Rebuilding myself from the ground- up

[exquisitetobe]

Update..
diagnose: Anxiety, depression
treatment: ic and med for a year since I have been like this for 5 yrs.. Not something that will go away tomorrow..
on my next apptm, we will discuss anxiety precise. How to manage it, breathing practice etc..
She wasn' t surprised when I shared my story to see anxiety in me. We talked for 2 hours. I felt good coming out. I am very happy that I went back.

Now, XH:
Him and OW came to pick up D11 for a week. D14 will go only wedn to sunday. They will come and get her then.
I got a good look at OW and OMG ????? She is not someone I would associate with.. I can' t believe XH is attracted to her...
I also got to see XH when they turned around in the street.. He looks like crap.. I feel sorry for him. It hurt to see him like this..
D14 said: " mom, dad smelled really bad and it is stuck in my nose."
Me: What do you mean? like cologne??
D14: no, he stinks.
Me: He looked like crap
D14: They both look like druggies..


yark !!!!

[exquisitetobe]

BD was 5 yrs ago.. I still don' t understand what XH is going through.. I see it as a mental illness.. An unbalance of hormones or a personality disorder???? I don' t know..

But one thing I had to think about was how I would handle this. I tried to change myself for him, I tried to stand by him even " monster ". I tried to be reliable for him. I was destroying myself , my values and my principals. I was going against myself, becoming someone I didn' t respect. I saw myself as patathic and weak. How could I accept the unacceptable. How could I stand by someone who lies, takes advantage of others, disrespect everyone, steal, betray and much much more. It wasn' t right.. HE made those choices all by himself, not me. I was becoming like him. abusing him verbally, disrespecting him, wanting him back then push him away because of his betrail.
I put the attention on ME and MY CHOICES. I wanted to be a role model for my kids. I wanted to teach them NOT TO LET ANYONE treat you badly.

Sometimes, I wonder if MLC is not just an excuse for bad behavior.. And depression, the result of those behaviors..
I did not become an alcoholic because my father was one !! That would be an excuse to justify my wrong doing..
I did not push XH away because he pushed me away.. I did because of his abuse, his lies, his betrail, his lack of respect for others and his breaking laws with disregard of consequences. NO LAWS apply to him.. AND I MEAN NONE!!!!
He gets away with everything because of the badge he carries. Everything is a joke. Even our separation agreement sign infront of the judge. EVEN THE 2 CALLS I have made to the police on him.

ALL this in search of HAPPINESS ????? And, in the process made everything worst then what it was when we were a whole family.. CRONGRATS XH !!

I am now living life my way !!! Am I selfish for it?? I don' t think so because no decisions are made with only me in mind.. My kids are ALWAYS INTO consideration. Even when I think about dating.

And that is my life and thought 5 yrs after BD

[beatrice]

Hi, I want to validate all that you have said. MLC isn't an excsue for bad behavior, but I believe that a true MLC - that complete change of a kind loving person into a total monster, is a mental illness.

So we can feel compassion for the suffering while standing aside from the behaviours. My xh is a completely different person to me his children and his old friends. I honestly do not think this is nnormal nor do i think he was acting for the previous 35+ years, in my case.

Something is clearly happening, and we cannot get sucked in to their drama. They may never recover. It doesn't help that next to nothing is known about MLC to the extent that most of us here even when we have seen a therapist, and the therapist has met the spouse, remain confused about what is going on.

We are counselled not to worry about what is going on, and that is right insofar as we cannot change it, and it isn't about us. But it is disturbing to have the centre ripped out of your life, and people say things like 'People change' 'Time to move on' as the best possible advice. Which it is as things stand currently.

I wonder what our children will feel like if and when they discover that it is, for example, a hormone imbalance?

A good friend of mine had a mother who was a paranoid schizophrenic. She spent much of his childhood and adolescence in and out of mental hospitals, and when at home scarcely functioned. His father bailed when he was in his late teens, and he soldiered on until one day when he was in his twenties and she was nearly fifty they discovered a drug that controlled it. Totally. She now has a happy and fulfilled life.

She was crazy, and I mean really crazy for 25 years due to a chemical imbalance. I am a great believer in therapy, but sometimes it is something else.

I do agree that the seeds appear to be sown early in life, but as you say, the child of an alcoholic doesn't have to become. Maybe the early childhood experience means that the brain is slower to produce certain chemicals. Don't know, just speculating.

Bottom line is though, we have to stay clear, they are toxic and irresponsible people. But I am now at a point, eight years on, when I can see the damage, and the misery he has caused himself and others. We have largely healed and have good lives. His is a mess. It is so sad.

[nero]

Hiya beatrice and Exquisite_:

wow girls - heavy and true stuff. i know what you are saying Exquisite:

I saw myself as patathic and weak. How could I accept the unacceptable. How could I stand by someone who lies, takes advantage of others, disrespect everyone,.... It wasn' t right.. HE made those choices all by himself, not me.

i feel badly about myself for not ditching him every day- on one hand i think his "bond" for me is love (true) and on the other hand i think he's a greedy pig of a man and this ow stuff may be a response to his mlc - and i think it is, and childhood trauma (wah wah) - BUT i don't think i believe anymore it will go away or ever stop. that it will ALWAYS be the stinkin ball in my court to end it all- and i find that incredibly difficult. i keep waiting for the day when staying in his life is more awful than leaving it. I can't seem to arrive - .

i don't like what it makes me feel about me- or think of my ingrained "doormatness" or whatever impels me to always stop- take a step back - not "go there" - remain calm- and suck up all the crappola treatment around me - including anger from sisters and so on. I feel like i'm a normal nice per son in any sitch with non-relatives or H - but with them- i stink. i think it's the ONLY way to be, to resist getting into screaming matches or whatever - yet i resent myself fornot being more forceful and getting a bit of equality or maybe appreciation or respect for self. (boy DID THT SOUND CHEESY OR WHAT?)

no one is hitting me over the head with a hammer - but seems like i am waaaay more "get along-ie" than anyone of them- and i hate it- yet i keep telling self to just get thru this estate and then i don't have to "do" a darn thing in life or even see anhyone if i don't want to. is that weird or what? I ALWAYS seem to see it all as my "job" and responsibility to make it happen and m ake it thru - geeeeez - I feel like and sound like a big fat wah wah baby - hearing myself- i need some "grow a backbone therapy & tips". i don't even want to be a boss of them all- i just want absence of "attitude" from everyone. see- you two guys are probably scratching your head and thinking what a sap i sound like - i even think it!!!

this mlc thing can sure wreck one's (healthy) ego - can't it???

can we really come outof this liking ourselves for our "strength" (and this has been the hardest thing i've ever dealt with) - rather than despising ourselves for our stupid conciliatory - "butt kissing" if that's what it is? somehow keeping controlled and allowing him space - feels mighty like allowing him to S allover me and i just lay there- and maybe it makes me a jerk?

he's not "abusing "me in any other sense than i KNOW about ow and that feels like treason to me. i feel betrayed and compared and coming up short. is that me or him (or an intrinsic part of being "replaced" with this stupid cow of a ow i knew and was friends with and she may be okay- but she's no me!!)

I agree and i think also that it's the "thinking" that makes me crazy and unable to sleep. keeping busy in day and distracted at nite to sleep don't seem to be a good answer (yet are all i have) to that all.

i agree with Bea- it's insanity- but where the heck does that leave us. i had a childhood friend that had her first schizophrenic episode at about 15 - with my sister & I- scary and totally different person. controlled with drugs nicely- BUT reoccurs - not frequently, but it's "out there" always for past 40 or so years. it is the scariest thing. when you lose logic to reason- you have nothing to work with.

my h seeems "normal" - except now i know (or feel) blamed and judged continually - because of the dopey junk he threw out there at me as allll the "reasons" this wasmy own fault. yeah - rite... .

Even now- when he's seemingly normal & nice - but still has ow in the background- I can't get past knowing about her and hating it. it taints everything and (i feel) is always between us and what the heck is within our power to do while we watch our mate (really) slowly wreck it all. (aside from the - da da dummmmmm ultimatum? and take our chancees?? buck buck, chicken girl here pecking the ground.

What they do to our insides & heart - i'm thinking in the end it becomes un-fixable. they may be insane - and it sure looks that way- BUT it is their choice too. can that make sense?

i agree with you both- and watch in disbelief and sadness mostly.

geeez - sorry guys- it's the a.m. blues before i just get busy and shove it all out of my brain.

xxo you both sound like you're doing good- yay...

[exquisitetobe]

Nero, don' t be too demanding of yourself.
Everything you described, I have been through. WE GET THROUGH IT IN TIME !!! I wish I could fast forward your situation but I cannot. It is part of our healing.. Trying to make sense of this nightmare. YOU and only you can change the dynamic of YOUR life.

My anger and anxiety opened my eyes to changes. I CHOSE TO STAY away from his life for MY OWN SAKE AND HEALTH. I went into councelling to deal with MY issues to make my life better.I cannot cut him out 100 percent, ( really wish I could ) but I will not put myself in harms way either. STRICT minimum contact.
I know XH loves me more then he d like to admit. but his guilt and shame for the pain HE caused me is eating at his ego. That is where the pitty look in his eyes comes from. He did this, he screwed himself to the core. HE NEEDS HELP and won' t do a darn thing to make his life better. THAT IS HIS CHOICE.
I agree with you when you say the ball is in YOUR court. I always knew the choice was mine to wait for him or not. To be friend with him or not.( I don' t believe, in my situation, that friendship was possible ). He told me many times that we needed to be friends. My answer was: " Do you treat me like a friend ? "
He answered : " NO "... Confusion or one way control?? He refused to give me what he demanded of me... That doesn' t work for me. I wasn' t gonna give him 100 percent for a 5 percent return... recipe for a unhealthy relationship. He knows he could trust me, rely on me, depand on me but he destroyed those things in me. I conducted myself with self-respect.I did the work needed to find my self-esteem and confidence back. I did not self-medicate with booze or OM. It makes XH feel even worst because he sees what he had.. He had a GOOD woman and wonderful kids. He gave up and now settles for whatever or whoever wants him. He will never be happy again ( his words ) and he doesn' t want to hurt me or make me angry . He has NO CONTROL on his emotions and he is full of REMORSE.. Those are HIS WORDS SPOKEN a couple of weeks ago to D14.

You need to take as much time as you need and be ok with the fact that it could take a week, a month, a year, 5 years.. IT doesn' t matter but YOU WILL GET THROUGH IT !!

If you read my story, you will see that I TO have made the connection of having problem dealing with XH but not with anyone else.. That is NOT CHEESY at all.. It is actually A HUGE STEP in moving forward. You see where the problem his and now, you can decide how to handle it. You also realise that YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON, you will set your boundaries and will decide what you can and cannot accept in that particular situation. YOUR attention will turn on yourself and make you stronger, better with or without him.

Give yourself time.. I can tell you that everything you feel is totally up to par and you are doing amazing !!

[AJM]

I got a good look at OW and OMG ????? She is not someone I would associate with.. I can' t believe XH is attracted to her...
I also got to see XH when they turned around in the street.. He looks like crap.. I feel sorry for him. It hurt to see him like this..
D14 said: " mom, dad smelled really bad and it is stuck in my nose."
Me: What do you mean? like cologne??
D14: no, he stinks.
Me: He looked like crap
D14: They both look like druggies..

But one thing I had to think about was how I would handle this. I tried to change myself for him, I tried to stand by him even " monster ". I tried to be reliable for him. I was destroying myself , my values and my principals. I was going against myself, becoming someone I didn' t respect. I saw myself as patathic and weak. How could I accept the unacceptable. How could I stand by someone who lies, takes advantage of others, disrespect everyone, steal, betray and much much more. It wasn' t right.. HE made those choices all by himself, not me. I was becoming like him. abusing him verbally, disrespecting him, wanting him back then push him away because of his betrail.

I'm very glad you're able to see that and that you didn't like that about you. It would be worse if you stayed that way, no?

ALL this in search of HAPPINESS ????? And, in the process made everything worst then what it was when we were a whole family..

Be careful here. Your idea and his former idea of happiness may not be the same. I'm not saying he's happy living like that, but it's an exercise in futility to put your values on him. Just be careful with that, no?

Is it a sickness or is it a result? Good questions. I've often wondered myself which came first in my own situation. To be honest, I don't know that it matters. It is what it is regardless of the reason why. But like you, my ex looks horrible. Her H is a train-wreck that gets really upset if he starts to lose control. I can tell because he lashes out at me

I'm sure it's hard to get off the "woe is me - it's everyone else's fault" train. Heck, it was hard getting off the crazy train for me, and I'm not the one that blames her. I realized a long time ago that the kids and I have it bad, but it's far far worse for my ex. My only hope in that regard is that she doesn't finish her life that way. I'll never know, but it's my hope for her.

From what I saw, it started with pressure and continued with her looking for a reason she felt the way she did. ILYBINILWY speech to blaming me and everything in between. Did it start with her being depressed and then making the decision to have somebody else fill that void? Cheating, drinking, etc? Or something else.

For my money, it started with her and became the rest. Right down to smelling different etc. A complete change.

But although I often said that if she wanted to go she'd have to club me like a baby seal, I don't regret my actions. To all those people that tried to tell me to "move on" ? I thank them for caring. I appreciate that. But I'll do what I will do on my own time and nobody will make me do differently. It's my life.

I didn't ask for what happened. But I'm not sorry for my actions. I have no regrets and I left nothing on the table, trying to save our relationship, family and marriage. Nothing. For that, I am grateful because it helps me heal. It helps me see that it wasn't about me. No matter the accusations (and there have been many over the past few years), it's far easier to see and to live with myself. It's the base of who I am. I tried. I didn't walk away. I didn't wait too long. I didn't leave too early. But when it was time to leave, I chose to do exactly that. Even though she was already "gone" and remarried, she wasn't done. I was. And I chose that path and I'm happy I did.

I don't have to look back and wonder what if? That's invaluable to me.

I'm glad to see that you got a good look at him and his OW now. I think that's something that helps many of us put to rest the idea that they traded up. They rarely, if ever, do in these situations. It's not really possible, although I wish it was for the sake of my kids.

In the end, they go their way in search of "happiness" whatever that means to them. I don't think they know. I think they know they are missing it, but not what it means or how to get it. So they listen to friends, family, the media or anyone that seems confident in their life. That rarely ends well.

Peace,
AJ

[exquisitetobe]

Because I made so much progress and I have seen progress in XH as well, I guess I was expecting is choices of OW to be more selective? I thought the stronger he would get, the better choices he would make. You are right when you say to be careful with my words because he might be in a better place in his eyes? Who knows??

In the end, I AM going my way and sharing my smile with the world. lol

[nero]

hi and thanks -

i just like it when you say i'll getr thru it- you got thru it- we can do it. simple as that- just a vote of confidence from someone that knows.

the friend thing- what a laugh. i said same thing almost when he said he was my friend. I told him he didn't know the meaning of the word- i'd never treat a friend like that and i'd never have a friend that treated me like that.

they cannot see maybe (from waaaay yp there on mt olympus) how they treat us with total disregard and disdain. oh well- his loss i think.

I do wonder about the "price" we pay to db. if it is or will be worth it. if, like aj i can at least look at self and KNOW i gave it every single option and chance. that if it all blows to heck- it wasn't because i gave up too readily.

(big item with me- since my mom was always there to point out every single thing in the universe was "you5r own fault)" - what? flat feet - your own fault. what? red hair - your own fault- no kidding.

sometimes things just are or just happen. i'm not so sure most things are our own darn fault.

oh well- hope your day is okay and thanks again for the pep talk. sometimes i do wonder.

xxoo

[AJM]

sometimes things just are or just happen. i'm not so sure most things are our own darn fault.

Nero, I am sorry your mother told you those things. That's a horrible way to see the world in my opinion. In the end, they are her opinion of the world at large, and very human.

I agree with you, in the end, what is, is. Not much sense in thinking they are not. That clears the way for the question, "what to do about it?"

I was happily married for almost 20 years. I was married for 20, but that's different I'm a very optimistic person. Almost head in the clouds sometimes. I'm also somebody with a strong sense of right and wrong. You can imagine that it took some time to see things clearly. I do realize I was treated badly, accused of things I've never done (pay the price for somebody else's sin was something I said often for a while) and I'm quite careful about knowing me and the motivations of those around me that I let in close.

It took some time to see things differently. I knew I would, but I resisted. My recent thinking? I wonder what if? What if she hadn't left? What would my life be like? Know what I figured out?

My life would suck at this point, because I would have been with somebody who didn't want to be there, was miserable, and angry and... well the list goes on. And since I can't change it (don't want to at this point), it really comes down to me and how I see things that happen. To me, for me, around me.

It is what it is. It isn't what I "wanted" but it is ok that it happened. It's not without consequence, but I'm not unhappy in general. I'm not happy with how my kids will have to deal with things (and do have to). I'm not happy with the harassment. I'm not unhappy that she's gone or that I don't have to really deal with her. In fact, I've spent years trying to not deal with her or her husband. Murky when you have kids right?

Now my kids are pretty much grown - one in college and one about to head there. It's not that I won't talk to my ex, but unless really needed, I choose not to. It's simply unproductive. I no longer get twisted in knots about it. I do know she is trying to make herself feel better at my expense. I know that her H does the same. I'm kind of the dumping ground of bad emotions for them.

If I let them. I don't but they try often.

What's the difference? I can look back and know I stuck to my values. I know I can look back and see I did what I could for my family. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt I tried and that I held up my end of the commitment to all three of them. It gives me great relief to know that.

It is important that I left nothing on the table. It is important that I went as far to the self-deprecating, feel sorry for myself side of things. It was necessary at the time. When it was no longer necessary, I stopped.

For me, that was a lot of the process.

Is there more? Sometimes I find things I thought I dealt with that rear their head. But I find that I can more quickly deal with them and without the emotion of "how could you??" ringing in my head.

I didn't waste my time, but it is time I can't get back that I would have rather spent on other endeavors. I recognize that. I just don't regret it.

That's why I say it takes as long as it takes. The result is the same. The timetable takes a while to play out is all.

The question becomes, how long?

I like simplicity


AJ

[willbwell]

thank you all ( exquisite,nero,bea,ajm) for opening yourselves to sharing. so much to learn...