I thought I would toss out this question to the DB forum populace.
I know there are strong opinions in opposite sides of the idea whether MLC exists and is "real".
I do point that one of the primary questions about MLC is that it is not on the DSM of mental or psychological diagnosable conditions.
Yet there is a lot of subjective and perhaps objective material on a subject of a medical condition that technically, does not exist.
Is this really just a label for excusing behaviours, is there really something "more" to the MLC label that simply hasn't been recognized by the mental health community, or...?
And how does this relate to and factor in DB efforts?
I sort of see the whole "MLC" thing the way I see the "ADHD" thing. For every kid put on Ritalin, there's probably 5 more who shouldn't have been, that are merely active, healthy kids (usually boys).
Whether or not a "life crisis" exists (and I don't think they conveniently come at "mid-life," whatever that even is), I don't personally believe that the way you deal with the walkaway/wayward spouse's behavior -- or your overall sitch -- should be any different. You should still seek competent legal counsel if your spouse is talking D, you should still put healthy boundaries in place, and you should still not enable any affairs in any way shape or form.
I don't buy the whole distinction between "MLC affairs" and "normal" affairs. There's NOTHING "normal" about infidelity, and I advise people to attack it the same way.
I do think there are different types of IC that are probably called for, based on what factors the wayward spouse feels drove them to their destructive behavior.
That's just me. That view may not be in the majority, and it's damned sure not going to be in the majority on the MLC forum. I just see way too many sad, sad people stuck in limbo for YEARS while their adolescent spouses cheat on them over and over, and largely get a pass because they're on they're "journey."
Kaffe, Interesting subject. I have read almost everything I could get my hands regarding MLC. I would say 99.9% for sure thats what I had. It was not an excuse to behave the way I did. I was always laughing, joking, I liked to have fun. In MLC I completely went inside Depression you couldn't believe, Totally confused just about everyday. Whats funny my XW DB'd me without knowing it. She had her own life and GAL but kept the road home paved. I got through it, and thought happily ever after. LOL Wrong!!
XW goes MLC, and I employed the exact same methods but with different results. I got a life, but kept the road home paved and smooth. She has chosen to believe the feelings brought on by MLC are real. I submit they are not. The question is does she have the tools to get through the MLC intact? At this point the answer is no. She is about 2 1/2 years into it.
I look back at MLC and its like another person just took over. Its like I was watching from above as someone(Alien) just tried to destroy everything and I would do nothing to stop it. I felt paralyzed mentally.
DB'ing is the only way to go. Either way she comes back or doesn't it gives you the opportunity to save yourself.
There are days I still wish she would change back, but (1) wishing does not make something so! and (2) those thoughts are only a small portion of time. Life is great most of the time.
For LBS, I think you still need to feel the loss occassionally because as Amy C said you carry the real memories of your life together. The MLC'er cannot.
There are some great resources if you dig deep on MLC. I would name them but against forum rules i think.
I'm not even sure that my wife wasn't going thru some sort of life crisis 5 years ago. In fact, I was told by many people (some of whom were very familiar with my sitch) that she WAS, in fact. She certainly had a lot of the typical "signs" -- got a tummy-tuck, drove a new BMW, was pursued by (and ended up having an affair with) a 29 year old (when she was 47), etc. She went from living with her parents to living with me when we got married, and you could certainly make a strong case that she was "replaying" that part of her life that she was never allowed to have -- that I did have, when I was off at college and the years just after.
If it's true that she was, however, then all the more "hmmmmmm" that she was able to break out of it so quickly.
Most of the mental health professionals who decide what is included in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders have ties and/or have been funded by large pharma. There's one clue. There isn't a pill for MLC.
I sniffed around a little bit and found that to be included in the DSM the following criteria must be met: - symptoms severe enough to cause impairment or distress - sufficiently different from categories of illness already included - demonstration that the new diagnosis will not generate false positives - absence of political sensitivity
So when it comes to the behaviors attached to MLC, yes the symptoms cause impairment or distress, but is it really different from other potential diagnoses like depression or panic attacks or anything that includes abandonment and irresponsibility? The likelihood of false positives is HUGE, and political sensitivity, I would think, fairly high (interpretation as "an excuse for people to leave their marriage and families" would have many activist groups up in arms, and rightly so).
I think there's a lot of growing up and personality integration that should happen in the late teens and twenties, even into the early thirties. People figure out who they are, go through changes in style and interests and figure out what fits, what they're really into (throughout that time I'd been a hippy, a punk, outdoorsy, etc, and now I'm just me, with various parts integrated). They make bad choices, change jobs and majors, skin their knees, break hearts, suffer heart break, screw up. At the end of the early adulthood learning and growing experience, folks are ready for the responsibilities of marriage and family should they choose it.
BUT sometimes folk get married young and miss that whole growing experience. Or sometimes they're under the thumb of watchful "helicopter" parents and aren't allowed to make mistakes or learn and grow. They're burdened with expectations that come from their immediate or extended families, their social groups, their culture, their community, their religion.
So they walk the path that somebody else has laid out for them and BOOM! One day that whole part of the psyche that hasn't had a chance to develop and integrate pops its head out and there it is. "I deserve to blah blah blah ME ME ME".
That's just how I see things as a person who's been on her own since 19 and was married to someone who seemed to try to "rebel" but couldn't really get out from under mommy's thumb.
So while I do think that MLC is real in the sense that something developmental happens and is incredibly destructive, I don't really think MLC is a legitimate mental illness.
Instead, I think it's a cluster of behaviors that mimic diagnosable mental illnesses. It is the product of never having had a real chance to go out and sow those wild oats, to spread those wings, to explore various sides of one's self and allow them to fully integrate at an age and socially appropriate time in one's life. It's immaturity in so far as these people never had/took a chance to fully mature, to ripen so to speak.
Should they get a pass because they're on "a journey"? Absolutely not.
How does this relate to DB efforts? As with young adults, sometimes you just gotta cut those apron strings and let the kid grow up and fend for him/herself. The sooner the better. Enforce the responsibilities and take absolutely no sh!t.
Of course, others might disagree.....
me 45 H 46 T 5 M 2.5 BD Sept 6 2011 OW Sept 8 2011 Threw him out Sept 8 2011
Take, Midway through my MLC I was ready to leave. My anger and resentment towards my wife and my projection of the situation was insane. I love my kids yet was ready to run because the pain was unbearable(mental). I still to this day can't believe that was what I wanted to do. It went against everything I stand for and what it is to be a stand up man taking resposibility in this world.
It's ironic that my XW ran and yet still professes to be a great mother to our children to anybody who will listen. That list is short these days.
I believe my wife is MLC. She has forgotten her mother,father,grandmother, sisters, and kids. anybody who was close to her. They were just collateral damage.
One wacky thing she said! I aked her why she wanted a divorce a while back. She said You took me to this Pizza place too much. IMy mouth must have dropped open when looking at her because she was quick to point out " well there were other reasons" I get a good chuckle some days even know it is sad for many involved.
One wacky thing she said! I aked her why she wanted a divorce a while back. She said You took me to this Pizza place too much. IMy mouth must have dropped open when looking at her because she was quick to point out " well there were other reasons" I get a good chuckle some days even know it is sad for many involved.
MLC can make you say WOW! REALLY!
And that is EXACTLY what I advise people to say in those (and some other) situations: Just look at your spouse incredulously, shake your head, pause for effect and say "Wow. Just wow." And walk away.
My wife told her parents that she was leaving me because of two primary marital complaints:
1. "He spends too much time on that damned computer!" Now, this isn't some gaming addiction I have, where I go in a home office on a desktop computer and not spend any time with my wife. On most evenings, we would each sit in our family room at home, on opposite couches about 6 feet away from each other, and I'd do things on my laptop while we often watched a TV show together.
2. "He's always at those damned ballfields!" I coached our sons' youth baseball teams, so we would typically have one game and one practice per week. Nevermind that even when I WASN'T coaching, my wife and I would both attend all of our sons' games, and I would usually take him to practice and stay there during.
"That's it?" her parents asked her. "That's why you want this other guy, and want to end your marriage? There must be something else."
"No, that's pretty much it," she told them. "He doesn't pay attention to me."
Starsky, Two things, one a observation of ,yself after MLC and a question for you.
If someone came to me now and sain you said this or you said that in MLC, I would believe them and say I was one F up dude and chuckle myself and apologize. Thats how I know I came the whole way through MLC as well. A real grasp that i was messed up an hurt people.
If you talked to your wife now would she acknowledge the things she said or still feel justified that she made the decisions that she did?
I see my MLC for what it was. It was supposed to teach me something I was supposed to learn. I must have missed it the first couple times and so it decised to really pack a punch.
I am a much better person having come through it. At peace, balanced, content.
(((spew)))