Grace, Love, Compassion, & Faith - It ain't easy!

[westcoastfella]

Sounds to me like this conversation went pretty well. You had a lot of great, calming, validating statements -- "Speak your mind" and "Fear can do that" jumped out at me as sounding particularly strong. Great job!

As for the "awkward pause," it seems to me that such conversations between two people transitioning from being together to no longer being together are bound to have at least one every once in a while. Everyone's trying to learn the new dance moves but not sure if they should keep some of the old ones.

[Valeska19]

Okay. Time to be honest. I'm not sure how long these feelings would last.. but here we go.

Val, what drives the desire to maintain no contact?

My inability to detach. I can't seem to not have expectations. I assume she cares vs. just making conversation. I assume her heart is softening when really it is just another control tactic.

I love her and there will always be a part of me that hopes she is getting better. That she will wake up and stop trying to control or that she will think of how things hurt me.

I can still pray and hope for that.. but to be in contact with the rollercoaster is killing my positive energy.

I've been upset with myself that I'm not able to detach or stop the hope.. but I have to accept myself for where I am. And for me... life is better with her not in it.

Initially I went dark as a tactic, and then I realized it was to carve out a safe place for me to heal. I’ve healed and gotten stronger. I am more the mean motor-scooter I was when I met STBX. Yet I’ve mellowed a bit. Not as mean, not as lean, but still _ _...... I’ve had no direct contact since Oct. I know I’ll comport myself well when next I see her, maybe we’ll even speak.

Is it fear, are you protecting yourself? I think you are stronger than you give yourself credit. An awful lot of water has passed under the bridge. You have put a lot of effort into yourself. You are not the same person you were. You will recognize traps previously caught in. You can avoid these. You can DB well.

I don't think it's fear... however I do feel that I am protecting myself. I have been thinking and I have been through every kind of control tactic with her in the past 2 months. She has been nice to me, she has ignored me, she has baited me, she has guilted me, she has cut me....

.... I'm sorry... but how much more should I take of it? Grit posted something to me about why do I accept less from someone than I do myself......

....and for awhile... I didn't understand. I thought I was accepting by saying "I get it". I get it that she controls everything out of fear, because her parents didn't think that she is important.

I get it that she is fearful of me lawyering up. Whether that be because deep down she knows she has done me harm, whether it's because of how people hurt her, or because that is what she would do to me.

I get it... and I truly accept where she is.. but that doesn't mean I have to continue to allow her to control me. Accepting does not mean staying in harm's way.

I think that is what Grit was trying to show me. It just took me awhile to get there.

Or are you truly done, ready to shut the door, to move on? Is it something else?

I don't necessarily think I'm ready to shut the door.. I am just beginning to believe that is what God is showing me to do.

My pastor told me once that I need to get out of the way... so God can work in my w.. because I'm the person that she abuses, the one she controls.. and yes maybe she will take that to her next R but if I don't get out of the way.. she will remain the same.

And that's what I am seeing. Yes she wants a D.. and for the most part she acts like she wants me out of her life.. but all the interactions are the same. As I try to change it, she bucks hard against it.

Don't get me wrong, I would love for nothing more to having a loving relationship with my wife.. however that is not in my cards. I know that my heart has changed... I don't feel hers has.

And that's okay, but I need to keep moving forward with my changes and accept her for where she is......

.... and where she is... isn't someone I want to be with. Not as a partner in life, not as a friend.

I love every relationship that I currently have.. I am not attacked or manipulated. I can express my feelings and hear theirs.. and work it out.

It's beautiful.

But to go into conversation after conversation with my wife and fight the control.. is exhausting. To look back and say "man she hasn't changed a bit" is defeating.

I've posted this before about seeing the fire and knowing that I have to get burned to get out on the other side.

I knew that when I started getting control of my life, my w would act like this. I hoped she wouldn't do these things.. but it's hard to watch your fears happen. I didn't take back control because I knew it would be he!!. And well.. here I am.

Yes I DB well. I DB well because I believe in it's principles. Not just with w, but with everyone. Validating feelings, changing parts of ourselves to make the relationship better. Whether that is friendship, marriage, or work relationship.

It has changed my life and I don't look back and regret all the effort. I don't regret loving my wife when she is being so unlovable.

But I need to love my wife from a distance. I need to let her go. Let God work in her. And get myself out of harms' way for awhile.


Sometime ago I copied this about coming out of the dark. Just in case. IDK it may have something for you. (((Val)))

See also the fav in DB

"Choosing the medium" is an important decision when it comes to contact with your partner. Should it be by phone, text message, face-to-face, e-mail, cards, letters, television ads, sky-writing, etc., etc.? (What are some more possibilities?)

They all have their advantages, and disadvantages. "more of what works, less of what doesn't", and "180's" come into play a lot here.

Phone calls can be good if you're in the right frame of mind, and gives you the ability to be the one to end the call first. However, you may catch THEM at a bad time, and not end up with the results you want. It doesn't allow for seeing expressions, although a lot can be told by the tone of their voice. Keep in mind the possibility that if a phone call DOES go bad, you may have called at the wrong time.

Voice-mail and answering machines can work well, as long as you don't fret over any time-delays for a response.

In my situation, my wife had a LOT going on while we were apart from each other. Phone calls didn't work because either it was a bad time, she kept getting interupted, or her phone battery would go dead. E-mail didn't work, because she had no computer access. Face-to-face didn't work because of all that she had going on in her life, and this method usually turned out bad.

One thing that DID work well for me was cards. She always loved the cards I gave to her, because of the things that I would write inside of them. Made her cry almost all of the time (happy tears, btw!). So, I began by sending her cards, some funny, friend type of ones, without all the mushy writing. No OR talk, just hey, how you doing. I sent her 2 cards for her birthday, one from me, one from the dog, both very funny. I also sent her one around the time of an annual trade show of mine that we were both very involved in, telling her my appreciation of the tolerance and enthusiasm she had for how involved I was with this show in years past. I skipped any cards for our anniversary and Valentine's Day.

How did the cards work? Well, pretty good actually. It took over a week for her to acknowledge that she got them, and, even then, it wasn't a huge response. However, after I sent them, she did initiate the contact with me by phone, and made it a point to "make the time" for us to talk a bit. The talks soon began to become more frequent, for a longer duration, and slooowly became much deeper.

Text messaging back and forth on our phones to each other also worked great. It didn't interupt anything that either of us was doing, it forced me to keep the message briefer, and have no expectations for an immediate response.

And, no, I never went as far as doing the TV ads, or sky-writing!

What are some more possibilities for "mediums"? What things haven't you thought of, or tried, yet? What small contacts could you do to start the butterfly effect in motion?

I don't know. What works for ME is limited contact. Emails only.

Does this bring me closer to W? No it doesn't.. In fact, it pisses her off.

But what I am supposed to... Seriously?

It's time to protect myself. It's time to start healing. I can't do that by ripping of the d@mn bandaid because she decides to be nice to me for a month.

I hope I'm not sounding righteous.. I'm not angry, or doing this out of bitterness.

As I said, I want to be the best Val. I just feel it's time to make those hard decisions to get me there.

It's time I truly turn this over to God... and let him take the wheel on this one.

[Valeska19]

Journaling -

I've been thinking about my health insurance for the month of January.

Originally when I was supposed to go on Cobra, my first payment wasn't until February.

My w wants me to pay for all of January - even though I didn't find out mid January.

Originally I had said yes.

Both my mom and sister asked why I would do that? My initial response was because its no longer my w's place to take care of me......

..... and whilst I believe that to be true, I wonder if paying for January is saving her from the consequences of her actions.

My w mentioned that she couldn't afford to pay my insurance during mediation in October. Rather than discussing options with me. She just took me off. She didn't look into if she could legally do that. She didn't care if I couldn't afford the Cobra.

And although I understand those feelings, I kinda feel that the fact she now has to pay December is a consequence of her not doing things the right way.

She told me on the phone that she had "no idea... and that her HR sukks"

So what? She is a grown adult. I feel those are just excuses. The fact remains that she did what she wanted.

I don't know. I'm just beginning to feel that I should only pay for when I became aware of the insurance reinstatement.

She will be pissed of course. Think I'm punishing her again for the D.

In actuality, I really just want to stop feeling the need to "save her" or feeling the fear that if I do what is fair to me.. it will piss her off.

I told myself if money wasn't an issue.. I would pay it no doubt.. but my sister was like "it's not about the money, it's about allowing your w to feel the consequences of her actions."

Do I truly believe that I should pick up the bill for January as a "I can take care of myself" move.. or should I stand my ground and say "I will pay from when you made me aware of it".

Urgh.. this kinda of growth is really hard..

[BklynMom]

I do not think you should have to pay for December. It is absolutely her responsibility. However this is going to cause your W to explode.

I think this may be a situation to practice being happy over being right.

[westcoastfella]

Val, just wanted to say that everything you wrote in your reply to JS...I feel all of it, too. Every bit. You're not alone in experiencing those thoughts & emotions. So if you have decided to go dark save for business or emergencies because it's the best thing for you, I support it fully.

If your W truly wants to recover the R with you, she will do the work necessary to get it (and you) back. If she doesn't after you step away and start traveling down your own path, then it really wasn't ever meant to be.

[Valeska19]

@ Bklyn

Thank you for your input. You may be right with January.

She already expressed her dislike of paying for December on the phone.

*shrug* Oh well.

@ West.

I agree and believe that about her wanting to come back.. and honestly I deserve for someone to fight for me in that way.

If she doesn't.. that's fine. Sure it hurts.. but after 13 months of this, I have gotten back my confidence. I have defined my morals and values.

Journal -

Have been GALing the Sh!t out my week. Spent alot of time focusing on strengthening the relationships with the people in my life. This includes professional and personal.

Reached out to a few professionals who I worked with alot before my huge push to become more positive. One director said that I was "glowing" and could really see change in me.. but was still hesitant about hiring me. (Our last job together was very difficult and I got very negative).

I understood. I told her that I just wanted her to find the best assistant director and if that wasn't me, that was ok. I could have justified my actions, but there aren't any really. We all have choices to make. I made the wrong ones with her film.

I won't beat myself up for it either. I'm only human and my sitch did effect my work at times. I just need to keep growing.

My w has not sent me my insurance quote for the month yet. She told me in passing that she was swamped so I'm sure that is what it is.

I've gone ahead and composed an email saying that I am ready to sign the divorce papers, however want to take care of both Chicago and LA. That once she has collected the papers to let me know and we could get together and finalize everything but our taxes.

I have not sent it Hitting "send" is not an easy button to push.

There is this voice in my head that says "Let Go, Give it over to God.. it's time".

And there is an equal voice that says "But I'm scared of what will happen".

It's hard when what I want in life does not match what is God's best for me. I realize that nothing is ever set in stone, and nothing has to be truly over for good....

.... but I fear it all the same.

I'm just constantly praying for peace to push that damn send button. That I can rest in faith that my future will truly be better..

[~¤DG¤~]

V- your future will be better, because you are putting the work in to ensure that it does. I feel we go through these hard times to appreciate the good ones.

As for the insurance, if she took you off insurance without telling you, then she should be responsible for it. Although, you said you would do it, and I don't know if it is a good idea to go back on your word.

Like the other poster said, it comes down to being happy or being right. Which do you prefer?

[JustStunned]

Val, many of us have the same feelings, else we would have signed the papers long ago. I find it odd that many aspects of my sitch parallels your posts. Odd b/c we have different backgrounds and ages. I guess it just proves that people are people with more similarities than differences.

A good friend asked me the other day what “moving on” meant to me. I’ve been mulling that over. I think when I can remember the positives of our marriage amidst all of the negatives and control attempts spewing forth and I can use that memory to frame the negatives, I will have moved on. I remember a time when STBX and I just clicked. We were as much as one person as two people could hope to be and that is what I will remember of us. That is the positive I choose to remember. I am not there yet. It is something for me to work on.

I do know I deserve the positives. Having achieved and maintained for a time a mutually supportive marital relationship I know it can be done. I will accomplish it again when I am ready. So will you.

You are getting stronger each day. Try not to over think it. You’ll press Send when you are ready.

[JustStunned]

Val, I continue to struggle with moving on. I think most of us do. Recently I posted this in another forum. It is after more reflection.

"Truthfully, I do not know what moving on feels or looks like. I don't think I will ever forget aspects of my marriage or the love I still feel. I do know we could not sustain the relationship it evolved into. I do know STBX did not wish to work on changing the relationship into something we could sustain. I know I cannot stop living, so I must make the best life I can. Perhaps someday I'll pause look around and realize I have moved on. Perhaps some of us must reach our destination to realize we have arrived."

[Valeska19]

A good friend asked me the other day what “moving on” meant to me. I’ve been mulling that over. I think when I can remember the positives of our marriage amidst all of the negatives and control attempts spewing forth and I can use that memory to frame the negatives, I will have moved on. I remember a time when STBX and I just clicked. We were as much as one person as two people could hope to be and that is what I will remember of us. That is the positive I choose to remember. I am not there yet. It is something for me to work on.

That is a very fine goal to work on.. and one that resonates with me also.

You are getting stronger each day. Try not to over think it. You’ll press Send when you are ready.

Yes I believe so too.

As for moving on.. I know that it will mostly likely be a destination.. but I like to work on stuff.. it's hard to just let things happen.

Thanks JS!! Now prepare yourself for the long journal, I'm about to write.