Youngster Questions Reality, WAW Moves On...

[westcoastfella]

At work today, I got an e-mail from the girl that I work with who I described a few posts back. It was a very friendly, sounding-bored kind of e-mail: "How are things going over there? Are you guys busy?" She was at a different branch as she is a floater financial service rep. I sent her one back saying how things were. Eventually, we just started e-mailing each other back and forth about stuff that we've been up to and stuff that we're doing. I don't know what it is about life post-sitch, but you start to really crave human relationships, even if it's only a friendly one. I find myself talking to people who I help at work and really getting into the conversations...

After work, I headed down to the library and went to another write-in. Not as many people as I thought there were going to be, but it was still fun to sit down and goof around. One of the people joining us explained that he came there to get some ideas about publishing. Apparently, he grew up as a gang-banger in southern California and turned his life around with religion, and now he wants to publish his life story. Very interesting stuff. It just goes to show how people can grow even in the face of tough circumstances.

Then I got some cheap junk food from the Jack in the Box and went home. Usually I eat pretty right, but every once in a while, I just have to splurge. I'm also looking forward to a three-day weekend. I wonder what I will do to GAL that entire time. Hmmmm...

[westcoastfella]

I'm writing tonight because I feel like I'm of a mood that I never before thought that I would be in. For a while now, I have been contemplating filing D myself just to get out of this state of limbo-land. I have grown to despise this feeling of "waiting" to see if my W's A will fold and if her love & respect for me will ever come back. So far, it has been five months since my sitch has begun, and I see zero indication of progress on that front.

Maybe I'm just impatient. I don't know. But I do know that I very much dislike the fact that I'm fighting so hard for our M when I have a very strong feeling that my W would never work nearly as hard to save us if the tables were turned. That huge imbalance of power doesn't make me feel very good about myself.

I'm starting to wonder if I'm just better off pursuing a new R and pushing the reset button. That way, I could avoid making any of the many mistakes that I made in this last one. And, to be honest, I'm very tired of feeling unloved and unwanted. I want very much to feel that again from someone, and I'm not sure if I'll ever get that from my W ever again.

In addition, I'm very concerned that I could never get over my W's A even if the option of recon found itself on the table. Despite my strongest efforts to put it out of my mind (which has actually really helped me emotionally and mentally), I sometimes think that I could never get over it. The fact that my W has been so vocal about her sex life with OM makes me cringe at the thought of ever ML to my W again. I would always know that they did things together and would always wonder how I compare to him. And of course there's the obvious fear: how would I know that W would never do any of this again?

*sigh* I'm not ready to take this step yet, but it has been running around on my mind. I sometimes picture how my DB-ing would look to anybody else who knew all the details of my sitch. I keep feeling like they'd tell me, "What are you holding out for? Ditch her and find somebody else already!"

Any advice or comments?

[kml]

And of course there's the obvious fear: how would I know that W would never do any of this again?

You wouldn't. And although I know it's a bit anti-DB, my advice to a young person like you, without kids, whose spouse has already shown that they have this ability to cheat - I don't recommend you stay with them if you plan to have kids.

My ex cheated on me very early in the marriage. We reconciled and went on to have three great kids. When they were teens he cheated on me again - they found out and were devastated. And I felt guilty, because I realized - while I had taken the risk of taking my H back the first time, my innocent kids were now paying the price in pain for that decision of mine to risk it.

Your W has behaved in a very insensitive and cockeyed way - not just the semi-appropriate apologetic way a woman who has cheated on her spouse because of lack of love might behave, but in a vicious destructive downright MEAN way. And that doesn't speak well for her character. Ask yourself, is this the woman you want by your side in the future if life throws you a giant curveball like, say, a kid with leukemia?

[aeolianchaos]

Hey WCF,

It makes a lot of sense that you might be in the mood that you're in right now.

This feeling of waiting that you are talking about is one that I'm sure a lot of us can relate to, and finding the balance point between being open to something new w/ your WAW and the growing sense of your own self-worth that might make you wonder if that is even worth sticking around for.

I think that the two conflicting feelings and ideas are really useful for learning something powerful about yourself. Ambivalence is uncomfortable and can lead to overthinking, but I think learning to see things in all their shades of grey (but objectively as you can) is a good thing.

I would say that I wonder if pursuing a new R at this time is in your best interests. I also wonder why you would choose to immediately pursue a new R after just getting out of one where you have been working so much at saving this one?

I know there are guidelines and rules of thumb (eg 1 month for every x years.. or is it 1 year for every x years?) and I think those are always more of a generalization than an absolute, but I think the idea of really exploring what it means to be a single person is also very healthy after a breakup of a long term relationship or marriage.

Another way of putting it is, what exactly are you hoping to gain by entering another R after you've decided that maybe its in your interests to leave this one?

Which isn't to say you shouldn't honor those feelings of wanting to feel wanted and appreciated. And I'm sure you also want to love and appreciate another. Those are really solid things and I think to dismiss them or bury them would be a tragedy.

Ultimately you have to figure out what is going to serve your integrity best. No one else but you can really judge you for standing for your marriage. When you believe that it is probably time to let go completely and move forward, I would hope you can do so with open eyes and a peaceful heart, knowing that you did what you could but that your W ultimately has the right to make her own decisions about her relationships.

I would only add this, and it is only from my perspective. Would it be fair to another person to enter into a relationship with them at this point?

Speaking personally: I know for me, I feel like it would be unfair to the other person (and myself). As much as I like to believe I've grown and changed tremendously from all of this (and I do.. ) I feel like in seeking out a new partner in a serious way would be seeking someone who might help me avoid some aspects of this experience that I'm not so sure that I should let myself dodge.

[Nblost]

Just a quick note to say that I agree that you need to do what feels right for you. I don't mean to be anti-DB-ing either, but I saw kml's post this morning and I don't think you should be afraid to move on at some point if the M doesn't look like it can be saved. You are young and you have almost your whole life ahead of you!

Several of my friends were married in their early 20's and got divorced in their mid-20's. Honestly, in our 40's now, I barely remember that they were married before. Everyone moved on and went on to find better people, had kids, etc. I had a couple 4-year relationships in my 20's. Never got married, but they were good learning experiences. After breaking up from the second one (boyfriend cheated on me while going to school abroad), I was devastated, almost suicidal. I moved on a couple months later though and had a period of being single/dating that was FABULOUS. I traveled alone to Costa Rica to volunteer, I dated a range of people and I did some dumb things...but most of all, I lived life and I think that period set me up to be happily married once I hit 31.

My current husband is having issues now (in an affair) but I've been glad I married him versus anyone else. I also agree you want to feel very solid before you have kids. Having kids really changes things (lots of additional stress) and unfortunately, places more pressure on putting up with some things from a spouse that you might not otherwise.

I wouldn't spend a lot of time on your wife and wondering if she has a mental problem or is in a MLC...she's probably just finding herself in her 20's. I think you will just waste more time if you start to think she is "sick" and thus you owe it to her to try harder. If she comes back, great...if not, I would bet you'll be in a better place. Work on yourself and GAL for you!

M: 43
H: 45
T: 14 years
M: 12 years
Affair: 8/2011, H on the fence
D10, D8, D4

[westcoastfella]

I really appreciate the replies, everybody. I hope that no one minds if I simply make a series of replies in one big post.

Your W has behaved in a very insensitive and cockeyed way - not just the semi-appropriate apologetic way a woman who has cheated on her spouse because of lack of love might behave, but in a vicious destructive downright MEAN way. And that doesn't speak well for her character. Ask yourself, is this the woman you want by your side in the future if life throws you a giant curveball like, say, a kid with leukemia?

Sadly, I used to think that the answer was yes, but I'm slowly coming to realize that perhaps the answer is no. If this is the way that she chooses to resolve problems NOW, I would hate to see what she would be capable of if we had kids. I am so very glad that this is all happening now before any of my future children could be hurt by it.

I think that the two conflicting feelings and ideas are really useful for learning something powerful about yourself. Ambivalence is uncomfortable and can lead to overthinking, but I think learning to see things in all their shades of grey (but objectively as you can) is a good thing.

I'm glad that you brought this up. As a classic overthinker, my sitch has tested my limits. Overthinkers like to have everything in black and white, but a sitch like this brings so many unanswered questions and shades of gray to the table. It has been healthy for me to just accept life's gray areas and go with the flow as best as I can (as I imagine it has been for you).

I would say that I wonder if pursuing a new R at this time is in your best interests...I think the idea of really exploring what it means to be a single person is also very healthy after a breakup of a long term relationship or marriage.

I'm thinking that you're right in questioning whether or not a new R is in my best interests. I feel like it would momentarily serve as plug to fill the gaping void that my W left, which isn't a very healthy reason to build one. Also, I like your suggestion about exploring singlehood. It has been extremely helpful to my growth as an individual to be unattached and free to grow unencumbered during this time.

I would only add this, and it is only from my perspective. Would it be fair to another person to enter into a relationship with them at this point?

Unlikely. That's probably the number one reason why I haven't pursued a new R. As much as I've entertained the idea of even a casual R with someone, I'm very afraid about breaking any hearts or slipping into something more serious when I still have very strong feelings for my W. If I'm going to be in an R, I'd like to feel that I would be able to put my whole heart in it.

I wouldn't spend a lot of time on your wife and wondering if she has a mental problem or is in a MLC...she's probably just finding herself in her 20's. I think you will just waste more time if you start to think she is "sick" and thus you owe it to her to try harder. If she comes back, great...if not, I would bet you'll be in a better place. Work on yourself and GAL for you!

You raise a very good point. My wife is pretty dang young (despite the fact that she often acts as if she is SO much older and SO much wiser than I am. Yeah, 2 years makes all the difference, doesn't it? ). It's very plausible that she just had some wild oats to sow or needed some degree of "living" before getting locked into M. Unfortunately for me, I'm not sure if I'll ever really know why she did what she did. Probably better if I don't waste time trying to find the answer.

I guess that I'll have to just keep going with the flow and taking one day at a time. Much of my heart still desires my W, but my head is starting to tell me otherwise. I guess we will see what happens. (The future lies ahead, right?)

On a GAL note, I went to yet another write-in. This one took place at a public library in a nearby town. I sat next to my W's old friend who was once again very nice to me. We conversed about what we've been doing recently and joked around quite a bit. There were quite a few people who turned out, and we had a lot of fun. I wrote around 4300 words -- finished my word quota for both today and tomorrow, and managed to nip into Monday's.

[westcoastfella]

This week hasn't been too terribly thrilling. I've been working hard, of course, and that's been keeping me plenty busy. Also, I've been getting back into my exercising. I plan to get out and bust a sweat tomorrow.

I went to another write-in today for a couple of hours. It's becoming easier and easier for me to be around people (unlike the first few months of my sitch, when being around anybody was literally painful). This is the last official write-in, but we're planning on going out to Old Country Buffet next month to celebrate the end of NaNoWriMo (or "TGIO" as it's called. I'm sure you guys can figure out what that stands for. )

I am about 5500 words away from finishing my "novel." I doubt that I'll ever bother to publish it, but it's still a testament to my hard work. It puts my old 1,000-word daily quota into perspective.

One of my co-workers has been trying to set me and another male co-worker up so we can hit bars and clubs together. This is presumably because this other guy is notably single and people know that I am technically single as well. I must admit, the idea has its merits. I like hanging out with this other guy; he's got a good attitude, and he's funny. I'm also hungry for any excuse to GAL.

As for meeting women? Hm, I don't know. The idea has seemed more attractive to me as time has gone on. I understand that I'm in my '20s and that this is a time to "live it up." I have never casually dated, not even during adolescence. I've always been very serious about my love life; I told my parents on my 17th B-day that I was looking for someone to marry, not to date. (Funny that I ended up marrying the first person that I dated seriously. I suppose I'm a man of my word.) Like I've said before, I'm not sure if I'll actually date anybody because I'm not sure if I'm all the way there, emotionally- and mentally-speaking. But the idea is still brewing.

[2thepoint]

"Like I've said before, I'm not sure if I'll actually date anybody because I'm not sure if I'm all the way there, emotionally- and mentally-speaking. But the idea is still brewing."

WCF - I know you are young and all, but if you are to successfully DB then I think dating should not be in your immediate future. First of all, it would be very easy to get caught up in an A that you may end up regretting if your W comes out of her fog. Also, if you get involved with someone too soon after the break-up the odds are extremely high that that relationship will fail as well.

I think you need to give this a lot more time. I know you are hedging right now but you should really put it out of your mind entirely for the time being.

Just my 2 cents!

[westcoastfella]

First of all, it would be very easy to get caught up in an A that you may end up regretting if your W comes out of her fog.

This is one thing I have thought of. I sometimes imagine getting into an R around the same time that my W calls me and tells me that she made a big mistake & wants to do everything she can to fix it... Thing is, like I've said before, I'm starting to get tired of playing the "waiting game" for someone who treats me this way.

I'm becoming concerned that she'll never treat me with love & respect again. Her disdain for me started almost exactly after we got married. I'm starting to believe that she's not built for marriage. (Or, at least, marriage to me.)

As a final note, MWD says that most A's don't last beyond six months, but we're quickly approaching the 6-month mark and nothing seems to be changing. These five months have been bad enough. I don't know if I could handle anything past that span of time.

Also, if you get involved with someone too soon after the break-up the odds are extremely high that that relationship will fail as well.

How soon is too soon, though? I've been separated for nearly half a year now. When does a person "start back up"? (I'm asking out of curiosity, not to "question" you. I ask questions to answer my own.)

I think you need to give this a lot more time. I know you are hedging right now but you should really put it out of your mind entirely for the time being.

In the end, this is probably what I'll end up doing. Though I feel much better than I used to, I'm still wounded. I feel that I would be pursuing an R as a salve for my hurt and loneliness. Deep down, I know I'm the type of person who could only be in an R if I was in it for the long haul.

I feel a lot of times that getting into an R, however brief, would equalize me with my W. Much of my pain comes from the idea that she's with someone else when she's "supposed" to be with me. So I guess it feels like being with someone would reduce that pain because I'm with someone, too. Does that make sense?

Again, not a good reason to get into an R. Just thought I'd throw my feelings out there for discussion.

[Nblost]

I think you should have fun and meet some new people. I wouldn't go out seeking a new, long-term relationship...but if you meet some new women right now...could be a great way to build your confidence and let you see the grass may be truly greener on the other side.

I've posted before that I wouldn't DB for a long time in your situation...you are only in your mid-20's and aren't weighed down by kids, etc. You should find someone who wants you for who you are!

Plus, I think the more you give off the vibe of having fun and moving on, it'll bring your W back if she was ever going to come back. If she doesn't make any moves, you find out sooner than later that you should move on.

You deserve some fun!