What has been most helpful on this forum (and similar sources) has been just reading without posting. It has given me a better perspective on my situation.
It has taken me quite a while to really fully understand that many people have low desire, both mentally and physically. I've never experienced anything but high desire my whole life, with lots of fantasies and physical desire. I thought that the biggest problem anybody could have was trying to contain one's desire, not to get aroused when you didn't want to. It wasn't until I heard about Viagra, which was also around the time my wife lost interest, that I realized that there are many people who don't feel automatic desire, and don't fantasize, or can't get aroused. I now realize, for example, that's what happened to my wife is not that unusual. Well, that helps. It's better than thinking there's something seriously wrong with her or that it's because she's trying to frustrate me.
What am I going to do, etc.? If I knew, I'd be doing it and not posting here.
So
I think we all agreed, even 25yearsmlc that even with a low or no desire a wife who loves you will provide intimacy and some sex.
Are you saying all of your needs are met well except for the sex?
I'm still not getting how I wife or husband for that matter will not please a spouse just because their desire is low.
I think at some point you have to realize you've had the same complaint since I've been to DB-land. 3 or 4 years now. The question you have to ask yourself, is would you want your son to endure such torture?
Also do you want to look back upon yourself 15 years from now and have the same signature line as "The Captain" ( Last sex 05/1998 ). I think we can safely assume he's not getting anymore from that location, and sometimes thats just how it is.
Is that what you really want to do with your life? Do you think someone who cares about you would even WANT you to be in such a position?
Even going from none to once or twice a week would be a life changing improvement for you. But I don't think many of us are seeing that as likely.
Once again I'm not trying to kick anyone while they where down, when I was in the bad relationship, it was just hard for me to accept that the person who I feel for was no longer there, and that having me in a painful position with none of my needs met, mistreatment, etc was no accident.
what if your wife craved intimacy, emotionally speaking, OR just wanted to please you and feel close and not selfishly withhold from you,
but for whatever reason, she did not consistently achieve satisfaction or did not feel the need to (or maybe could not for some medical reason)
BUT was still lovingly willing to oblige on a "several times a week" basis?
To me, that's a more realistic goal than her entire libido suddenly and for no reason related to you, skyrocketing and matching yours...
even if it's not "realistic" it's less improbable than your scenario.
I'm trying to come up with a goal for you that is at least theoretically obtainable. That's her showing her love for you by enjoying the physical closeness even if it's not a big sexual turn on for her. There are other reasons for sex.
IF I understood your past comments, You did say she never achieved an "O" before, but you were fine enough with that b/c there was some frequency.
So you never required her to have an O, for you to feel relatively fine...correct?
It's only that the actual contact and intimacy is totally gone now, that makes it so untenable. Is that accurate? (There's no judgement attached to these questions SSM so try to be honest and not censor your answers)
IF so, and I stress those two words: "IF SO", then wouldn't it make more sense for you to stop wishing for the extremely unlikely to happen
ie your wife becoming someone she never was before, and sounds far from ever becoming
and start asking her to at least resume what she was once willing to do, but with an attitude of love, (not begrudgingly seeing it as a chore)??
While part of me thinks you are saying "No, I don't want her to just have sex with me b/c she loves me and wants to feel close,
but b/c she WANTS SEX for sex's sake and wants ME to satisfy her desire" ?
I'm not sure that's attainable.
And I'm also telling you that many women, and probably some men, make love even when they are not "in the mood for sex itself" and that does not have to make you recoil. It's not all pity sex.
(Though I understand in your sitch you have felt that at times and I get that it would feel pretty darn lousy)
When I was grieving my father's death, I was too sad to really get into ML for desire's sake, but I craved the intimacy and closeness of ML, as it comforted me to have my h intimate.
I surely DID NOT see sex as a chore, although I didn't expect it to be sexually satisfying either. That was fine with me at that time.
I saw it as a way of feeling comforted and that is not a bad thing. When h's mother died, I saw it as a way of comforting him...
Do you know what I mean, at all? Does any of this resonate with you?
For you and how you see your w, Does sex always have to come from and only from, the desire for an "O" -and from you?
and no matter your answers, I suppose, it'll go back to what you're willing to settle for.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Sure, what you say makes a lot of sense. I would certainly be happy if my wife would want to do anything, even in small stages. I would never expect her to jump immediately to the energy level I'd like to see.
But if you ask what I'd settle for, or what I'd wish for in the long-term, I'd be lying if I didn't admit I'm wishing for daily activity as an average. You say it would make sense if I stop wishing for what I'd like. If she were willing to engage only once a week, how do I stop wishing for it daily? What do I do, just command myself to stop wishing? That's easier said than done for an HD person. Heck, if that were even possible, I'd just wish myself down to zero and I'd be happy with my current situation. Not possible.
It seems you're suggesting that my problem is the extremeness of my desire, and that if only I'd be happy with something like once a week, and I was OK with no "O" on her part, then she'd go for it. If that's what you think you're misunderstanding my situation and confusing it with what I regard as "garden variety sexlessness", where sex would be back to normal if only the husband became more "reasonable" in his expectations. The problem is getting from absolute zero, even with the smallest steps.
No, I never required her to have an "O". Rarely even brought up the topic, and she never allowed to me to touch her in a way that would allow to try to have one. Contact and intimacy in terms of hugging and friendliness is there, but it's a very clear boundary, exactly as if she were my sister.
As for resume what she was willing to do, the only thing in over 10 years is giving me an HJ. And maybe just once a week. With her clothes fully on -- she's not into it being a more nude or sexual thing on her part. Do you really think it's reasonable to continue with that as the only form of sex for years? No sexual participation in any physical sense on her part, except for stimulating me? Even if it's with an attitude of love on her part? It's not like she has any health problems that would make anything else difficult for her. It's more like, OK, you can get off, but I don't need to. So I guess I should be happy with that? I don't get to touch her in a sexual way? For an HD person who would like a lot more, this is difficult to sustain. So we had this and we discontinued because it was so limited and frustrating for both of us -- for her because she thought even once a week was a chore. And me because I thought it was ridiculously minimal.
What you discuss as making love when they're not necessarily in the mood suggests a far, far greater level of physical sexual intimacy and variety of touching.
So, sure, what I'm willing to settle for might be a problem, but it's not the first one. Getting any movement at all seems to be impossible too.
Like I've said before, she doesn't even see the point of sex, which isn't a surprising perspective for someone who has felt no desire for years. Like if I could be happy with just an HJ, why can't I just take care of it myself? Yes, that what's she's told me. And she bought my a Playboy magazine a few times as a well-meant gift. I suppose so I could take care of myself alone in the bathroom. She'd be fine if I could be happy with that.
My larger problem is that after years with such a minimal or nonexistent sexual life, I'm now MORE curious than most people what it would be like to have a really vibrant sexual partner. I can't just make that wish go away.
Sure, what you say makes a lot of sense. I would certainly be happy if my wife would want to do anything, even in small stages. I would never expect her to jump immediately to the energy level I'd like to see.
But if you ask what I'd settle for, or what I'd wish for in the long-term, I'd be lying if I didn't admit I'm wishing for daily activity as an average. You say it would make sense if I stop wishing for what I'd like. If she were willing to engage only once a week, how do I stop wishing for it daily? What do I do, just command myself to stop wishing? That's easier said than done for an HD person. Heck, if that were even possible, I'd just wish myself down to zero and I'd be happy with my current situation. Not possible.
It seems you're suggesting that my problem is the extremeness of my desire, and that if only I'd be happy with something like once a week, and I was OK with no "O" on her part, then she'd go for it. If that's what you think you're misunderstanding my situation and confusing it with what I regard as "garden variety sexlessness", where sex would be back to normal if only the husband became more "reasonable" in his expectations. The problem is getting from absolute zero, even with the smallest steps.
No, I never required her to have an "O". Rarely even brought up the topic, and she never allowed to me to touch her in a way that would allow to try to have one. Contact and intimacy in terms of hugging and friendliness is there, but it's a very clear boundary, exactly as if she were my sister.
As for resume what she was willing to do, the only thing in over 10 years is giving me an HJ. And maybe just once a week. With her clothes fully on -- she's not into it being a more nude or sexual thing on her part. Do you really think it's reasonable to continue with that as the only form of sex for years? No sexual participation in any physical sense on her part, except for stimulating me? Even if it's with an attitude of love on her part? It's not like she has any health problems that would make anything else difficult for her. It's more like, OK, you can get off, but I don't need to. So I guess I should be happy with that? I don't get to touch her in a sexual way? For an HD person who would like a lot more, this is difficult to sustain. So we had this and we discontinued because it was so limited and frustrating for both of us -- for her because she thought even once a week was a chore. And me because I thought it was ridiculously minimal.
What you discuss as making love when they're not necessarily in the mood suggests a far, far greater level of physical sexual intimacy and variety of touching.
So, sure, what I'm willing to settle for might be a problem, but it's not the first one. Getting any movement at all seems to be impossible too.
Like I've said before, she doesn't even see the point of sex, which isn't a surprising perspective for someone who has felt no desire for years. Like if I could be happy with just an HJ, why can't I just take care of it myself? Yes, that what's she's told me. And she bought my a Playboy magazine a few times as a well-meant gift. I suppose so I could take care of myself alone in the bathroom. She'd be fine if I could be happy with that.
My larger problem is that after years with such a minimal or nonexistent sexual life, I'm now MORE curious than most people what it would be like to have a really vibrant sexual partner. I can't just make that wish go away.
And you shouldn't kill that part of you. Any reasonable loving person would not have their partner wait 1 year never the less one month, and you are talking a multitude of years.
What am I willing to settle for? Somebody who has a sexual energy level where they would want to have sex about once a day on average. . . . I just don't see any way my wife would EVER be interested in this kind of thing. Haven't given up yet though.
Like I've said before, she doesn't even see the point of sex, which isn't a surprising perspective for someone who has felt no desire for years.
It surprises me. Is she so incapable of empathizing with others that she can't see what the point of sex would be for others (such as you)?
ssmguy, that is a cold and insensitive comment she has made towards you. You act as if your sex drive is still way up there, and my hats off to you. Someone who shuts down your sex and issues these type of remarks and does not present physical affirmation will shut down most peoples sex drives. It's a mental feedback loop.
It surprises me. Is she so incapable of empathizing with others that she can't see what the point of sex would be for others (such as you)?
If she were to read the tips for HD spouses at the beginning of this thread, she'd surely highlight this portion of #6 and call it a day:
6. Masturbate Since your sex drives are so disparate, it's unreasonable for you to expect your spouse to take care of each and every desire. You need to take responsibility for satisfying your own needs from time to time. ...
She'd say that if it works some of the time, it should be just as good all of the time. I think she sees it as just a kind of physical reflex. Perhaps since she's never had an "O" of her own, she doesn't understand the psychological connection. It's not like I haven't tried explaining it. What's hard to explain about it is if I've been satisfied one day, and then I want the same thing again the next day, her reaction is, "What? Again? You were just satisfied yesterday and now you need it again?" I mean, I really can see how it seems so ridiculous to someone who doesn't have that experience herself.
Hanging in there for nothing? Yeah, if you mean just the sex, you surely speak the grim truth! But there are many other things in my marriage that are not nothing. Otherwise, I'd be checking out right away and not posting here!
