Hanging in there for nothing? Yeah, if you mean just the sex, you surely speak the grim truth! But there are many other things in my marriage that are not nothing. Otherwise, I'd be checking out right away and not posting here!
I don't think sex and emotional intimacy can be compartmentalized against the rest of the relationship. There has to be other points of pain.
Sure, what you say makes a lot of sense. I would certainly be happy if my wife would want to do anything, even in small stages. I would never expect her to jump immediately to the energy level I'd like to see.
But if you ask what I'd settle for, or what I'd wish for in the long-term, I'd be lying if I didn't admit I'm wishing for daily activity as an average. You say it would make sense if I stop wishing for what I'd like. No I didn't exactly say that. I said wouldn't it make more sense to wish for something more likely, than something that has never existed with her?
You're sort of saying you wish your wife looked like Gwyneth Paltrow, though your wife is short and brunette, but you WANT to wish for that b/c it's what you'd prefer.
I asked if you ONCE had a decent sex life. Not referring to the "HJ"s but to what you had when you were first married. IF THAT was enough, then maybe you could aim for it since it actually existed.
IF THAT IS NOT ENOUGH, though it was then....then you have a serious problem you keep deflecting from... which is that you are very very dissatisfied in your marriage, when it comes to sex-
But you won't DO anything to change it b/c you say you already have OR it won't work...
If she were willing to engage only once a week, how do I stop wishing for it daily? What do I do, just command myself to stop wishing?
You compromise. IMO, That's what every happily married couple does.
That's easier said than done for an HD person. Heck, if that were even possible, I'd just wish myself down to zero and I'd be happy with my current situation. Not possible. It seems you're suggesting that my problem is the extremeness of my desire, and that if only I'd be happy with something like once a week, and I was OK with no "O" on her part, then she'd go for it. I have never said that^^ but I think you like to believe it. I don't care about how often you want to have sex.
I DO think truly making love takes a lot more energy and attention than self service, so maybe if you were actually making love, you might find it harder to manage than you imagine, but I don't particularly care about the frequency you claim. What matters is how your wife's utter lack of sex desire makes you feel.
If that's what you think you're misunderstanding my situation and confusing it with what I regard as "garden variety sexlessness", where sex would be back to normal if only the husband became more "reasonable" in his expectations. The problem is getting from absolute zero, even with the smallest steps.
No, I never required her to have an "O". Rarely even brought up the topic, and she never allowed to me to touch her in a way that would allow to try to have one. Contact and intimacy in terms of hugging and friendliness is there, but it's a very clear boundary, exactly as if she were my sister. What does the marriage counselor you MUST have seen, say about all this? What does your wife SAY about your needs, other than you want it too much? She's not willing to compromise at all?
Doesn't that seem selfish and unloving to you?
As for resume what she was willing to do, the only thing in over 10 years is giving me an HJ. And maybe just once a week. With her clothes fully on --
No I was referring to when you had intercourse. You have children so I know it has to have happened at some point...why won't she at least do that much?
Also, IMO, it's just plain ODD to have your clothes on and do that^^^, instead of cuddling and having real intimacy...wth?
she's not into it being a more nude or sexual thing on her part. Do you really think it's reasonable to continue with that as the only form of sex for years? No sexual participation in any physical sense on her part, except for stimulating me? DO I THINK THAT IS REASONABLE?? Why do you ask ME that?
I'm the one asking YOU, what the hell you are doing in a sexless marriage and why you come here. No, I do NOT think your situation is reasonable at all...
but you seem to be unable to get out of your situation.
Enough said.
Even if it's with an attitude of love on her part? It's not like she has any health problems that would make anything else difficult for her. It's more like, OK, you can get off, but I don't need to. So I guess I should be happy with that? I don't get to touch her in a sexual way? For an HD person who would like a lot more, this is difficult to sustain. So we had this and we discontinued because it was so limited and frustrating for both of us -- for her because she thought even once a week was a chore. And me because I thought it was ridiculously minimal. SSM this is NOT about a "HD sex partner and a low sex drive" partner. It's a lot more serious than that. And a lot lonelier.
It's about a wife who isn't at all interested in her h physically NOR is she loving enough to pretend to be, or to want physical intimacy with him even though she knows it is important TO HIM...that's a huge problem.
What you discuss as making love when they're not necessarily in the mood suggests a far, far greater level of physical sexual intimacy and variety of touching.
So, sure, what I'm willing to settle for might be a problem, but it's not the first one. Getting any movement at all seems to be impossible too.
Like I've said before, she doesn't even see the point of sex, which isn't a surprising perspective for someone who has felt no desire for years. Like if I could be happy with just an HJ, why can't I just take care of it myself? Yes, that what's she's told me. And she bought my a Playboy magazine a few times as a well-meant gift. I suppose so I could take care of myself alone in the bathroom. She'd be fine if I could be happy with that.
My larger problem is that after years with such a minimal or nonexistent sexual life, I'm now MORE curious than most people what it would be like to have a really vibrant sexual partner. I can't just make that wish go away.
SSM, I don't get your emphasis on how you "want a REALLY VIBRANT sex partner" talk...
In reality, it seems to me you just want a willing lover.
That's not too much to ask for or expect, from a marriage.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I can't change what I wish for. Now that my eyes have been opened more about how things could be, my expectations have been raised. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't be happy with smaller improvements.
So was our sex life once decent? Good question. I would say it was somewhat lacking because she was never fully participating, which I didn't really understand at the time because of my inexperience. But now that we both know more, there is no reason why she too couldn't go farther than before. Only dead people have no room for improvement.
With regard to frequency, yes I've been told before that with real sex, that I wouldn't want it as often if it were real sex, etc. You're sounding like my wife when she used to say I shouldn't need it that much, and insisted that once a week should be enough. I've had intercourse, and like I said, only a few times was I able to convince her to have sex twice in one session or in one day. I did not find it a problem with energy or attention. In fact, I wouldn't mind a partner who would like it 5 or more times on a Saturday, if that puts my "compromise" for once a day in perspective. But unlike what's described as "addiction", I don't let my desires cut into work and family responsibilties and other pursuits. At least I'm in control of myself! But I don't buy that somebody can't find the time to have sex once a day. I don't know anybody who doesn't find the time to eat and go to the restroom every day.
I don't expect YOU to care about my frequency, but it is very much an issue for me in the sense that I'm kind of climbing the walls at about 48 hours (after skipping a day). Then I can pretty much go into an immediate fantasy or warm thoughts of sex at the mere sight of a woman. That's very much UNLIKE the situation as I understand it with many more normal or LD people, who could go a week or more and not really miss it, yet be fully responsive when a more HD partner takes the initiative. Sure, I could take the role of being passive in the hopes that my partner would initiate, but after 48 hours, I would quietly be thinking "jeez, come on, can't you figure it out already!"
But you're not the first on this forum to downplay or minimize what I might mean when I say I'm HD. Like another person on this forum who wrote that at my age I will soon need Viagra and might lose interest in sex. Well, who knows, but that would sure be a big change from what I'm currently experiencing.
What did our marriage counselor say? My wife quit therapy when it came to these issues. Yes, that part of it seems selfish and unloving, but these issues also genuinely stressed her out. So you have to be careful to not automatically attribute behavior to the most negative possible causes such as selfishness, when it also involves shame, guilt, and other issues on the part of the other person.
What the heck am I doing in a sexless marrage and why do I come here? I thought this was the sexless marriage section of an anti-divorce forum. What's a more appropriate place?
I seem unable to get out of my situation? I'm not dead yet, so don't count the chickens. I'm in the process of deciding my next move after trying many things over the years. Unlike people who bail out immediately, I think I've done the right thing by trying many things first and maintaining a good marriage in my other ways in the meantime. But I totally agree with you, it's a huge problem.
And, sure, when I say I want a really vibrant sexual partner, you have to understand that I don't really know what I'm talking about because I've never had anybody like that. It's just what I picture in my mind. You say a willing lover. Sure. If she were willing to listen and entertain even half of what I'd like to do, that would be a totally new adventure for me. And I would hope such a person had things she wanted to do sexually too that I wasn't anticipating. That would be a new experience for sure. Oooh, now there are some new fantasies! Time to get on with some other things today before these thoughts take over my mind and body.... ;-)
I don't if this makes much sense to LD people, but the way I think of it is, if sex is really fun, which I think it is, why would you NOT want to have it again the next day? Of course, this reasoning just annoyed the crap out of my wife. Total disconnect on our parts.
I don't if this makes much sense to LD people, but the way I think of it is, if sex is really fun, which I think it is, why would you NOT want to have it again the next day? Of course, this reasoning just annoyed the crap out of my wife. Total disconnect on our parts.
How does your drive stay up with the constant rejection, and the lack of use?
A new way I look at things, love languages all that crap. Even basic human behavior. People are going to do what they want to really do. Right now obviously your wife does not think your needs are important. If your sex drive shut completely down and ED took over, she'd probably figure it's no big deal because it's not needed...
However, what I'm saying is we "share" things with those who we care about. I'm just having a hard time understanding, why your wife is UNWILLING to share sexual pleasure with you, even if its not HER thing.
It just seems really cold to think you should just go masturbate and the problem goes away.
I don't if this makes much sense to LD people, but the way I think of it is, if sex is really fun, which I think it is, why would you NOT want to have it again the next day? Of course, this reasoning just annoyed the crap out of my wife. Total disconnect on our parts.
I think swimming is really fun -- stimulating, not too tiring -- but I don't like to do it every day. Some people do, but not me; once I've had my fill, going swimming again just feels like work, if not torture.
I don't if this makes much sense to LD people, but the way I think of it is, if sex is really fun, which I think it is, why would you NOT want to have it again the next day? Of course, this reasoning just annoyed the crap out of my wife. Total disconnect on our parts.
I think swimming is really fun -- stimulating, not too tiring -- but I don't like to do it every day. Some people do, but not me; once I've had my fill, going swimming again just feels like work, if not torture.
I think ssmguy needs to go "swimming" everyday for a few years. This should make up for his loyalty and committment to his soon to be former marriage.
What if on the following day the sight of a good-looking swimming pool made your heart skip beats with excitement and caused you to fantasize about just how delicious it would be to jump in? See, I think that's where we differ. It's not logical -- our "reasoning" here is driven by our hormones, not our intellect.
Your explanation sounds more like my wife in the best of times years ago. Sure, it was fine one day, but the next day -- "Well, gee, we just did it yesterday!" That answer felt like total rejection to me at the time. Now I'm used to it.
I would agree with your "reasoning" to periods within a day. If we had a good session in the morning, then I could often feel that it was good for the whole day. But the next day, and certainly by the second day, everything is a "reset" for me.
