanies about her choices and her behaviors. But I also accept that I'm not the one to do that for her.

I don't know if I'm fully grasping the implications of what you are talking about with regards to acting from a loving place. Are we talking about love in the sense of loving-kindness?

I think that I act from a loving place but it is also one that is strategic. I know that certain actions will push me away from what I believe I want - other actions will perhaps be useful in moving towards that. I also believe that I can love my WAW, but still not necessarily be okay w/ having a friendship.

I find compassion comes very naturally to me, and that it is often easy to put other's needs ahead of my own. After my WAW disclosed her A, I was p!$$ed (obviously) but rather quickly had a tremendous degree of empathy for the fact that she was feeling shame, guilt, and embarassment. Unfortunately, I assumed she also felt remorse.

It is hard/important work for me, to really figure out what my personal needs are (beyond the basics of survival) and develop my own self.

As to your question about if I always ask my W so many questions: No, not really. Lately I feel like I'm a character from Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead playing tennis with questions - I am doing my best to just elicit information and be receptive to what she is saying. I am interested in where she is at - in terms of her thinking - and it gives me the opportunity to listen without passing judgement on her.

I don't feel a strong urge to express myself towards her or share my feelings in any way really. This is probably a combination of "knowing better" and maintaining some emotional distance.

I also don't wish to engage with some of her 'leading' statements about how I feel towards her or anything like that - what I think isn't really the question. And she knows where I stand - I've stated it explicitly "W I want you and I want to be wanted by you."

Thanks, Val - you're thoughts definitely elicited something from me!

[aeolianchaos]

Hey JS,

Thank you for your thoughts.

I like that proverb! My intention is to keep doing what is working and tweak things if I need to. Thus far I am not sure if what I'm doing is working or if my WAW is just crazy.

I tend to think that yes, the WAW is someway trying to assuage their own guilt. In my WAW's case I am deeply suspicious this is a way of "cleaning" up her rep by being able to say to others "We're still good friends."

Of course, my question is - what kind of friendship is that?

It is funny she says "We grew up together" because yes, in a chronological sense we did. However I think I've done a lot more growing up in the past 6 months (mostly w/o her) than I did in the past decade.

In a past conversation she said that getting D was a grown up decision, and having the A was a grown-up mistake. I find it curious that in her mind, she needs to validate herself or try to present herself as a 'grown-up.'

This 'grown-up' thing has been a theme in her life.. when we married she would argue with her mother "I'm a married woman.. I'm a grown up... stop telling me how to live my life.." I am pretty ignorant when it comes to family of origin stuff, but damn if I don't perceive some kind of thing going on there.

[aeolianchaos]

So some thoughts today:

Read 5 Love Languages last night. Interesting book - makes a lot of sense, in the context of understanding that what you think would show love to one's spouse might not be perceived in the same way by the spouse.

I do wonder about the need for another person to 'fill one's tank'.. seems very attachment-focused. At the same time, we aren't talking about difficult things, here.. we are talking about basic expressions of affection in someone else's language.

Anyways I am going to spend some Quality time today thinking about my LL, my W's LL, and see if I can't integrate some of these ideas into my basic 'people reading' skill set. It seems like this kind of awareness could be very useful.

I took the 5LL quiz back in May, and it was Words of Affirmation, Physical Touch, and a tie w/ Gifts and Quality Time.

Just took it again now: Quality Time, Physical Touch, and Words of Affirmation.

So, can someone's LL change, or is my 'love tank' so empty @ this point that I just really don't know what matters? Hmmm.

Going to have to work out what my W's are. This could be fun.

[aeolianchaos]

Grrrr...

Interesting evening. Hung around a bunch of folks to see off a friend who is moving. Some of these people have worked with my W, professionally.

At one point I met someone and they were asking me how I knew my friend, and my WAW came up. I ended up telling him what was going down and found out that apparently my WAW has been giving people the impression that we have not been a couple for a lot more than 4 months. Granted, he was pretty inebriated, but he was surprised when I told him she walked out only 4 months ago.

Right now.. I'm irritated. A little disgusted. A little disappointed in myself for talking about my sitch... I didn't say anything negative about her (well.. her actions say enough.. don't they?) and even acknowledged that I still love her. But if she has been telling these people for a while now that we weren't an item, why would she be doing that?

Her lies disgust me. At this point, I really wonder.. what exactly am I seeking to create, and who am I seeking to create it with?

I'm disgusted w/ myself for not seeing through yet another layer of her BS.

This isn't about compassion for her at this point - it's about compassion for me. I feel so disconnected from my own desires and wants, and the threads that draw me towards her are fraying when I discover that her duplicitousness runs even deeper than I thought it did.

We're supposed to see one another tomorrow so I can give her some of her $h!t. At this point, I feel like just putting it in a trash bag and telling her to pick it up.

In all likelihood, I'll be pleasant and 'cool' and not do any of that, and not even let on that I know what I know. It isn't as if it would accomplish anything.

I'm just less convinced that there is much worth accomplishing with her.

I already knew she lies through her teeth for social purposes. I already knew she had been sleeping w/ this OM for at least a year.. so there isn't anything really new. But it still irritates the p!ss out of me.

[Finah]

I know how you feel. It's hard not to take personally. Its still a pretty fresh wound so its going to get to you.

Man I know you know why your W did that, she is scared to turn inward. It's so much easier to lie than face yourself and reality.

[aeolianchaos]

I think what bugs me is just discovering another layer of duplicity.

It reminds me of who she is being, and makes me feel less confident that a M w/ her would be better than a life without her in it at all.

For all our 'history' and the bonds of almost a decade together, seeing her in this light is pretty gruesome sometimes.

[Finah]

The self that she presents which one is more true?

The way she interacts with you?

OM?

Those socially?

I deal with this on a weekly basis. And I feel the exact same way when I hear new info come out.

Dont feel duped by her.

You are probably the only person she really trusts

Her deepest concerns and fears, she has talked to you about those. About how she hurt you and what she has done

She allows herself to be totally vulnerable to you.

So when you hear stuff like this. Brush it off man.

[aeolianchaos]

Finah,

You are probably the only person she really trusts

Her deepest concerns and fears, she has talked to you about those. About how she hurt you and what she has done

She allows herself to be totally vulnerable to you.

I don't know if this is true or not.

She allows herself to appear vulnerable - whether or not she does? I don't know.

I have a deep deep skepticism at this point..

[Finah]

Finah,

You are probably the only person she really trusts

Her deepest concerns and fears, she has talked to you about those. About how she hurt you and what she has done

She allows herself to be totally vulnerable to you.

I don't know if this is true or not.

She allows herself to appear vulnerable - whether or not she does? I don't know.

I have a deep deep skepticism at this point..

Yeah I don't know, it was kind of me just thinking aloud about my own sitch and trying to apply it here.

There are times though when I wonder.......

Why is she doing this?
Is she just dragging me back in b/c of her own problems?

I get that feeling though, that two-faced feeling.

Like she comes to me or in your case your W comes to you and appears genuine, but is out laughing and telling a different story behind your back w/ everyone else.

It's not a good feeling.

I don't know what you do, even personally w/ my own sitch I don't really know.

It very much is a roller coaster.

[aeolianchaos]

Well.. a LIVE R talk this time. So no colorful dialogue, but I'll get a summary of it up here tonight.

This one clocked in around 2 hours, real time. I didn't bring it up, but I definitely participated.