How to convince resistant LD wife?

[ssmguy]

Ambivalent, if you're still there, I'd like to know what convinced you to work on your problem? I assume you were somewhat like my wife. It's hard for me to understand how my wife thinks because I've been HD my whole adult and teenage life. The best I can tell, my wife sees my interest as an obsession with something that has no practical value, and is only a sort of internal-meditative selfish pleasure experience. At this point, her approach to my sexuality is more like, well, do whatever you need to do, just don't cause some huge embarrassment or complicate our lives. What's the hook that will work for her? How do you convince a person who sees no reason to even want to want?

At this point, I simply don't know what more I can do. I really have tried just about everything. Almost every suggestion I get is something I've already tried. It's with mixed feelings that I read of other couples who seem to be in my situation, including couples described in MWD's book on sexless marriages, who then go on to solve the problem. But at this point I'm convinced that these accounts leave out the failure cases. Understandably, if you're trying to solve a problem, who wants to read about people who tried and failed?

So, right off the bat, let's be clear that my case is one which is not solved with the simple love life advice given in virtually every magazine at the checkout counter. Lighting scented candles and drawing a warm bath does not work. A romantic evening at a fine restaurant with good conversation, handholding, and even kissing -- doesn't work. A nice getaway vacation for just the two of us -- doesn't work. She enjoys all those things, but it doesn't make her one bit more interested in sex. Not at all.

Also, I'm not interested in threatening divorce in order to get sex. That doesn't really work and doesn't establish the kind of relationship I want anyway. And in my case, even that wouldn't work.

Finally, I understand that I can just "move on", as I have been advised many times. I'm smart enough to realize that option is always there -- that takes no thinking whatsoever.

[Crazyville]

ssmguy, is there anything that you can think of in reverse? Something where your W has an intense passion for something and you just don't "get it?" Like my H plays golf. Loves. it. While I can't for the life of me figure out what there is to like about it. He's tried buying me the clothes, the shoes, picking out a nice bag, scheduling a time when it's not too early, too crowded, too inconvenient. It just doesn't make any difference. Sure, I like the new clothes, the nice landscaping, the luxurious amenities of the country club. But no matter how he "wraps it up," it's still golf and I simply don't find any appeal in it.

Does your W have anything similar? Perhaps jigsaw puzzles, or stitching, or Bunko, or reading recipe books? I'm pretty certain you don't simply love everything for which your W has a passion.

If you can come up with something, what would be YOUR answer to your question. In other words, what could your W do "around" the act of assembling a jigsaw puzzle that would make you have a passion for jigsaw puzzles (figuratively)?

[Crazyville]

I just read your post on another thread, indicating the ludicrous effort of a homosexual thinking he could "wine and dine" you into wanting to have sex with him. You referred to it as sexual orientation. How do you see it any different with your W? It sounds like her sexual orientation is not homosexual or bi-sexual, but simply non-sexual.

Is it really more rational to think you can (or should) do something to change her sexual orientation of "not liking it" into "liking it," when you could more easily (since YOU would be changing YOU) change your sexual orientation from "liking it" into "not liking it"? (No, I'm not saying it would be easy, it's just always easier to change ourselves than to try to change someone else.)

If you could take a pill to kill your sex drive, would you?

[MrBond]

For everything that you've "tried", how many times have you tried them? Did you do something and didn't get a reaction and then figure it doesn't work? Sometimes the situation has to build slowly and while you may not see immediate results, they may be the start of something.

[ssmguy]

Well, restaurants, for example. We go out about every week or two for a nice romantic dinner and conversation. So, let's see, that would be about 500 restaurant dinners with no sex, no exceptions. Do you think continuing to 1,000 or 2,000 restaurant dinners would do the trick?

So that would be an indirect approach with no expectations. As for direct approaches, like trying to talk about it, I did it too much, so much that she regarded it as harassment after a while.

[Ambivalent]

ssmguy,

He walked out the door.

I looked into our past, the things that we withstood, and looked within myself. Not easy. You see my drive is attached to how he treated me even since before we got married. The first episode of a non libido was when we were living together just prior to our marriage.

It went pffft! Scared me to death! I had no clue why it left, and no matter what I could not get attracted sexually to him.

I told him what happened and would he give me some time? He did, he didn't bug me, ask me, but I always felt pressure. That's a killer too.

Eventually it slowly came back. Then kids came and a HUGE amount of stress and anxiety. I was exhausted all the time, I had horrible allergies, to the point of double conjunctivitis, double ear infections, sinus infections and upper resp. infections. At time all at once...get the picture...not pretty.

So pretty much on and off in the marriage I'd just be wiped. Then my cycle would come and I'd get randy!

Prior to my husband leaving the longest we'd ever gone without was eight months. I had many issues, no c. orgasm w/o a vibrator. Didn't know the urge to urinate was a different type of orgasm, how my body looked, yadda yadda yadda.

I never felt comfortable with my own body. Never gave myself an orgasm digitally. Heck I was pretty sheltered when I was younger, and had NO clue!

When he left this past May, I decided I was going to learn all I could. First I had to figure out why the libido wasn't there. It does have much to do with how I felt and the hurt that was caused by he and the priorities he put before me. Family, friends, golf.

When I tried to change and add some spice with a cool work book, it had sealed envelopes for his or her eyes only . I was really excited about it! I got shot down. He wanted NOTHING to do with it. I was humiliated/embarrassed and withdrew.

Later I tried again, got a spur of the moment sitter and got a hotel room. Lingerie, had his buddy at work lure him to the hotel room.
He was surprised but couldn't shift gears and it was a flop.

So I did try but felt stupid too many times and then the pressure to initiate came. It was if I couldn't win. If I didn't say no, and had sex, " I wasn't involved ". If I didn't initiate, he thought I didn't want it. I had asked him to touch my face , hold it. He felt awkward.

If I wanted to be thrown against a wall, nope wasn't gonna happen.

I felt defeated in so many ways. I was too afraid to express my needs, touch myself, and ask what he wanted.

So it was just a personal decision to educate myself. I decided to home school, lol!

I read everything, I researched toys, essays on techniques, watched amateur porn. Learned what took me from zero to 75. I even wrote a couple of erotic stories!

I may never get the chance to share this with my husband, because he is SO hurt . He felt unloved and probably undesirable. I can only try to bring back some form of trust. But he's in MLC and that's a WHOLE other bag of worms!

You see, I am a researcher, very curious, and if given a challenge I rise to it. Losing him is what has triggered my desire. Wanting to meet HIS needs, SHOW him how much I love him. I had NO clue what sex meant to him, to men.

I was clueless as to how much I crushed his soul. When you see a big man cry ( he's over six feet and muscular ) because he perceived me as not wanting to touch him, it rips your heart out!
I was devastated in that office, I never sobbed so hard in my life. And it wasn't for me, it was that I contributed to him feeling so horrible.

So SSMG, I don't know how much of what I shared can actually help you. I just remember some of the things I read, one of them was " just do it ". Well obviously I can't now.

I have to wait until he feels safe again. He may never come around. I know how it feels, even if he can't remember how I was treated, probably because I didn't tell him how I felt.

I'm trying now, even though he says I look great, but he's not sexually attracted to me and HE can't figure out why!
I'd love to tell him that sexual libido comes and goes, that hormones drop at our age, that stress and anxiety are KILLERS in that area, and trying to will it to come won't work, but it can't come from me.

You see, him leaving made me really think. It made me put what was important to him, on a list of priorities. I needed to see that I could not expect him to do without, that I had to try harder, and yes again!

[ssmguy]

How do you see it any different with your W? It sounds like her sexual orientation is not homosexual or bi-sexual, but simply non-sexual.

That was my speculation about ways to understand how it might seem to be for her. Of course, in her case, she once did appear to like sex. But it has been so long ago that I think she has lost any good memory of what it was like.

It's a way of looking at it that makes it clear how difficult it might be. Might be. But I haven't given up yet.

If you could take a pill to kill your sex drive, would you?

No. Because then I would feel that I have lost even more. It's part of life. With no sex life, and no desire for it, I would feel like a zombie -- a shell of my former self.

[ssmguy]

Ambivalent, I'm curious to know how you think you might have reacted if your husband behaved more like me.

Just curious though, when you first were living together and your libido went pffft, were you using birth control pills and/or anti-depressants? This scenario has caused libido trouble for many young women and many doctors are too clueless to warn about it.

My wife would probably describe a lot of our early marriage the same way you did with regard to being stressed out, kids, exhausted, allergies, infections, etc. And also similar with regard to her own body and orgasms.

But when it comes to you fixing yourself, and trying to involve your husband, you two have flipped roles compared to my wife and I. I've tried to get her to a motel room for a "tryst" away from home, and it was a flop. I've tried getting her books on female orgams, etc., and it flopped badly. She was insulted and I felt embarrassed. She accused me of being way too focused on sex, like I was some kind of pervert.

Unlike your husband, even though I felt rejected and unloved many times, I never lost my libido, and she could easily have seduced me any time. Though her rejection of me certainly made me feel crushed at times, I never cried about it. I've never had an MLC and I'm almost always in good spirits, with lots of interests that keep me going (yes, besides sex, believe it or not!)

So if your husband had been in good spirits and his sexual desire for you had never waned one bit, and he only tried to talk to you about the lack of sex as a problem all the time, while cheerfully wining and dining you, would you have taken him seriously?

Perhaps his loss of sexual desire for you was part of what made you realize the effect it had on him? Perhaps my unchanged desire for my wife, no matter what, makes her feel like I'm not really experiencing a problem? Perhaps if I cried and seemed depressed she'd have more feelings for me? Perhaps she just thinks of me as an endlessly cheerful sex machine that's not tied to real feelings?

How would you have reacted if your husband had acted like me?

[ssmguy]

If you can come up with something, what would be YOUR answer to your question. In other words, what could your W do "around" the act of assembling a jigsaw puzzle that would make you have a passion for jigsaw puzzles (figuratively)?

She could have her hand down my pants and giving me squeezes while doing the jigsaw puzzle. OK, otherwise she could just have a sense of humor, talk about stuff, flirt, or challenge me to help with some aspect of the puzzle.

Not sure where this is going because my wife is happy with all the things that are traditionally supposed to make ANY WOMAN melt and want to jump her husband. But that just ain't so in our case. I don't know how to build more of non-sexual context that could be conducive to sex.

[MrBond]

I don't exactly see how you equate dinner with sex. After doing it for so long, your W probably doesn't see it as anything but dinner. I'm talking about the more "non-traditional things you've done. Like the bath thing. Have you ever joined her in it?