25yearsmlc message to peeps

[MadeToSucceed]

Loving reading through this thread 25.

I won't lie...you're definitely one of the people I've missed most since posting daily on my sitch. I need to get back on here a little more often. You have been such an inspiration to me on here and even though things didn't go how I wanted them to, you've helped me to look inside of me and truly grow.

Who knows what the future holds...

[25yearsmlc]

Thanks MTS

I wondered where you were and how things were going. You know of course you are still early in your journey as is your w...

or ex wife...(sorry but sometimes people get helped by that reminder, others get hurt)

you have the advantage of so much history together but it's possible you have grown in such different directions that you no longer want the same things. That can happen.

Too soon to tell.

how are your GAL?

My story /thread is not over but I will finish this before I have to do another thread, so bear with me-I do want to get it down on "paper" though...

and finally, who are you rooting for in the Superbowl?

[keep_going]

25

Thanks for creating this thread and all your advice. I have read and re-read everything you have posted for me and am trying to follow your words of wisdom. I have not posted in a while in my own thread but will do so soon.

I have been reading A LOT on the boards though. Old and new. And this thread is one of those things.

I wanted to ask you to expand on something you said earlier on your thread here, since it applies to my sitch.

Even though I am doing great on my GAL and personal growth and even making some significant progress on my detachment, I still think that I am missing something, since I just don't see much progress, and I think it relates to your comment:

**IF your spouse left you b/c you neglected or abused them, then your GAL has to have a different flavor, obviously.**

Any further insight or explanations on this would be great. I am sure others would benefit as well.

thanks!

[RoRoinMD]

25 - This is one of my H's complaints as well. Any insight into how I can GAL effectively would be great!

[25yearsmlc]

Sure Keep

(I wondered how you were doing..check out purgatory's thread sometime if you can)...

SOME WAS's leave relatively decent marriages b/c they are bored or unhappy with THEIR own lives....or they want space to breathe and are having MLCs or are tired of the fighting and want OUT...going dark MIGHT be a wise move at some point, esp if other approaches fail.


IF they have an OP and left a m that seemed relatively peaceful, then going dark may be the best thing so that good memories can resurface and the WAS can snap out of the fact they're just bored or unhappy with THEIR Lives, not their m's

Other WASs leave b/c they were neglected, compromised, ignored and mistreated for a long time.

Their love tanks have been running on fumes for so long...they crave intimacy and approval from someone...they wished it was their spouse - but at some point, they gave up on that, and left...hoping to find it elsewhere, or to just not get anymore negative feedback from their mates...

for THOSE WASs, I don't see going dark as helpful.


Depends on their love languages, which love tank wasn't full, (ie was it no quality time together? Or words of affirmation? Both??? Gifts??) Not always simple or easy to know,

or are they sick & Tired of the spouse and fighting all the time--
...but a lot of LBSers who are not very brave, cling to the idea that the m was "fine...a few problems but no biggies" to avoid brave introspection or owning their own role in the problems...and they LOVE going dark b/c it's the path of least resistance (after weeks or months of pleading and arguing their cases first)

but if the spouse left b/c they were mistreated by the LBSers...

(and the wise daring LBSer knows their role -and I count you as being among the bravest I've seen...)

then the LBSer has different changes to make and reveal, and different 180s and GAL.

Make sense?

MY main change was in response to my h-how we interacted. Yes I think I can fairly say he did some selfish things. But my reaction rarely, if ever, helped.
As a L, I felt arguing was fair, and desirable. But no matter how many facts I marshalled or how brilliant and cogent my words...I never "won"...

sometimes I got 'reprieves' from h, probably to keep the peace...but of course, I kept doing that approach...for years....(b/c I was "RIGHT!!!!" No, I was Not happy but damn it, I was sooo "right"...see???)

It's not about being right; it's about being happy.

And IF I'd felt that I pushed him into the arms of an OW, or was a drug addict or violent with the kids, etc....sure, my changes would have been different. Sometimes they are easy to determine; other times more complex.

At some point if the WAS feels determined to leave AND resists the efforts of the LBSer who shows change, the LBS has to back off. B/c the more we challenge their choices, the more we force them to defend their choices.


But IN all cases the LBSer must detach. First, we detach for our sanity to stop the obsessing and mind reading;
and second, to make our own progress in whatever direction our changes take us.

You can't swim to the other side if you keep looking back over your shoulder

so detaching allows you to get there...

Does that help?

[anclost]

I can see that going dark in my case isn't a viable option. It is clear my W's love tank has been empty for awhile, but how do you go about trying to fill it up with out pursuing or, if they don't want that from you?

I think I was at the same point with my spouse as you were 25, where I would argue and always try to be right. Instead of listening I would try and fix her issue, I have not argued with my wife for months, every since the D was dropped.

[MadeToSucceed]

Thanks MTS

I wondered where you were and how things were going. You know of course you are still early in your journey as is your w...

or ex wife...(sorry but sometimes people get helped by that reminder, others get hurt)

you have the advantage of so much history together but it's possible you have grown in such different directions that you no longer want the same things. That can happen.

Too soon to tell.

how are your GAL?

My story /thread is not over but I will finish this before I have to do another thread, so bear with me-I do want to get it down on "paper" though...

and finally, who are you rooting for in the Superbowl?

My GAL is going pretty well I think. Going to get involved in a couple groups at church. I'm still going to Bible Study and Church. I stopped going to my counselor because I needed a mental break of sorts but I may pick that back up on an every other week basis sometime soon. I actually got my church to start incorporating the DivorceCare program at our church so I'm proud of that. I have been spending some time with a woman I knew from college. I never once had a conversation with her until things were final. The whole time we were in college we had mutual friends but she and I never once spoke. She's a good, Christian woman and she "understands" my situation and so she isn't rushing me into anything nor do I wish to.

I've traveled some and plan to travel more. Have another wedding coming up next weekend but it'll be one of the tougher ones because it's a bunch of friends from HS that will be there and last lots of them heard from me "I was married." Then there is one of my best friends bachelor parties in Vegas next month and then his wedding that I'm in in March.

Down to my final 3 grad school courses and a 10 day study abroad trip to Madrid and Lisbon in May. Other than that, I'm applying to new jobs like crazy and doing my best to network.

As for the Super Bowl, I'll be rooting for the Giants most likely. Former teammate plays for them. On the flip side though, my best female friend from HS's husband plays for the Pats but she'll get over it. I just want to see a good game!

How about you?

[mncwng]

i just wanted to say i love this post so much. i'll be rereading this every time i need a boost

Mach -I had a brilliant and HILARIOUS post that died when my battery ran out...damn..., now I will have to be brief (relatively speaking) but you can all rest assured YOU'D have been very amused by my keen wit...

MACH, you asked if it's "funny" to read how we were back then...well certainly we had our moments. But at times I cringe when I read old posts. They sometimse hit me as downright pathetic to think back on.

It's very Hard to see that in others when they remind me of me back then.

you compared us today to us back then...how different we are now.

I prefer to think of it as a ratio. I was me back then, but now I'm MORE ME...


One of my GAL activities was stand up comedy, which I had done 2 years earlier but as things deteriorated in the m, strangely I felt less and less funny.

Thankfully I got to a place emotionally, & had a comedian mentor who got me to remember that universal experiences have the greatest audiences, and who had not had their heart broken? Few among us...(and we hate them).


So renewing my avocation to write/do comedy was part of my GAL, and it really helped. SO VERY therapeutic there will be more mentioned later about how THIS SITE saves senses of humor AND some marriages...)

So I was at The Improv (yes in Hollywood, b/c yes I'm darn funny... and no I don't use the name '25' on stage --but it is catchy)

and things were so bad in my sitch that I literally opened my set by publicly [b]dedicating
"my set tonight - to my soon to be ex h after over 2 decades of marriage...Hey folks , did you know in California if you are divorcing, you cannot bad mouth your former spouse in front of your kids? IT's called "Parental Alienation"...

So apparently,

if you want to call your spouse an "effin' #$%^&@#~!!!",

you have to STAY MARRIED!"...ba dah bum!"

...sigh...Guess I can't ever show THAT tape to h or put it on youtube...but it was a sweet crowd....but maybe even more importantly, it was the start of me learning to laugh again, getting back to who I really was/am. What's the word for mojo for women? Our tubes? You know what I mean.

MACH You said:

There were days when I thought I was gonna die, and there were days when I went outside, and screamed at God to give me more, so that I could find my breaking point.

I suppose I never wanted to reach my breaking point b/c I felt I was on the brink of it so often, but I hear you....I wanted an "OFF" button. A "fast forward" or a sleeping pill to make it go away when i woke up. I felt I was in a whirlpool at times, circling the drain...spiraling and not able to swim OUT of it...dragging me down.

******
In the mornings sometimes, I had forgotten that he was gone, and for a moment I'd feel light again, I was "ME" again. I had energy and bolted upright for MY DAY!

Then the memories would surge in, & w/the surge would come the heavy chains of grief and SORROW and FEAR - landing on my every limb and weighing me down and

I'd feel so much heavier and slower...all day, every day, for so many days...

then I'd have a "day off" of the grief, or some hours while I focussed on something-anything-else.

Though the surge of grief would return, the days off began to last longer or I'd have two days "off", in a row...and I recognized this as something that happened months after my father died.

"Ah, this is what healing is like, just as it begins..."

At my worst, OR how I recall it now, I must have been a real drag...those first weeks and months...the repetitive questioning in my head made ME bored of me!

and in my mind the same thoughts were looping around like a lost speeder driving around the freeway never taking an exit ramp...OMG, GET off the loop, take an exit ramp!!! CHANGE SOMETHING...

AND Stop asking the same Unanswerable questions...

"WHY IS H DOING THIS?? WHY, WHY, WHY? HOW CAN HE DO THIS???"

Mach, a part of me wants to zap back in time 6 years, slap my face and tell myself to "Snap out of it! THIS PAIN IS NOT FATAL AND IT'S NOT ETERNAL!"...but the "end" zone was AND always is somehow within US.

Speaking of the question "WHY?"......
SIDENOTE--
I met a young girl in cancer camp one summer, when I was a teen. She had a scarf on her head to cover her chemo hair...she gave me the best "Why me??" story ever....

She said "I used to ask God, 'why ME, God, why am I sick? Why, God, WHY???' and then I told myself, 'You just are! So go have fun while you feel good!"....and she had a great blast that summer of fun and laughs, and it was her last one on earth...

Sometimes the most important question we can ask in a situation, is "WHY?"

but sometimes it's just a useless wasteful thing to ask.SO, LIVE WELL NOW, b/c life is short.

That's WILP# 6 (?)

You also wrote that it never occurred to you that you'd be more enlightened when the "ordeal/adventure" was over than you were before...

Who can ever guess that their darkest hour might lead them to the brightest of days?

You wrote "That only I could define myself through this, and be the person I wanted to be.


THIS IS A GEM^^^^ FOLKS!! Simple in theory, but not easy.

Our happiness always was SOLELY our responsibility. It wasn't fair to lay that on anyone else, EVER. And let's NOT let others dump that on you either.
Thanks Mach.

Aristotle said "happiness is a virtue" for a reason. Yeah - it takes real effort. We do NOT "FIND HAPPINESS" - we CREATE it. Is it worth it? I'd say YES!

And if we were to FIND it, it'd be b/c we searched INSIDE AND OUT and hunted for it..we would not sit and hope that happiness would fall into our laps.
Standing for your marriage does not mean standing still.

It does not work that way...the real journey in life is an inward one. And the DB journey is a scary trip but if you do it as bravely as you can

(with faith that God really does know you-- AND he loves you anyhow!...)


then yeah,

DBers can become more "enlightened", more content, more centered and more loving, loved people.

MACH--okay I'll read some more of my old posts but today I stopped when I was reminded of the funniest people here who helped ME SO MUCH to get through those days...you among them.

Do you recall the group of w's who were LBSers who viewed their MLC h's as guys in a "virtual" parade? (here in DB land)

It was sort of an MLC PARADE and we LBSers sat down to watch...on the "sidewalks" as we imagined them prancing down the streets with their new OWs or OMs and I recall one MLC h's nickname was "PuffDaddy" or Puff for short, & there was Machoman, etc...

we had our imaginary popcorn with margueritas...wore our sunglasses watching DETACHING from the destruction over which we had no control, w/ humor..may as well have a comfy seat and ask the pool boy for a new drink...PARTY!!

I think the "chicas" were Lisette, Baseball Annie, Holly06, me and several others...figgeroni was there too...and the men who were here as LBSers were the "HOT POOL BOYS" who got us our drinks I recall puppy was there, and Was2sad as well.

Thank God for this place and the caring people who made me laugh then.

Those were the best of times; those were the worst of times.

Here's an important topic-my screen name-
I sure did NOT know how long I'd be here, so now the screen name I chose then has little relevance. It was simply that at 25 years, it was blindingly obvious to me that h was having an MLC, or he was on an episode of "Extreme Makeover of an H."

I fear changing the name now, if I keep the same theme...to what? "30YearsBut5YearsAgoHeMLCd" ??

That Just seems a little long...(that's what she said)...ba dah bum!


You wrote this (and I thank you for it)

There is a plethora of information on some really great threads if any of you want to take the time to find these old threads.

Truly amazing works of people that are striving and growing and learning.

That is what I took from 25's old threads. Was that she CHOSE to look inside, to grow and to learn. That she didn't just become the person that she is today. That she chose to ask the hard questions of herself, and was willing to put in the time to do this FOR herself.


Thanks for that. Incidentally I saw my former MC the other day to discuss a family issue with the kids (not the m, thankfully!)

Had not seen him in years. (I think I aged him)...

So we talked about the past and me getting here. And he reminded me that I DID say I wanted to

"do the morally right thing and 'not follow my bliss' b/c at age 90, my 'bliss' will be knowing I did right by my children and marriage." I meant that.

It was flattering (and less crazy than other stuff I said then)

Point is that a lot of WAS can't see that the moral dimensions of their choices now- MAY matter to them later and will be viewed by their children from the child's eyes, not the WASs....

And then some of us, the angry LBSers, get so self righteous and "rightfully angry" (what an odd phrase)

WE don't see how we're going to regret not taking the high road, but we will.

In some ways it's worse for us if we choose that road rage, b/c then the anger we feel consumes us, not them, and it eats us up now and later...

Hence "my" phrase (authored by someone unknown)

"Holding onto anger to hurt someone else - is like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes."

That is why we let go of our anger. Not for the WAS, but for US.

And for our children..and our futures. I've never met a happy person who was angry, have you?


LAST POINT of the evening from me...

MACH-I also think that even though it seems that WASs leave LBSers...I now see that my h was not leaving ME or our kids...he was leaving a life that wasn't going the way he thought it ought to. We seemed to be in the way of some unknown goal or place (in his case it was literally a place). or so he thought.

I can tell you Not to take it personally and I mean it...but you'd say at the time, "how can I not?" There's the rub.

Alas, the Achilles heel...a beautiful kind young woman asked me once, THE question--

"25, if I'm so great, then how can my mate-the one who knows me the best, LEAVE ME? If I'm so wonderful, how can he stop loving me?"

(Indeed? We don't know "how" they can; we only know they apparently can.)

Her fear was what we all fear, i.e., that down deep, truly deep down, we are NOT so wonderful. We fear we are unlovable.

This is a lie. Wherever it came from or is coming into your head now, do not believe it. It is a lie. A falsehood to explain the act of another.

And somehow we have to get it through our heads and hearts (and my adage applies--where the head goes, the heart will follow...eventually)

that it is NOT about a WAS rejecting us, but about them still seeking what they have not found.

In the face of that, all you can do is your best. That translates into the only real choice you have...

to BRAVELY look within and take that inward journey of faith in yourself and in God if you are a believer, become your best self, believe that best self exists-

figure out HOW to become that person "only a fool would leave' and yes that has to be your best self b/c the fact that you don't look like Catherine Zeta Jones is irrelevant since your partner ONCE found you attractive, and unless you once did look like her, get real!

So be real about this. YOUR BEST SELF is lovable and worthy of good treatment...(but yeah, do the job and get there)

So if you are up for it, DO the following:

pick yourself up, dust yourself off and move in forward motion...learn to be happy and show others that you know how. It's attractive as hell but

of course that's NOT the point is it...?? Well??

PS*****


OKAY so clearly this is not a linear piece but I hope you'll bear with me...

thanks for listening and MACH--very stimulating comments as usual.

((( !! )))

[keep_going]

25
Thanks for your answers and advice.

I totally understand how my H got to an "empty tank." I like you, had a lot of anger. I have made a lot of progress on that front thanks to MY efforts and work at anger management - for ALL my relationships.

In my R with H, we both suffered from the "being right" bad arguing dynamics. What you said about it totally resonates for me. I now try to validate and show him RESPECT. How? By not arguing and taking into account his opinions. I show that I am thinking of them and try to say frequently "you are right" or "that makes sense." If I don't agree, I usually drop it or say something like "that's interesting, I'll have to think about it."

A frequent backslide for me is trying to defend myself. I see this as another form of proving myself right. I believe this comes from a lack of true detachment. I care what H thinks, therefore, I try to defend to convince him and again, be right.
So more work to do on that.

My dilemma is really on the 180s - I neglected and abused him with my anger for a loooong time. Going dark would not be very different from what he had received from me. His main LL is physical affection, but how to show affection and regain intimacy? The most he lets me is a hug (on occasion) when he leaves. He is always so careful not to get near me - physically or emotionally for fear that I might misinterpret his intentions and because he doesn't want to betray OW.

So what would the 180s look like in this situation?

[BFloat]

Thanks for starting this thread 25. I have been reading and trying to make sense of everything.

I've been trying to figure out if my WAS is #1 or #2. It's all so confusing. He has honestly not said anything negative towards me which makes is so difficult to figure out what I need to change. I think the finances bothered him.. He says he wants to learn to be independant.. And basically wants to see what's out there.

So I think going dark is the best thing for me? Because obviously the crying and reasoning have clearly not worked.

It hurts especially because of my 2 little ones. But the more I talk about them, the more he seems convinced they'll be ok. Sigh.