EXPERIMENTING with physical touch with W

[SM34]

Thank you for following me to my new thread. During my first coaching session with Laurie, I was asked to start to experiment with light touch and see how my W responds.

i was told to take note of her reactions, and then in my second session with Laurie we will talk about how to "tweak" this.

So yesterday was my first day with this new approach. I had been with holding affection and maintaining physical space for 2 months now, but engaging W mentally and emotionally. I think now is the time for mentally, AND physically. So here goes...

Last night when I got home, W was cooking her awesome crab cake recipe which is my favorite (and she knows it). So when I came into the kitchen and saw that, I stood right next to her and put an arm around her but shoulder height, and squeeze her towards me just a little, and said "Oh you are making crab cakes, my favorite!". She looked at me and smiled and said "Yes I know, thats why I'm making them". No discomfort noted, although that might have been the closest I have been to her in 2 months.

Later when it was D3 bedtime, we went into her room together to put her in her bed, as we do EVERY night since she was born. Before BD, one of us would hold D3, and then we would kiss her at the same time together, each one of us on one cheek. Its like our family group hug and kiss before D3 bedtime.

For the last two months, it has been a little different. Whoever is holding her kisses her, then the other leans in to kiss the other cheek but without really touching each other.

So this time, I was holding D3 and when wife leaned in to kiss her, I took a little step closer and my arm that was under D3 was pressed up against my W and her large breasts (hmm I miss them!). I made sure to kiss D3 at the same time that W was, and wife even put her arm around both of us to pull D3 closer, mashing my arm between the two of them. No discomfort noted in my W, possibly even enjoyed it.

After dinner, I told W that I saw that Theresa Caputo (the long island medium) would be having a show in our town in a couple weeks. So I said "Hey honey, I want to go to see Theresa Caputo's show, would you like to join me?". She looked at me and lit up and said "YES, I would LOVE too!, that would be AWESOME!". She was very enthusiastic so I told her I would take care of the tickets, and that its on a Saturday night so she would no not to make plans with OM. I haven't spent a Saturday night with W since BD because she is always with OM that night.

This morning, W was dressing D3 for school. It was early and normally W would sleep in and I get D3 ready and get her to school. So I came in and stood next to W (as I would do normally) and leaned in to give D3 a kiss. Then I looked at my W and said "You look tired, would you like me to take over?" and at the same time, I patted her on the back. She said "I'm so exhausted, I didn't sleep very well tonight". Maybe because I'm confusing her now with the physical touch? not reading into it. W's hair was a little out of place, so I ran my fingers through her hair 3 times and said "I'm so sorry you didn't sleep well". She smiled. No discomfort noticed.

So, after the first day of physical touch, and a tiny bit of pursuing (invitation to join me for a nice show on a saturday night), I see absolutely no pull back from W. She seems very receptive and quite comfortable.

She is still changing infront of me. Yesterday, she got completely naked in our bedroom while I was talking to her.

So now I am very confused. Could she really be treating me as just a friend? Or is she making sure I stay interested until she sees whats going on with OM?

Last info then I will turn it over to all of you to offer your help suggestions etc. This morning D3 woke up and then walked across the entire house, passed the guest room where W is sleeping now, and to the master bedroom where I sleep. She jumped into bed with me.

So then W got out of bed and came out when she heared us, even though we had planned from the last night that I was going to take care of D3 and get her to school, and W had picked out what D3 would wear because she would NOT be getting out of bed early.

When I told W "Hey baby good morning. Why are you up so early? I was going to take care of breakfast and all that". Then wife said something that made me wonder if she is starting to see how life would change for all of us, if she moves out and in with OM and leaves D3 with me as she planned.

W said "D3 woke up and went right to see you. She didn't come into the guest room because she expects that I'm not there. I don't like that". I kept a straight face and moved on to another topic.

Now over to you guys! How am I doing? Is this too much? Can any of the ladies answer the "are we just friends" question?

[25yearsmlc]

no SM, of course we can't answer the "just friends?" question yet. Good grief SM! IT's been a day!

I think you're pushing the touching in terms of frequency. She'll probably pull back, Do you have to go from 1 mph to 50 so quickly?

Just strikes me as a lot all at once...and you ARE attaching it to results, and it shows unrealistically high expectations to even ask what we think after a day or a week, or that it will turn things around so fast.

I worry you are not detaching at all.

[Crimson]

Funny, but my XW and I were having a discussion via text regarding love languages and she noted that she is a mixture of words of affirmation and physical touch - both of which I strongly agree with.

Since my BD 17 months ago, the instances where I have touched my now (XW) have been few and far between. I can count on one hand the hugs that we have shared since then. Granted, there are no pure aboslutes in this process - but even though NOW I think she would *maybe* be more open to it - when I was at your stage the notion of physically touching her was a million miles away. She just seemed as though it was the last thing that she wanted and I think in her situation she didn't want anything even remotely close to "closeness" since she had filed for D. I guess I say all of this to say be careful with it - and don't assume that lack of an overtly negative reaction means that negative (if not confused) feelings are there.

Also, for the love of GOD stop looking for the "if/then" relationships and using her immediate reactions as a baromenter. It just does not work that way and you and I both are living examples of the fact that our ability to read our wives basically sux. So try to stop.

Yes, it is good that your wife didn't recoil in total horror at your touch....and that she agreed to do something with you. However, you are just seeing the surface and there is still a lot below it.

In the middle of our D proceedings my XW and I went to see a famous comedian together. We had a great time....she even held my arm as we were leaving. Then, literally FIVE minutes later she went OFF on me the ENTIRE drive back to her condo about our situation....how things were my fault.....it was pretty crappy. So I guess I say that to say take small steps of progress as just that...SMALL SMALL SMALL steps of progress - and not a signal that R is on the horizon. It has been my personal experience that a WAS can dart back and forth between "being cool" with you and "being glad she is leaving" a lot.

Slow down, man.....I know you want a faster fix, I did too. But you will drive yourself nuts looking for it in the "hidden" signals you may or may not be getting. Keep working on you...give the impression that you are going to be great (if not BETTER) and she is going to miss out on it.

Crimson

[Tallula]

I agree with Crimson, seriously, you need to work on some GAL. My H would initiate ML, then an hour later talk about apartments he was looking at. She has no idea what she wants. You are going to make yourself crazy!! While you should be trying to do things different, monitor results, as Michelle says...it takes more than a day. And it can't be all you are focusing on.

What are YOU doing? Have you figured out a hobby?

[Navyguy]

SM - if your W is anything like mine, she'll accept the touching, but feel pressured by it at the same time...and pressure = pursuit.

You've got to detach. I just skimmed your previous thread. Looks like you were talking about an OM only 10 days ago and now you're temperature taking multiple times in a day and analyzing the bejeezus out of it. It's time to hit the brakes here - you're speeding toward a brick wall right now.

In your last thread, Anotherstander posted this: "...a place where you truly do feel that you can continue your life with or without your W. When you get there, nothing your W does or says will impact your PMA. It's then that they start realizing they don't have power over you anymore and they could very well lose you. That might lead to new soul-searching on their part. Just don't try to rush the process, if you try to force it then it'll usually come off to the WAS as pressure and that's not a good thing."

That is detached - and that is what works. It took me 2 years to get there. I still love my W dearly, but if she packed up her stuff and left tomorrow, I know I'd be fine and ready to continue life without her. I will also tell you that if you're putting up with her seeing OM while she's still married to you and living with you, there's no way you're detached...you're clinging to hope. If you were detached, the next time she saw OM there'd be signed D papers waiting for her when she got home.

You've been at this for less than 2 months. Everyone is telling you to GAL - they're right. At this point you need to do it to give yourself time to work on YOU. Unless you've had some kind of divine intervention on your understanding of human emotion, there's no way you've fixed the things about you that made your M go wrong. You're probably just now starting to really look in the mirror - and once you have, making changes will certainly take a lot longer than 10 days (i.e. the radical shift you posted about 10 days ago).

We're about the same age - you'll know you've made the changes you need to make when guys in their 50's and 60's start telling you that they wish they understood what you do when they were 33 or 34.

Sorry for the harsh tone here...but you're playing with fire. Take it from the guy with the burn scars to prove it.

Read my old threads - read Denver's old threads. You'll see what I'm talking about. We both made the same mistakes you're making...over and over and over and over.

[sandi2]

If Laurie knew you as well as we know, she would have given you a limit of how many times to shoot for physical touches in one day. The SM34 we all know, is already thinking of ways he can DOUBLE the touches the next night.

IMO, you pushed it, and were very lucky you didn't strike out. And, you may have struck out! The fact that "no discomfort was noted" by you doesn't mean anything. Perhaps she chose to tolerate it instead of having to remind you of the R as it now stands. Maybe she didn't mind too much, but that doesn't mean she will welcome another night of the same.

The thinking of most WAW's is that they can't allow the H to get the wrong message. And man, can you get the wrong message sometimes! Do not go for any touches tonight. Let last night soak for a while. B/c when she realizes what you're doing, (and she will realize it very quickly), she will probably shoot your intentions down to the ground.

Tonight, you need to refrain.

[SM34]

Thank you everyone. Yes I will dial it back big time until next week. That was enough touching.

I have been doing well with detaching. I don't feel like I follow her mental state as much as I used to.

I thought I was doing what laurie told me to, but perhaps I over did it. I think because laurie said she will probably pull back but don't worry about it too much because we will tweak the approach once we know what she will or will not be receptive to. So maybe subconsciously I was trying to reach that boundary. I will stop that immediately.

As far as my own life, I am pleased to say I am purchasing a business to expand my own! It is a move that W has wanted me to do for a while now. So have I, because I really need to fix my dunces before W thinks about R, or
for any other woman to think about a R with me =)

When I told W, not asked like I would normally, she was taken by surprise that I was ready for that. She praised me and said it is the best decision I have made in business, ever.

Normally we would go out and celebrate like when I purchased my second retail store. But now with the third, i'm not sure what will happen.

Maybe I will tell her i'm going out to celebrate with friends and see what she says. Closing is in two weeks.

This weekend I am taking D3 to the zoo. Not sure about W plans, haven't and won't ask her.

[25yearsmlc]

how is expanding the business going to give you more time with your family?

[SM34]

I am delegating my tasks now so I can be hope by 5.30 which is one of my 180s.

Last summer I wax home by 3pm every day because of slow season. The problem is when you have negative cash flow, it doesn't make for a lot of excitement. I stress about it, and I think rightfully so.

With this new business I should be able to make more money and as long as I continue to delegate I can maintain my 180.

If I start paying off some of our debt, things will start to feel better and also W won't be in a panic.

If you knew the details you would see =). It's a great financial move.

[SM34]

I still feel I am getting mixed opinions advice.

Some are saying it's good to keep your W at home so she can see your changes. It's burns forever setup of course, but it's only been two months.

Others are saying I need to stand up for myself and kick her out and file for D.

But laurie didn't seem to think it was odd that only 2 months in, we still lived together. So I guess I stick with the pros and ignore the noise.

Especially the noise coming from people who got D'd in the end, or are still trying years later.

Never trust a skinny chef, as they say. =)

No touching today. But W did brush up against me several times while picking up D3 or playing with her. I am maintaining my distance for now unless she is initiating.

The state fair is in town next week. It's W favorite thing to do. She has to get a baked potato from there.

So I think I will say 'I am taking D3 to the fair if you would like to join us'. Good idea?