untethering

[aeolianchaos]

For my previous thread, you can go here: Not waiting, but still around.

A recap for those who don't want to read:

I'm pretty much done - at least in terms of seeing her as someone I particularly want to be in a relationship with.

I'm accepting that she is exactly who she says she is and that is not a person I find attractive or want to spend time with. At this point, I agree.. we should get a divorce, not because she betrayed me or hurt me, but because I don't really want to create a future with the person she is choosing to be. It is way too far from whatever idealized notion of her that I have clung to.

Painful.. unpleasant.. but perhaps necessary for my growth to continue.

[aeolianchaos]

Now to reply to the goodhearted people who contributed to the earlier thread:

Val: In an odd way, I don't feel much hurt or pain. I think my feelings could be described best as disappointment.. sadness.. a little disturbed by how poorly I saw who she was for so long. I would like it if she would simply show up as a person and make it clear who she really is. At least do this thing with some honesty and integrity.. that's my thinking on it.

She dodges anything that confronts what she is doing and what it says about the kinds of things she is okay with. Normal behavior, but it isn't good for growing up as a human being. She says "oh it isn't that simple" or "it isn't black and white" even as she insists that this divorce is happening and she doesn't love me at all. Her insistence on these facts is remarkable, but her dismissal of my vision as nothing more than a plea indicates how strongly she is holding on to some narrative in her head.

I don't really feel much about the not loving me part .. love isn't like a blood type or herpes.. its a choice (esp after nearly a decade) and it isn't as constant as we all like to believe when we marry someone.

Of course it would be nice if she recognized my many changes but I didn't make them for her: I made them to bring my idea of a better life into reality a little bit more. I am fine with knowing that I changed and it will be her loss if she can't acknowledge that.

Finah: Good to hear from you, man. I was wondering where you had been.

At this point, she is on her own. We will have some communication I'm sure, as the D moves ahead. But, I don't particularly like who she is choosing to be and I don't respect it either.

I'm sure she will run into herself eventually on life's terms. It may not be for a long time and probably won't be something I ever know about.

She wants to live in the delusion that she can simply start over, or have a fresh start. To me that is pure fiction.

I don't know if I'd even have an interest in Reconciliation. Too far out of the scope of future possibilities. On the other hand, the work she would do to have the courage to pursue that might make her somebody that I could respect a lot more than I do right now.

I'm not big on magical thinking, but it is interesting to me that I got woken up by someone who wanted to interview me for a job, a couple e-mails from other job prospects, another person contacting me about something I'm working on, and I had a pleasant dream last night. In some ways it feels like a real burden has been lifted off of me.

I was reading a book on advertising the other day, and there was a quote that stood out as hilarious, gross, and true: "If you have to eat a turd, don't nibble" I figure that I can get the paperwork filed by mid november (our 108 month anniversary) and then by february or march or whatever, it will be done and I won't have to deal with it as something looming anymore.

At this point, my main question is should I let her know anything or just let the L manage the process and not bother with her?

[westcoastfella]

Just wanted to chime in, Chaos, and let you know that I'm pretty much in the same place as you are. When we start out in our sitches, we land on DB.com writing (sometimes literally) "I will do absolutely anything to save my M!" Then months go by of dealing with someone who seems to have a complete lack of respect for your needs and emotions. Then that "gotta-save-my-M" attitude gets worn down awfully quick.

Eventually, the LBS has to get to a point where he/she decides, "You know what? I'm worth so much more than this." I think that this is a healthy place for an LBS to be in. No longer do we feel %100 bound to our WAS. Now we're starting to think for ourselves and make decisions that are right by us, no matter what the WAS thinks.

As for your very last question, I lean more toward the latter option. Why keep her in the loop? (Then again, I'm not even close to approaching the D process, so maybe someone else should take that one.)

[In_Shock]

yes, the honest assessment of you emotions and what you expect/need/want out of a R is very important. Your realizations about W seem to have come from a lot of soul searching, and definitely from hard hard knocks.

I think you sound like you are in a healthy place-- I've read your posts with regularity and I think you have grown so much in a good way that you really have outgrown her, unless she is able to work on herself....and she doesn't seem to be headed in that direction.

We will support you in whatever road you take. ((((((_)))))))

[Finah]

IMO let the lawyers handle it.
 
That is what they are paid to do and to make sure you don’t do anything that is not in your best interest.
 
 
I’m going thru the same thing right now.  Actually have a settlement meeting next week.
 
 
Stuff will pop up during this process that she is not going to like and you want to remain as disconnected from that as possible b/c she will take that out on you if you let her…….
 
 
 
What I’m doing and my WW doesn’t even know yet……..she won’t even see me during the meeting…..I’ll be in a separate room.
 
 
Make no mistake about this……..this is what they wanted……and lets not forget why you are even at this stage……
 
 
Be prepared for anything……it will help you…….run different scenarios thru your head and how you are going to respond to those.
 
Anything can happen when we are dealing with a WS.
 
 
What they seemed so sure of just a few days ago and for months can instantly change.
 
 
I have seen it happen on more than one occasion. 
 
 
Detach as much as possible.  It will only benefit you as you go forward with this…..the more you try and work with her……talk with her…….its only going to make it worse.
 
 
You need to get yourself to a place where you can remain clear headed and objective as possible about what is best for Aeo.
 
 
As for your WW……the future…..who knows.
 
My guess…….she will reach out again……..as this whole thing dies down…….her friends and the poor support network she does have……will grow tired of it……
 
Outside of you and your W……no one really cares about your M or why you got D.  They may listen……they may support you…..but that situation doesn’t have a major impact on their own life, they won’t put their own life on hold b/c of your WW.
 
 
And that is what eventually will get her.
 
 
Ever heard of the 80-20 rule?  B/c that is what I am talking about here.
 
 
She left the M and had an affair……..b/c the 20% she wasn’t receiving from you or the M looked pretty enticing, hence the A partner.
 
She is still going off that 20%.......but she has yet to realize she just lost the 80%.
 
And when that happens…….yikes, b/c she has all ready mentioned pieces of this 80%....it just needs to all fall in place……..and life will do that for her.
 
 
There is no reason for you to watch or be involved in the train wreck that is coming for her.

It needs to happen in order for her to take a giant step forward in life if she so chooses.
 

[Valeska19]

GM - My L and I discussed it back in June. She is liable for spousal for 1/2 the duration of time we were married as she earned over 90% of the income for the past few years and I was demonstrably supporting her by constantly giving up my own work to move to a new location for her work. We went over the details and tax statements. Hey who knows, by the time the paperwork goes through maybe I'll have something resembling a job and won't need it. It will barely cover rent anyhow and I really don't want to 'put the screws' to her.. it isn't about that for me.

Can you explain this more Aeo? Why couldn't you get a job.. did you have to move frequently? What am I missing here?

[aeolianchaos]

Can you explain this more Aeo? Why couldn't you get a job.. did you have to move frequently? What am I missing here?

We basically moved every year of our marriage.

Neither of us had a 'job' per se.. much like your work in production, as musicians we relied on getting work as freelancers while also pursuing long term work through the audition circuit.

I had been working more often than her back in 2008, but when she got a year-long contract and we relocated in 2009, there really wasn't anything in terms of freelance work available to me. However, we had been operating on a basis of trying to get by on only gigs.. not getting part time jobs to supplement that. So we would go through lean times, and then times where things were 'ok'.. although it was usually pretty lean.

In hindsight, that kind of thinking didn't serve either of us well.. but it was the plan we followed.

Over the past 2.5 years, her gig schedule blew up and she got to go on at least three European tours while my work withered and died. This was part of my hitting rock bottom.. if you wikipedia burnout, I was around phases 10 and 11 for most of the year leading up to that point.

It sukked. big time. And yet I didn't even recognize it as it was happening. I defended my actions and choices and tenaciously clung to the idea that I was doing something to make myself happy at the same time as I was making myself more and more miserable.

[Valeska19]

Aeo,

Thanks for clearing that up. It's always good to have a little history in regards to this stuff

So... You said it's not about screwing her.. so what is it about?

Why do you feel you deserve alimony?

[25yearsmlc]

Aeo,

Thanks for clearing that up. It's always good to have a little history in regards to this stuff

So... You said it's not about screwing her.. so what is it about?

Why do you feel you deserve alimony?

I was wondering the same thing. No kids either? And less than a 10 year marriage which is therefore not a "long term" marriage.
Hey I'm Not trying to bash you but am just curious. If you take alimony do you worry you might feel a tad emasculated or regret it later? I'm being sincere.

Just seems you were both originally in it together, but in her mind--and in reality, lately at least, she contributed way more AND you were miserable to boot...(rock bottom)

No offense meant.

[aeolianchaos]

Val,

I am entitled to pursue spousal support because in the course of our marriage, I made considerable sacrifices in support of the direction that she wished to take her career, even at the expense of my own earning ability within my profession.

This was something we had agreed upon doing before we ever married : we would go where the gig was, and if the other person got a better gig, we would go there.

It is about me not going broke as I try to get my $h!t together and deal with the fact that I do not have anything established.

I have not filed for it yet, even as I could have from the date of separation, because I had hoped to have landed some work by now and I recognize that she is not working much so far this year. Again, as in our M, me protecting her from the consequences of her choices.

I'd like to think there is a 99% chance the spousal support issue becomes moot and that I am working FT earning enough to support myself. I'd rather out-create this situation than feel reactive to it.

25,

I didn't write the laws.. yes it is a short term marriage and therefore the period of which she would be accountable for it would also be relatively brief.

I get your perspective about the emasculation question and there is a part of me that wonders if that isn't true. That perhaps even some of my depression was related to feeling a lack of efficacy in providing for myself and my wife.

I grew up in a household where my father worked quite a bit to create a successful business (he has expressed regret that he doesn't feel like he was as present in our childhoods as he would have liked to be) and my mom raised the kids and helped with the accounting. I do wonder if there is a part of my subconscious that projects that kind of dynamic onto myself and judges me very harshly for it.

At this point, my position remains that I would prefer for it to be entirely a moot point. I'd much rather simply not need it. I am hopeful that this could be the case, and there is no way I would take it for the full term to which I am entitled. If I did file for it, I would most certainly waive it once gainfully employed.

I can understand how you perceive the situation as us in it togther and then her contributions exceeded mine. I don't believe that is an entirely accurate perception.

She did EARN more than me. This is true. She did not SACRIFICE anything. She did not drop everything mid-season to pack up and move an entire apartment in the middle of winter while balancing a schedule that involved concerts at Carnegie Hall (a days drive from where we lived). She only had to drive to the new city and start working. This occurred previously when I moved us from one side of the country to another with a smile on my face, while she spent a month working every other day in Europe. I didn't mind doing it, and felt it fair at the time.. but I do bristle a bit at the suggestion that those contributions are without value (I am not saying you are suggesting this.. that is my reaction to being devalued by her).

She did not have a husband taking from her and refusing to contribute nothing. I did not expect to be 'provided for' and did not expect her to buy things for me. It isn't as if I wasn't paying for anything.. like I said our financial situation was very unconventional and geared towards allowing us both the space to work on our craft. As such, we had saved up a significant amount of 'cushion' when we could and I continued to use 'mine' to pay rent and cover other expenses (car stuff, some groceries, etc..)

This year, I liquidated a decent chunk of my personal pre-marital investments to capture a capital loss to compensate for her failure to correctly fill our a W-2 on her biggest gig. I used the money from that liquidation to pay rent and finance our unconventional work-style.

My mindset, because of where I was at with my own earning power at that point, was extremely frugal and I definitely felt uncomfortable about spending money in the ways she wanted to and did. One of the ways I contributed was being responsible for managing our finances/doing taxes.. so my picture of our financial situation and how long it was sustainable for was far more detailed than hers.

In many ways we lived different lifestyles despite being married under the same roof. I would never buy new clothes... she shopped nearly weekly. I didn't feel comfortable spending money on going to eat frequently.. she would go out to lunch with her friends quite often. I didn't feel like spending our limited funds on booze was a great idea, she was probably spending $100 or more on wine every month. Might not seem like much if you have decent stable income.. but in its totality it is clear that I was not 'taking' frivolously as she worked hard to earn that money.

This isn't to say things were entirely equitable or that she did not have plenty of quite legitimate and accurate grievances. And in hindsight, I regret not giving all of this much closer attention. There is a LOT I could have done differently, although I don't know how well I would have without recognizing my own issues first.

The burnout/anxiety/depression stuff complicates things. As you are well aware, that kind of thing can really impede someone's ability to carry out their work and be effective. And Denial tends to be a big part of it, which only exacerbates the problem. I can't deny that I was miserable and frustrated about my career and life in general. That part is very true. However even that was not 24/7. I would have periods of 'up' where I thought that if I just did this thing differently then stuff would change. I would have optimism but it wasn't enough to break the patterns of distorted thinking and impostor syndrome that would kick in after a week or two.

I can see where that may have been very frustrating to her, if she perceived it as a hopeful sign and then it went away. She might have taken it personally and felt fooled by it.