Curve balls? Heck, I don't even play softball!!!

[In_Shock]

Crimson -- W has told me several times "I don't owe you sh@t!" Ok, 13 years and a son, nahhhhhh you owe me nothing. Just go chase that feeling of lust/dopamine/high you seem to want right now. I'm good....

Not sure WHAT W could have said to make me take notice before? LIke I said, I admit i was complacent and thought we were past the 'hump' and would make it for the long haul. Little did I know OW was waiting to pounce ---- oppportunistic vulture that she is. HOW do these people sleep at night??????

[Crimson]

Sadly, they sleep at night with our spouses and partners....for now! But we aren't done yet!

[Abbey]

They sleep at night, because many of these parasites and vultures have zero morals or conscience. Dragging behind the sleigh... too good for em' ... my fave... Hit by a snowplow,... going TOP speed

Night, Night
Abs

[In_Shock]

LOL good one Crimson. Horrible on
THIS TOO SHALL PASS THIS TOO SHALL PASS THIS TOO SHALL PASS
e, but at the same time, clever!

Yes, we WILL MAKE IT. How, right now I'm not sure. I'm in the worst place emotionally i've been in months (just the holiday sh@t) and it feels like it's forever, but I keep telling myself


But how in the he@@ does someone live with knowing they are a HOMEWRECKER???????? I cannot fathom it??? OW is out with W right now.... S and I are here at home..... Doesn't that OW even feel any sorrow for this precious little dude who needs his family intact?????????????

Holiday season ---- BE OVER!!!!!!

NOW would be nice......

[In_Shock]

LOL @ abbey....... yeah, the sleigh IS too good for them. A long walk off a short plank...?

[JustStunned]

IS each thing or moment we think of as a milestone is emotionally tough. The feelings loom and close in upon us. You are not alone, and I know you know that. You are not alone. I read Val’s thread also. I have been there and maybe a bit lower.

Pistol in my lap, letters written, two thoughts and a memory gave me pause to reconsider.

It is an abandonment of the ones who loves us. I will not do to them what she has done to me. I am better than that, better than her, commitment was a core value once, and it will be again.

She predicted I would. I will not give her the satisfaction of being right. I will not give her that power. I will live and live well. I will paint my happiness where she can see it. It will be genuine happiness. The best revenge is living well. If I need to use revenge as a mindset to get me to a better place so be it. I will reassess when I get there.

Yes I became angry. Anger is a powerful emotion and can be used to motivate to action.

The memory requires a story, bear with me. It was 1937. Mom was 10 years old. Her father, distraught and depressed killed himself with a pistol. The family he left behind nearly starved that winter. They lost possession of the farm the following summer. The memory is of how mom speaks of those times and the anger she has for her father. She speaks lovingly of her father most of the time until she comes to the consequences of that act. I decided not to leave a legacy like that for my children.

There are other people in your life than W and your son. There are other people your life touches. There is truth to the premise of the movie “It’s a wonderful life”. Don’t take what seems to be the easy path. Do the work. Take the power over your happiness away from her. You control your happiness, assert your control. There will be setbacks, accept them, adjust, and move forward again.

We all want our spouses to WAKE THE FRACK UP. Some do in time to reconcile. Perhaps ours will. In the mean time we need to get on with living, and live well.

[sunshine76]

IS I too read your post on Val's thread and I just want you to know that you are not alone. I think there are alot of us here that have had those very same thoughts. The important thing is that you made the right decision and believe it or not you will continue to do so with or without your W.

Sometimes it is difficult to have faith in ourselves so I just want you to know that I have absolute faith that you are going to come out of this mess as a strong, healthy, happy woman. Your son is lucky to have a role model like you!

[Valeska19]

So here is my question IS and others....to all LBSers
what is it that the WAS could have said BEFORE an affair or before leaving

that would have made enough of an impact to get you to change, the way you are now?

is there ANYTHING they could have said or done that would have gotten YOUR attention AND Changed You?

other than leaving you?

Advice for the advice giver, anyone?

For me it was communication. I wish my wife would have just told me something. I learned so much her when she started opening up.

I know I would have changed if she would have said something.. because even though she has hurt me badly, my heart still breaks for her.

25 - Are you familiar with Imago Therapy? There are alot of DB techniques involved but it creates a safe place to for couples to talk.

That what it seems to be needed - IMO. It's human nature to put up our defenses when we feel like we are getting attacked. It's hard to express our concerns without placing "blame".

Imago therapy really helped my w and I communicate. I often believe that if we kept with it, we would not be here.. because even though we were both angry - when we entered that safe space - our love for each kept us present. Our love for each other grew.

That's when the walls came down. That's when the progress happened.

That would be my suggestion at this stage of the game.

Sorry for the hijack.

[Valeska19]

@ IS,
I saw your post of my wall. I am soo sorry you are hurting this badly. I know the holiday season doesn't help.

I don't know if you are purposefully sabotaging your chances. I agree with 25 - you are smart and seem to "get it" intellectually... so what's the deal?

IMHO - it's because you are still scratching the surface of your emotions. There are surface emotions and deep emotions. Usually the surface emotion is what you are projecting - but is NOT the deep emotion you are feeling. You MUST deal with the deep emotion in order for the surface emotions to stay changed.

I never used to be able to STFU either. I always talked about R.

I wanted to her know that I cared and could change. I wanted to understand how she could treat me so badly, I wanted her acceptance.. I wanted to know she still loved me.

Why... because I had wrapped up all my self worth in HER. If she thought I was worthy - then I felt worthy.

Now I KNOW i'm worthy. I don't need to tell my wife I have changed or that I love her. I just do and in my heart, that works for me.

So now when I see her.. it's SO MUCH easier to STFU. It's easy to not talk about R or resist the urge to ask things to "get approval".

I've dealt with the Deep Emotion. Therefore my surface emotions changed as well.

So it's time to start looking deep IS. Start looking into what your r was really about for you. I know you are reading about codependency.. what rings true for you (if anything)?

If you don't dig deep, this tragedy will consume you. It will strip you of everything you have.

I saw my uncle last week. He is also going through a D and has been for almost 2 yrs.

He's gone back to alcohol. He's even popping pills. He's so angry and hurt. He projects his manhood by texting multiple women but complaining about them all.

Obviously him and I chose different paths. My heart breaks for him. That he let his pain, and his w's selfishness break him. So sad.

But here is the thing... HIS CURRENT STATE IS NOT HIS WIFE'S FAULT... IT IS HIS OWN!

He has CHOSEN to allow his w and his sitch destroy him... and I'll tell you what... his son is suffering because of it too.

Is that what you want for you S4? I think not........

... so get help. We are here for you but what are you doing about getting support from "Physical" bodies??

Divorce groups are working wonders for Rick and JB.

I understand the church thing. I hate the title "Christian". I hate that people have taken a loving father and used him to promote hatred....

.... I also feared trusting in something and being let down. After all, I trusted my w and she just ripped my heart out and squashed it with a semi- truck.

.... but I have walked where you are walking... and I didn't know what else to do. I knew that I wanted to fight, but also wanted to die. I knew I was failing at handling it on my own. I was not strong enough.

So I walked into Church and I put it out there. I no longer was to prideful to admit I was too weak. I no longer let the fear rule me.

I decided to take control of my life.

I am not saying to go back to church or join a D group (although I may be suggesting it ) but d@mnit IS - TAKE BACK YOUR LIFE.

YOU ARE IN CONTROL HERE. NOT YOUR WIFE!

You are too smart, caring, and loving to allow this to destroy you. You owe it to your son. He!! you owe it to yourself.

Your w is just a person. She is not God and does not determine your self worth. She does not determine your happiness. She only has the control over you that you allow her to have. SO STOP GIVING IT TO HER.

It's time to start fighting. It's time to put your needs back in the spotlight.

So let's start now - there's no better time. How about a small baby step. Tell me 5 things that you make you feel better about yourself. It can be easy..when I first started it was this

1. Wear make-up everyday
2. Dress feminine at least once a wk.
3. If I go out w/ friends. Buy one a drink
4. Save all my recyclables and give them to the dude that digs through my trash.
5. Post only positive things on Facebook.

See how that easy that was... so come on.. what's your 5 things?

Define them... do them!

You can do this!

(((( ))))

[aeolianchaos]

Hi IS,

I've been taking a break from too much time on here. I did want to post to you though because something about the pain you're experiencing resonates with how I remember feeling last year and maybe I can offer some kind of support, empathy, or constructive ideas.

The Holiday season doesn't help -- it is packed with affect and if your mind is focused on lack, the contrast only seems stronger.

Yet here is a fairly anonymous person typing a message to you on xmas eve at 3am. Not because they are obliged to, but because on some level we are interconnected. I see your pain and know what pain feels like. I think about your confusion and I know that I know what that desire for clarity and understanding feels like, too. So we are connected in the very least that while our personal experience is different, we both know joy and suffering in some ways.

I think what Val says has a lot of wisdom to it and it transcends any one religion.

This issue of emotion can be a tricky one but I think that one way to think about it is that we are going to have emotions - the Dalai Lama has emotions - fear, anger, love, joy.. - and we need to find a way to understand our emotions and also figure out what kinds of thoughts are playing a role in them.

I agree with Val that it may be helpful to take a deep look at some of your feelings.. but also the thoughts you have that are linked to them. See if you can't bring an objective lens to that and just accept whatever is at this moment. Maybe you think things that are so f#cked up (in your own opinion) that you don't even want to acknowledge that you are thinking it.

Why? What happens if you accepted those thoughts? It's what's happening anyways, isn't it? Maybe those things aren't the ONLY thing you're thinking anyways. Maybe they are just one piece of a bigger puzzle. We can't work skillfully with what we can't recognize.

Maybe you don't even fully recognize these emotions or something in you doesn't feel safe enough to even fully experience them yet. That's okay, too. You will move forward in time. Just accept where you are right now is a good place to begin.

I am not religious - not even theistic - but I am very fond of Buddhist philosophy and so I wanted to share something that clicked for me.

Susan Piver's website is very good and has a lot of interesting thoughts about relationships. She has a post about confidence where she talks about some of the teachings her teacher Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche shares about how to build confidence and how to create a 'container' from which confidence will spontaneously rise:

Here they are, basically copied from her site:

1- Clean up your space. (Doesn’t matter if it’s inexpensive or high-end: a clean, neat space is dignified and good)
2- Wear nice clothes. (Not expensive, necessarily; laundered, well-fitting, and so on)
3- Spend time with people who increase your energy. (As an act of joy, not resentment)
4- Eat good food. (Not necessarily “healthy” or gourmet–means fresh; high quality ingredients)
5- Spend time in the natural world.


I personally think Meditation has been one of my most important undertakings in terms of coping with all of this - both in dealing with the stressors (ala prog. relaxation) and trying to grow up as a person (more trad. awareness-oriented meditations). It might be useful for you - there is a lot about "learning to become friends with your self" that might be helpful in learning to treat yourself with the same kind of loving kindness you may already be treating others with. i think if you can do that.. it's a place where wonderful things can happen.

The pain you're experiencing is probably still pretty tightly linked to the stories that you're telling yourself. I think that if you can find out some of those stories.. maybe you can take some of the power away from them?

You'll get there.. and there will hopefully be a better place than that other there was.