Deciding What to Do.....

[MyNewStrength]

Here is my new thread. The link to my previous thread is:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2385441#Post2385441

" When you said that "It's him leaving a marriage he finds unacceptable." What did you mean?

So do you think he knows leaving the marriage is unacceptable?

I do have DB coach and I spoke with him on yesterday. I am almost positive that is why I was able to speak to my H yesterday with calmness. [/b]

I don't think he feels the marriage is acceptable, to him. He wants out.

That hurts. I get it.

My point was, in HIS MIND, he's trying to be civil. And truth be told, as hard as it is to see right now, he COULD be worse.

He could cut off the utilities and NOT tell you. He could give you zero information and refuse to work anything out.

It feels cold to you, that he seems so business like. I get that. I know that hurts. I'm saying if you stick around here long enough, you'll see that there really are worse behaviors.

And his behavior in HIS EYES, does matter. It's how HE sees things. And no matter what happens, you need to be able to see his point of view even if you disagree with it,'

even if you think he is sooo wrong...b/c it's not really about being right, it's about being happy, and married.

So you're going to have to stop trying to get him to admit being wrong or to see that he's wrong. Your goal is, certainly to make him have second thoughts, of course.

But you won't do that with any negative behavior or words. I'm a L. I felt my arguments for our marriage and staying together as a family would "win" in front of the Supreme Court. I really did. I made those arguments to every member of my family and every friend that would listen and they ALL agreed with me.

My cogent arguments and keen insights and persuasive conclusions, ALL

Made no difference TO MY H, and he's all that matters in this situation.

As I said earlier, the more you challenge your h's choices, the more you force him to defend those choices. You have not once let him just BE to stare at his new life.

MY Db coach said to let my h discover the CONTRAST between the life he was creating for himself, and the life he left behind.

Here, we were together (me and kids) in a warm sunny area and did our best to have fun times together. I did my best to NOT negate my h.

(BTW Congrats on the DB coach. Good for you. If I ever say anything that differs substantively from what your coach says, ignore me and go with the DB coach).

Here are my two best examples of what I'm trying to suggest and also, what changed my life in a small but pivotal way.

First, just after H had left to live "up the road" (300 miles up the road) and before he left for the Last Frontier, he stopped paying all the bills he'd paid for 20 years. He also forgot to tell me he wasn't paying them anymore.

The day the power guy came to shut off our power was also the day I was prepping to evacuate the house b/c of the fires in the area so it was a RED LETTER day for me... mad

But I had a session with my DB coach that day right after I paid the enormous electric bill. She talked me down some and reminded me of the applause for positives, etc.

Then h called and I told him the power was almost cut off and trust me when I say my anger was only barely contained and only b/c of the DB session. She gave me a point of view I'd never had before in that type of situation where I felt my h was totally wrong and selfish. ANYHOW

H said nothing about being sorry but I said something about how he needed to tell me about the financial aspects of his departure, etc and he got mad and said "Now you know what it's like to pay bills like I have for the past 20 years!"

To which I said, "I know, and I want to THANK YOU for paying them all these years b/c it's very stressful."

At least ten seconds passed before he said "you're welcome". Maybe seems trivial but it's not.

That moment in time was a CHANGE for us. A new behavior on MY end, and which elicited a new behavior on HIS end....and a moment for us to have peace instead of war, which is what he clearly was expecting.

So instead of a fight, we had no fight and instead of just a neutral informational moment, I actually thanked him for something he HAD done in the past that I had never thanked him for. And it was a drag to pay the bills...he deserved thanks.

The harder example was about 8 weeks before h was to leave for Alaska. He had a 4 day conference in a resort area. He asked me and our 2 d's to go with him. I could not believe it!

I thought "no way".

I balked. I mean, why fake "happy family" when the axe was going to fall soon?
I could not imagine going and rewarding him, pretending, or letting him be in denial, ETC.

My DB coach said something very different and very wise.

1) If this is your last vacation together, why not make it a good memory for your daughters?

2) why not make it a good memory for HIM so he'd have something to MISS?

And 3) to NOT fight and NOT get angry. IN sum, she said my anger, however "right" I felt I was, or however justified my feelings were, they were not as important as my children having a good memory with their dad and me together.

My anger was not so important but honestly, sadly, it had been something I righteously clung to for too long.

Thanks to my DB coach,

I figured, maybe I could repress my anger for FOUR days...for FOUR days I could with hold my anger and my negative feelings and suppress my fears,

for my daughters and for the possibility that h would later regret things and maybe that I might even enjoy myself.

I didn't think I would, but I thought MAYBE I could pull off having some fun with the girls and they'd have a good memory of their dad. I did not realize that I might actually begin to FEEL differently by behaving differently, but it's what happened.

Also, I'm embarrassed to admit that when I contemplated this, I sort of comforted myself with the belief that "hey, I can always be angry and mean LATER"...so it wasn't going to cost me anything to be kind and warm or at least, neutral, for four days...

At first as we were driving there, I thought h was getting a bit nerdy telling the girls about some wild life we saw.

BUT I stopped myself and instead, CHOSE to see him in a new way and I realized that in reality, the girls were learning from their dad. And it's a good thing that h is educated and smart. (And really I was simply being fairer to h)

Why was I seeing him so negatively before? Probably B/C he'd hurt me and it probably felt like a protective thing to do.

But it was actually destructive to our m, and that's just one tiny example of how I had let my anger poison my behavior and what I showed the kids.

Anyhow, I forced myself to "neutralize" anything negative I thought or felt, and sometimes, I was able to convert it into a positive. It got easier after only a day or so. And pretty soon, H behaved in a more relaxed way. He got happier and more positive as well. We both had some laughs too. And some romantic moments too, believe it or not.

And best of all, the girls had a blast with him and me. Went up a mountain and rode horses. We count that as a very good memory. And it was something h thought about later on. It was about 6 months later his loneliness got to him and his calls became daily events, sometimes more than once a day.

Give yourself a day at a time with this approach, (or a "conversation at a time") and pat yourself on the back when it works.

** Turn your anger and your pain over to God and let HIM hold onto it for you. It's awfully heavy to carry all the time on your own.

Also, a divorce is a piece of paper. I have two family members who remarried their former spouses, years after their divorce. I know that seems crazy at this time, but they all changed and improved as individuals.

So when the time came, they had better m's the 2nd time around.
So yes, It happens.

Keep working on yourself so that you are a better partner, no matter what happens. This whole DB experience is not about assigning blame or being declared right or wrong.

It's about saving yourself in a very difficult situation, and then becoming a better person....and sometimes marriages get saved too.

But no marriage will be salvaged for long, if you don't work on you. Changes must be made on both sides. But it begins with you.

Yes, we know HE has his work to do.

But guess what? YOU ARE HERE working on you to save your marriage

AND HE IS NOT HERE...so

Our focus is only on you and your fascinating exciting life that you will create and that awaits you around the corner...

So what difference does his measure of blame make, now, here?

There is just no point in worrying about his share of the blame or measuring who is most wrong and who is most right or hurt. Now is not the time for that. Just the opposite. But to be fair to yourself, be honest about the marriage. Was he really a good h to you?

You both had forgiveness work to do and according to you, you had felt unhappy for a long time. You expressed this to him over a period of time. Unbeknownst to you, instead of him hearing that you wanted x, y and z from him, he heard that you were unhappy WITH HIM and therefore he was flawed and at fault and "wrong". After awhile, most men begin to think anything we say that isn't postive it nagging. For sure if we say it more than twice, it's not effective but we do it anyhow and it's nagging to them.

And that is one small example of mistakes many of us make.

Keep at this and take notes when you talk with your DB coach and I used to write down questions before we spoke. After I'd read my notes, I'd summarize the best parts and put them on a list of "rules" or mantras for me to remind myself of before any conversation with h.

It helps.

Good luck


Don't revise the marriage in a way that makes you feel you have lost the greatest h to ever live----just as he might revise the marriage into being "a total empty marriage long ago ended blah blah blah..."

So, I am not suggesting you wallow in his negatives, right after I told you the opposite and that you must only see his positives.

I am saying if & when you are around him, it's got to be a positive focus reflected from you.

But alone, when you have time to reflect, be real about what is happening to you so you can better equip yourself for the life you are creating that will be fulfilling to YOU.

A fulfilled woman, a content woman, a woman who sees the best in life and people and respects herself, is an attractive woman. And she's a happy woman.

Who doesn't want to be with her? Who doesn't want to BE her?
[/quote]

25yearsmlc - You make some very valid points. This is my 2nd time around with the affair and the 3rd time he has left. When I speak with him, I try to be positive but then he wants me to do as he wants and it infuriates me!! I try to keep it together but his dismissal of ME is truly what is heartbreaking and hurtful and after everything I have DONE for him - FORGIVED, LOVED, CONSOLED, and SUPPORTED. My DB coach told me the same as your coach noted - right now it is all about him and any attempt to talk about the R will push him further away. He will have a "season" with the OW, but I need to be the source of support and NOT a wife to him. Someone that he KNOWS he can speak with regarding his life and the only way to do that is to BE STRONG and DETACH, move on with my life, so things I have always wanted to do. He says my H was attracted in the beginning due to my independence and the fact that I worked hard to achieve my professional goals. I was a happy and very free person back then.

I guess I am finding it difficult to exercise these actions. My H called on his way to his friends house last night and we spoke for about 40 minutes. I think he wanted someone to keep him company - I use to do that when he was on long drives during our marriage. But his conversation was about the PSA and the points my lawyer made. She outlined the things to consider and indicated that he would receive additional explanations for the items listed today. Well he initially started in one me when he first called, but instead of my wimpy teary voice, I was very clear and succinct - Please I ask that you don't use that tone and I would be happy to discuss the points with you. He then apologized and we spoke about transitioning the utilities. I ended the conversation first and wish him a good weekend.

I was so sad last night. It is all the overwhelming grief. Prior to our phone call yesterday, he continued to send me crazy messages that truly are hurtful like. Said he was disappointed in me, sent me a message yesterday asking about his blood pressure medication because he was on his last pill. So I put it on the porch chair as he requested and then he sends another later saying that I am not being "collaborative" with the PSA/divorce and to "what end".

SO today, I contacted my lawyer and told her that I want to file for divorce NOW. I have grounds as we have already discussed. I want to move forward and file for divorce now on grounds of adultery, mental and emotional abuse, and desertion. I want this now because I cannot handle this any longer. Any it will force me to move forward. not sure if I want to do this now, but it is the only way to get him off my back

I am emotionally distraught about doing this...

[planet]

It must be difficult for you to have arrive at this point but please can you hold back from making a decision right now. Take a day at least and come back to this after that.

[AnotherStander]

I'm very sorry your H is treating you that way, you don't deserve that! Did you discuss your desire to initiate D with your DB coach? Just make sure you're acting out of logic and reason rather than emotions, because emotions are temporary and constantly changing.

[MyNewStrength]

Planet and AS - My decision is based on PURE emotion. I do not want a D, but how do I get the badgering to stop and it will not make a difference anyway.

I am suffering. My mind cannot not shut off the pain and thoughts of everything I have been through. My soul is crying out for my love, for my family, for my friends, for God. But there is nothing - only silence. Complete silence.

I am ashamed of me. How can I love someone who has betrayed the one value I cherish most? But I do love him. I was raised to love and trust in God and to ALWAYS do the RIGHT thing when it came to others no matter what. And I am screaming at God for this trial in my life after so many suffering experiences in the past. And I know we all have past experiences.

I have always wanted a child, but I had miscarriages and discovered that I could never bear children. I felt like less than a woman. I cried and still cry for this loss.

How can God put this trial in my way after I have suffered. When is it enough? Why when I have ALWAYS done right by my husband, my mom, my sisters, niece, and nephews. We (my husband and I) bought a small house for my mother after she recovered from brain cancer, a stroke, and a heart attack 5 years ago and now he saying that we spent all of our money on her. THIS was NEVER an issue before because we made the decision to buy and wanted her to be comfortable. My mom's retirement pay is very small and she could not afford even an apartment on her own. I am not sure what to do know about that because he is not going to help with those expenses any longer.

Divorce is now a marker of achievement. This world is not just.. How and why do the evil, wicked, sinful, and deceitful prosper and are happy? And the wronged are wrought with despair and betrayal? Please don't say that God wants us to be closer to him or that he is making room for something else in our lives, because I have heard that. That theory conflicts with the other teachings from the bible.

I pray on my knees everyday for the love, safety, health and protection of my family and friends and always end with a special prayer for my husband. God has turned his face away from me, as have others.

My soul and my faith has been rocked recently by all of this because it "I" DID NOT (YOU DID NOT) deserve this? Where is God when there is so much hurt and pain? I was a good daughter, wife, sister, and aunt. I may never get a honest response from my Husband on why he did this again, but I thought God would help me understand and would fix it.

But now, I get up every morning at 3 because my brain cannot rest from the shame of having been betrayed for a second time and deposited out. My conscience cannot rest, so then betrayal must be common for people without a conscience.

My Husband has said he is NOT coming back.....in the past he never said that and never really took steps to initiate or badger me into a divorce. So now, all hope is lost, he has taken steps to get as far away from me. Even my friends haven't called and I don't want to be a bother to them. SO I came here to vent and write my thoughts.

I am lonely, I am alone - no one to hug, no one to share anything with. It is all so engulfing that I want to give up.
:'(

[planet]

This is what 25yearsmlc wrote on my thread.

The "secret" is to become the best person you can become, which means you will be happier in the long run, no matter what your w does. Truly believing that you are going to be fine, regardless, gives a confidence that many find attractive.

It's a paradox in a way.

I just think you must KNOW that you will be alright, regardless of your wife's choices.

When I truly believed that, when i KNEW i was going to be happy again, regardless, and began making plans for my new life, an inner peace came to me.

I began looking forward to my new life (& freedom), and then....somehow it radiated from within. I mean it began to show on the outside..

Believe YOU are going to be OK.
I hold on to these few words dearly. It helped me to drop my guilt over my actions or inaction over the course of my M. I felt happier now compared to the first 4 months.

You are not alone. I have trouble sleeping too. I get up around 4am-5am each day regardless of the time i go to bed. I'm working on this. I hope you do too.

[hotwheelsaust]

Good advice planet. Hugs to you MNS,we know what you are feeling. Even though you are alone physically, you are with fellow friends mentally.

[willbwell]

MNS, oh, I know how you feel. Astounding to me that there are so many of us. I had no idea before I entered this world of h's MLC. I too am a deeply spiritual person. Sometimes at those awful, terrible painful moments, I ask God to please take this pain from me so I can rest. We need our rest.
I constantly question my faith. I know I am a good person and come from a good and holy family. and I know too I am easy pickings for the devil. So I pray about that too.
I get that life is not fair.
I can only say to you to breath. go take a walk now and ask for continual patience and courage. I am in this same boat with you. so many of us are.
It makes it no easier of course but just know you are not alone. I will be praying for you today.
One more thing I want to share. I keep asking God, give me a message please....It struck me recently, perhaps God is giving me the message over and again, but it was not the message I wanted to hear.... maybe,

[MyNewStrength]

Been away for a couple of days...

Trying to have a good night, but had brief cry after realizing that I didn't have anyone to help me move furniture (that my H wants) to the garage. So I had to ask a stranger to help move a few pieces of furniture tomorrow if possible. The H stops by at 10 am on Saturday and I just don't want him in the house but he is asking me to pay half the mortgage to be FAIR (??) because he cannot afford to pay his rent and utilities at the apartment and still pay the full mortgage.

I still very much want him to change his mind. However, he won't because he is resolved and wants me to get it - that we ARE getting divorced.

I guess he is not in MLC if he seems so confident and sure of his actions?

I am just trying to live day to day without falling apart. I am letting him get his things from the garage based on the list he provided me.

Thoughts?

[MyNewStrength]

Well, it is done. He came and picked up his things to move to his apartment. I was in tears after he left for about an hour. The pain was unbearable knowing that he REALLY believes he is done. There was no relationship talk and he only asked to come into the house to get his heavy coat and to look for a tool from his workshop.

I love him so. Maybe God's answer was that he is not coming back and to get on. I am still confused. He hardly said anything but that he wants to be my friend if I would let him and that he does not want to talk about the marriage, only the move forward. I held up okay just until he walked out the door. I just collapsed. It is over....he is really moving forward and appears that he has accepted it.

Oh my God, please take me away.

[JFred]

MNS...
I wish I could say something that would take your pain away. I am praying for you. Like you, I have many sleepless nights. Like you, I question faith and God sometimes. I ruined my 16 year marriage (18 year relationship) with an affair. I realized too late how much my wife meant to me. At my wife's request, I moved out on Aug 7th. This past weekend she told me she is filing for divorce. I have been in IC since June. This has helped me see the hurt I have caused and the reasoning behind my actions/choices. However, that still does not help the sleepless nights and the feelings of hopelessness.
As so many on this board have said...you are a person...you HAVE value. Use this time to better yourself. Keep your eye on the Lord..He has you in His hands and will not let you slip through His fingers. You can trust Him. Even when it seems hopeless, He is there for you.
Take care and God Bless