Hi, not sure where to start. H and I have had a very rocky marriage for the last 5-6 years. He would say 4 years, when he found out I was having PA, but I don't think I would have found myself in that position if things were going well. Anyway, we have been on/off again for the last 4 years and anytime something happens he quits the marriage. (This actually started 2-3 years before my A). We started going back to counseling in Jan and he was upfront that he didn't know if he wanted the marriage to work or not and then on Valentines Day he was a jerk and said on the 15th he no longer wanted to be married. This is the longest we have gone without being together or having any type of physical/emotional connection. I finished Divorce Remedy a couple of weeks ago and I started it again yesterday. For 3-4 weeks I did LTR and did not mention a word about us to my H, just being nice but going about my business. I no longer text or call him unless it is necessary (re:kids/schedules/etc). We only had one personal interaction during that time and I blew it by getting mad and yelling at him "this is what is wrong with our marriage". Yes, I regret it but I can't change it. It came after 5 or 6 very emotional days during which I struggled not to cry, or did, (when he wasn't around)and went through every emotion from sadness, anger, fear and hate to understanding his position and realizing it will take time back to anger, sadness and hate. Anyway, my entire life feels like it is a disaster - I need a job but cannot find one that pays any money and he wants a divorce. We cannot go live apart for at least 18 months because not only do I need to find a job, but my son has to have surgery next year which will require us to move out of state for 2 months. We are already trying to save money to pay for that, and our bills here, so we can't save first/last months rent and money to furnish another place at the same time. So, the other day I cried for about 5 hours after accepting a horrible job that I didn't want and that made me feel terrible about myself. I ended up calling my H the next morning after he left for work and asking him to try again while we are living together. He didn't say yes, or no, but we did talk a little and he said he doesn't see why this time will be any different. I didn't push and I didn't bring it up again. My question is...which part of the book do I do?? Do I still do the LTR? (one thing I KNOW from experience is that my H will NEVER be the one to step up and say ok, or change things, even when/if he wants to). Do I do a 180 (and was I do a 180 by not talking about it, or a LTR?!) Do I do little things for him like bring him his tea in the morning, cook things he likes or just work on myself and forget about us for now?
Your advice is appreciated!
M 46 H 44 D 12 S 8 M 9 T 11 BD 2/15/13 "Makes sense to stay together" 5/12/13 Agree we are 'healing' 7/13 Definitely Piecing 9/13
Very interesting sitch, lovethehub. My sitch is quite similar to yours, in timeline, time together / married, and children ages (except mine are both girls).
The difference is, I found out my W was in an A on or about 10/10/10. Where I was different than your H is, that was a very clear boundary for me, and I left at the end of the month and asked for a D. It was about 18 months later before my W finally said she would like to D.
We are here to support you, of course. I want to be very clear about something, though. Even while you indicate, and certainly rightly so, that there were problems before the A, please do not justify or rationalize it. It was your choice to have an A, regardless of the issues in the M. Even with the issues, you could have chosen not to have an A, as many who find themselves here, their M in dire straights, yet they are not out seeking companionship / dating, even when physically separated and unsure if they want to work on saving their M.
That said (not in judgement, simply pointing to it as a rational choice you made), it may take your H a long, long time to trust you again. You may feel he has no right or point at his failings which created the justifications in your mind to have the A, your work is two fold.
The more important part is, get and read the DB / DR book(s) and work on yourself. Become an even better person than you already are. This is an opportunity, if you will, for you to grow through this experience so that any future Rs (or your M, if it is saved) will be so much better.
The other is, becoming open and transparent with your H. His distrust and pain is real and valid. Again, even if you felt justified, he may very well not return to the M and rebuild it with you, until you acknowledge his pain and work hard on making amends, specifically in that area. It does not mean throwing yourself at his feet and begging forgiveness. It means validate and be open and transparent, allowing him to trust you again and return to the M table, where you two can work through the other issues... the issues that led you to look for intimacy outside the M.
Thank you so much for the advice. Unfortunately, it did take me several years to realize that I was justifying my affair even though I didn't think I was. I bought DR about a month ago and that is when I realized that I had been trying to justify my behavior. To be clear, I should LRT but that isn't being completely distant, merely working on myself and letting him lead the way on where we go?
M 46 H 44 D 12 S 8 M 9 T 11 BD 2/15/13 "Makes sense to stay together" 5/12/13 Agree we are 'healing' 7/13 Definitely Piecing 9/13
The past what... 2.5 years you have been distant and emotionally detached, closed, justifying... possibly even angry and frustrated at your H, even while in the A...
I would strongly recommend reading the book "5 Love Languages". Get to understand your and your H's Love Languages (how each of you give and receive loving messages).
Next, simply BE IN the M. You are in a great position to simply 180 any valid complaints he may have about you, be open and transparent, and grow to become an even better parent, mother and possibly wife, than you already are.
This is 100% about trust. Unfortunately, you are not in a position to be request him to trust you and come back to the M. It is always to role of the LBS (in this case, you are now the LBS) to lead the way to a better M.
Drop any expectations from your H's words or actions. You are actually in a really good position, even if you don't think you are, that you have probably AT LEAST 18 months to encourage the M to get back on track, but working on yourself.
No more LRT.
What 180s can you do?
What are some of his valid complaints?
What, in yourself, do YOU think you can work on, which are different than your H's valid complaints?
I appreciate your advice, it is very helpful and makes me think. I know what I need to work on (I know there is more but these are the biggest) - thinking before I respond so I don't react negatively(with H and kids), continue to work on being happy from within, continue to bring new friends and activities into my life.
As for the last few years, I have not been distant but am usually the one trying to get him to work things out when he wants to leave and happy when we aren't divorcing. So the 180 is to give him space, not chase after him, not bring up working things out - so with that info, do I do LRT or should I be in the m as you said yesterday?
His valid complaints are that I justify my affair (not sure how to 180 this now that I realize I really was doing that because he isn't speaking to me about the M at all) and that I stay out late (maybe 2-3 times a year).
He also feels that I am really nice and thoughtful to everyone but him. Maybe reading the 5LL again will change this. I guess I do A of Svc with him and maybe that isn't his LL because I do feel that I try to do stuff for him.
Am I allowed to tell him that I realized I have been justifying my affair or should I just keep quiet and let him be. I don't want a conversation, I just want to say "I want you to know that I have done some soul searching and I understand now that I was justifying my affair and I am sorry, I didn't mean to" and walk away.
M 46 H 44 D 12 S 8 M 9 T 11 BD 2/15/13 "Makes sense to stay together" 5/12/13 Agree we are 'healing' 7/13 Definitely Piecing 9/13
My emotions are all over the place - understanding that he needs space one minute and feeling abandoned and wondering why I want to stick around the next.
M 46 H 44 D 12 S 8 M 9 T 11 BD 2/15/13 "Makes sense to stay together" 5/12/13 Agree we are 'healing' 7/13 Definitely Piecing 9/13
I guess yesterday's post didn't go through..I am working on my patience and my reactions so that I don't just snap at him or the kids, I know I do this sometimes and even more when I am stressed out, which I am. I am working on remaining happy inside even when there is stress around me. I am typically a positive person but I see how I allow that to change based on who I am dealing with and what is going on.
As far as no more LRT, and 180's - I have not been distant the past few years because I have been trying to work out our marriage and move forward. So to be nice, laugh together, etc.. is more of the same, although I have removed texting (unless it is about the kids), buying him gifts, calling to tell him about things going on in my day, etc.. Is that what I should be doing or should I do something else?
Valid complaints: He thinks I am nice and thoughtful to everyone but him. I think it may have validity in regards to his love language, which I thought was Acts of Service but maybe it isn't. Going to read 5 Love Languages again as you suggested. I do things for him but probably not the things he needs and I need to figure out what that is - but I am not supposed to right now so that is confusing, too
He gets upset if I stay out late (maybe once every 4-5 months) and says I don't care. I do care. I ask him to go out with me every few months (I don't mean I go out all of the time and ask him every few months, I only go out with friends, for drinks, every few months) He doesn't want to go, does not want to have friends over. I am social. I typically come home early but sometimes, I am having fun and letting go of all of the stress and I don't want to go home. This usually happens around the times that he leaves the marriage emotionally (usually lasts 1-2 months) and then, even though he has told me he wants a divorce he will say I don't care about him I am left wondering why I am supposed to make my decisions with him in mind when he has left me again. Being very careful this time not to have a "screw you" attitude. Trying to realize that maybe these are tests?
Very valid complaint that I try to justify my actions. I do. I honestly didn't think I did. At the time, it felt like I was being blamed for everything that was wrong in our marriage and I thought I was pointing out why it wasn't just my fault. I do realize now that it is justification and not okay. Am I allowed to tell him I realize this, simply say "I have done some soul searching and I realize now that I was trying to justify my poor choices and I am sorry for that" and then walk away? Or is this R talk and still unacceptable?
M 46 H 44 D 12 S 8 M 9 T 11 BD 2/15/13 "Makes sense to stay together" 5/12/13 Agree we are 'healing' 7/13 Definitely Piecing 9/13
As far as no more LRT, and 180's - I have not been distant the past few years because I have been trying to work out our marriage and move forward. So to be nice, ..., etc.. Is that what I should be doing or should I do something else?
The things you listed are definitely not LRT and even though they are more of the same, could go a long way to helping things get better.
You want to watch to see if things appear to be getting better, not changing or getting worse. If they are getting worse, try to determine if it is anything from the above list, such as your H saying that he does not want you to get him any more gifts. If so, stop doing it.
The 180s you will want to work on are in your list of valid complaints.
Yes, re-reading 5LL could help. Sometimes one LL can look like another. For example, buying your H a shirt as an act of service could look like a gift, for him. Also, so people are brought up to provide acts of service (taking care of the meals at family events, for example) so that appears to be their LL, when it may be something else, like quality time.
Originally Posted By: lovethehub
He gets upset if I stay out late (maybe once every 4-5 months) and says I don't care.
The above ^^^ might suggest his LL is Quality Time. He may not want to go out when you ask, because he feels you don't pay attention to him when he goes with you. Quality Time can look different to someone who does not have that as their LL.
Perhaps a 180 might be, "give" him (a gift, if that's your LL) your TIME. Let him know that you are making yourself available to do with him something of his choice, just the two of you. Even if you may not like it, even gardening together can go a long way for someone who is quality time.
If he's quality time, he wants to be social... WITH YOU... If he thinks you are always spending time with your friends and not WITH HIM, well... it makes sense to me... I'm Quality Time...
That doesn't mean stop going out with friends. It simply means giving him something that he feels might be as much time with him than with your friends. And being conscious of your time out with friends, coming home "earlier" to show that you want to be with him... more...
Originally Posted By: lovethehub
Very valid complaint that I try to justify my actions.
Your 180 here may be to truly learn how to listen and validate. Even though your feel justified, understand that his feelings are valid. When validating, you can simply say that you understand he feels that way and if you would like, apologize, but only apologize ONCE, otherwise he's holding a grudge and that is his problem. If your apology is sincere and backed up with not repeating the "offence", that is all you can do.
Also, if his LL is Words of Affirmation, then validating and apologizing could go a long, long way to helping restore the M. This, among other things like mentioning your love and appreciation for him cater to Words. Again... this is my secondary LL...
What is your LL? Do you have a secondary?
Eventually, you can help him understand your LL(s) as well, so he knows how to show that he loves you. Rather than you trying to remember that he is showing his love to you through his LL, such as hovering around you in the kitchen or telling you how nice you smell...
I hear you...I was doing LRT and being nice but pulling away, only talking if necessary but friendly when doing so, not waiting for him to watch "our" tv shows, etc. Then, my first post on here, I was given the advice not to LRT but to be in the moment, so I am watching our shows together, having conversation, laughing together. As for the rest, we get along great but there is NO us. There is zero affection, physical touch (my love language), sex, talk about us, dates - NOTHING. So I don't know how to approach this - be nice but distant or be in the moment and talk, laugh, hang out at home, etc.. He doesn't say ANYTHING PERSONAL at all.
M 46 H 44 D 12 S 8 M 9 T 11 BD 2/15/13 "Makes sense to stay together" 5/12/13 Agree we are 'healing' 7/13 Definitely Piecing 9/13
