Reality of our marriage. Where things really began to change for us for me is very clear: 10 years ago with the birth of our second child. This coincided with me taking a new job with more time, more responsibility, more money, further away from home, etc. Things really changed and began to deteriorate at that point. Because of my job and my dedication to the job, W became a single mother for several months during the year. She then became responsible for the caring of 2 kids on her own during that time. Caring for 1 was new and exciting for us, but 2 meant so much more work. I was only there for her and the boys part time during a part of the year. Our relationship began the road to lack of intimacy and communication as it drifted further apart in every sense of the word.
In the beginning, W was really interested in my new job and there was some early talk about us moving closer. I was blinded by my own ambition to have a better job and responsibility and to "be someone" that I never really took the time to ask if this was the right thing for our family, especially at that time. W showed support for my desire, and never stood in the way, but as a family, we never really talked about it.
During the last 10 years I have attempted to talk to W about our lack of intimacy and closeness. One particular talk we had when we were out on an anniversary date was about who she was. She had taken on the role of nurturer for so long that she didn't even know who she was anymore. She was only Mrs.___ or Mommy. I longed to have the beautiful, vivacious, outgoing woman that I fell in love with back. I felt like I had an understanding of where she was at with these roles, but was less than willing to accept my role in creating them.
During several of these R talks years ago, W seemed to only believe that I was requesting more sex. I love ML, but I tried to articulate to her that I desired more hugs, holding hands, and general physical closeness. I now understand now that my #1 love language is physical touch. I also believe that is the case because there was very little of that in my house growing up. I didn't receive lots of hugs and ILY's when I was growing up. For years, I failed to grasp why I desired physical touch so much. If I could have spoken clearly to W instead of sounding like I was complaining or requesting her to change, I could have helped her to understand my needs.
W has told me during the last 3 months since BD that she fell in love with me because of my big heart and that I accepted her with all of her faults. I also accepted her family as they were with no judgement. In the last few years, as our marriage has turned into "going through the motions," i have became less involved and less excited about spending time around MIL and FIL. Family is super important to W, but was never to me. I never lived around extended family, my parents D happened in 1995 (6 months before we got married), F died of cancer in 2007 and he and I never really reconciled our relationship after he and M both remarried. To say that W and I have different views of family is an understatement.
We've spent the last few years becoming chauffeurs for our children to and from ball practice, to and from school, to and from birthday parties, etc. W has been the primary runner and caretaker of our children. She has always been the mothering type, but I did nothing to help along the way. I would run kids when I could. I have coached my boys ball teams every year. I have done my share of housework and most of the yardwork. However, I have never really spent the time honoring W for sacrificing herself and her own personal existence and her own personal needs for the sake of our family. Valentines Days and anniversaries have become routines for us. Nothing special.
I have a hard time remembering the last time W said ILY without me saying it first. I cannot remember the last time she initiated any physical contact (hug, kiss, hand holding, ML). I am very aware of these things, even keeping score of them all. In turn, I'm sure that she cannot remember the last time I went out of the way to say a heartfelt thank you for things that she has done on a daily basis. I'm sure she can't remember the last time I asked her about her day without quickly moving onto my day. I'm sure she can't remember the last time that I went out and planned a date for us, getting a sitter for the boys and everything. I know she can't remember, because I can't either.
Enough for now.
Both 40 T-22 M-18 S13 S11
Bomb, ILYBINILWY-7/10/13 EA #1-confirmed 7/10/13, ongoing since 5/13 EA #2-9/13/13
Reality of our marriage. Where things really began to change for us for me is very clear: 10 years ago with the birth of our second child. This coincided with me taking a new job with more time, more responsibility, more money, further away from home, etc. Things really changed and began to deteriorate at that point. Because of my job and my dedication to the job, W became a single mother for several months during the year. She then became responsible for the caring of 2 kids on her own during that time. Caring for 1 was new and exciting for us, but 2 meant so much more work. I was only there for her and the boys part time during a part of the year. Our relationship began the road to lack of intimacy and communication as it drifted further apart in every sense of the word.
Would you say that you loved her then ??
Or did this feel more like an obligation that you had to fulfill ???
Your "duty" as a Husband ?
Or because you wanted to protect them, and provide for them ???
It's okay to say both here, I just want you to see the two sides, and how that must have appeared to her.
Keep in mind that whilst you may have SAID the right things. Your ACTIONS were way different.
You stand, and say that she ran away from the marriage.
Her words might say that YOU were the one who abandoned the Marriage (emotionally) first....
Who is MORE right ???
Does it matter now ???
What would you say, is the difference between Love and Obligation ???
Originally Posted By: JFun51
In the beginning, W was really interested in my new job and there was some early talk about us moving closer. I was blinded by my own ambition to have a better job and responsibility and to "be someone" that I never really took the time to ask if this was the right thing for our family, especially at that time. W showed support for my desire, and never stood in the way, but as a family, we never really talked about it.
What would that have looked like ???
How do you want that to look in the future ???
Originally Posted By: JFun51
During the last 10 years I have attempted to talk to W about our lack of intimacy and closeness. One particular talk we had when we were out on an anniversary date was about who she was. She had taken on the role of nurturer for so long that she didn't even know who she was anymore. She was only Mrs.___ or Mommy. I longed to have the beautiful, vivacious, outgoing woman that I fell in love with back. I felt like I had an understanding of where she was at with these roles, but was less than willing to accept my role in creating them.
During several of these R talks years ago, W seemed to only believe that I was requesting more sex. I love ML, but I tried to articulate to her that I desired more hugs, holding hands, and general physical closeness. I now understand now that my #1 love language is physical touch. I also believe that is the case because there was very little of that in my house growing up. I didn't receive lots of hugs and ILY's when I was growing up. For years, I failed to grasp why I desired physical touch so much. If I could have spoken clearly to W instead of sounding like I was complaining or requesting her to change, I could have helped her to understand my needs.
You speak of the 5LL here, and what your LL is.
What is hers ?
Did you even know about the LL's before this ?
The problem that I have ALWAYS had with the 5LL book, is that the LBS tends to read it shortly after the bomb, and it hurts like hell. It reads as another on a long list of failures that the LBS has incurred.
IF the LBS is going to read the 5LL, then I suggest re-reading it again in a few months, and see just how differently it comes across then.
Another thing, is that how we feel love, is not necessarily the same way that we GIVE love.
You say that you feel love by PT. How do you SHOW love ???
AOS ?
WOA ?
QT?
Gifts ?
Know how you give and receive love first, then you will understand more of your actions.
Take a glance at both sides for her as well, just don't dwell on it too much.
She did the best that she could, the same as you did.....
Originally Posted By: JFun51
We've spent the last few years becoming chauffeurs for our children to and from ball practice, to and from school, to and from birthday parties, etc. W has been the primary runner and caretaker of our children. She has always been the mothering type, but I did nothing to help along the way. I would run kids when I could. I have coached my boys ball teams every year. I have done my share of housework and most of the yardwork. However, I have never really spent the time honoring W for sacrificing herself and her own personal existence and her own personal needs for the sake of our family. Valentines Days and anniversaries have become routines for us. Nothing special.
I have a hard time remembering the last time W said ILY without me saying it first. I cannot remember the last time she initiated any physical contact (hug, kiss, hand holding, ML). I am very aware of these things, even keeping score of them all. In turn, I'm sure that she cannot remember the last time I went out of the way to say a heartfelt thank you for things that she has done on a daily basis. I'm sure she can't remember the last time I asked her about her day without quickly moving onto my day. I'm sure she can't remember the last time that I went out and planned a date for us, getting a sitter for the boys and everything. I know she can't remember, because I can't either.
Guilt is just as good of a reason as any, to START your stand....
It is a great motivator ...
Eventually, you are gonna see this differently...
And I will leave this alone for now..
Although I want you to recognize what your feelings are now
And at least be honest about that part. We all do it....
Did I love her? I don't know if I know how to answer that one anymore. I love the idea of having another person with me. I love her beauty inside and out. I love the fact that we have created a life together. I love that we have a shared history. I love that we have always been friends and friendly with one another. I crave her touch and tenderness. I desire her admiration and adoration.
Duty? I think marriage should be a partnership. Give from both sides to achieve the goal of fulfillment. I did not hold up my end of the partnership in words or actions. I wanted to provide the things that I thought my family needed: money, house, security, etc. Since we got married, there has always been a goal in front of us. Get a house, get a car, have child, have another child, get better job, get better house, etc. Station to station.
Emotionally checked out? Beat you to that one last night on my own. I had a great epiphany last night while running alone. I checked out on her and the kids long before she did. This hit me like a ton of bricks. I was overwhelmed by it.
I know it doesn't matter who is more right at this point. All that matters is me fixing myself and living the life of a man that I want to be the rest of my life.
Love=Making the choice to fulfill someone else's needs. Emotional, physical, and spiritual. It means understanding and caring about what they need even when they may not know it themselves.
A real talk about my job direction 10 years ago would have probably not gone well. If W expressed real concerns about me spending so much time there, I would have been selfish and accused her of standing in the way of my dream. There really was never a "we" talk about my new job.
Future: I want a partnership in which there is caring, understanding, and honesty from both sides about our direction and our own needs.
As far as 5LL, I actually read it before BD. We both took the test and identified our L then. Hers was WOA. I was blown away, and remember asking her if she really needed me to tell her more often how wonderful and beautiful she is. I had assumes AOS because she always wanted me to do more around the house and be more like her dad fixing everything that breaks.
Post BD, we read it together and tested again. Strangely, 2nd time through her LL became QT, AOS, and Gifts equally. Mine was still overwhelmingly PT.
I love hugs and touch with everyone, male and female. I am a big hand shaker, shoulder toucher, head patter, etc. I see that about myself. I love to receive those in return.
I think I see W expressing her love through gifts more often. She loves to shower S12 & S10 with gifts. Every time they do something positive (grades, sports, etc) there is a reward. Every paycheck for us=reward for the boys. I'm not sure if that's how she feels that she secures their love, because the boys always say thank you and give hugs and show appreciation. Or maybe she wants to be showered herself with adoration and gifts.
Scary thought: I may have never really loved her to begin with. She came along at the right time when I needed someone to start my adult life with. She rescued me from a dark place in my life. She nurtured me like she nurtured her brother, her father, and does our kids now. She may have never loved me either. I filled a hole for her just like she filled a void for me. From the very beginning, we may have been going through the motions. Following an established plan:
1-Find a suitable mate in your early 20s 2-Marry, start a life. 3-Find some financial security 4-Have kids 5-Progress in your careers to provide for your kids 6-Find out you aren't really compatible 7-Fall out of love, distract yourself with activities 8-You know the rest
I think I'm going to be sick.
Both 40 T-22 M-18 S13 S11
Bomb, ILYBINILWY-7/10/13 EA #1-confirmed 7/10/13, ongoing since 5/13 EA #2-9/13/13
Scary thought: I may have never really loved her to begin with. She came along at the right time when I needed someone to start my adult life with. She rescued me from a dark place in my life. She nurtured me like she nurtured her brother, her father, and does our kids now. She may have never loved me either. I filled a hole for her just like she filled a void for me. From the very beginning, we may have been going through the motions. Following an established plan:
1-Find a suitable mate in your early 20s 2-Marry, start a life. 3-Find some financial security 4-Have kids 5-Progress in your careers to provide for your kids 6-Find out you aren't really compatible 7-Fall out of love, distract yourself with activities 8-You know the rest
Eyes are opening and looking inside myself. Looking at the last 18 years through different eyes. I think I have validated myself through the acceptance of others, including W.
She may have been standing for me for years. I told her after BD that this was a wake up call for me. I had no idea I was going this deep.
Both 40 T-22 M-18 S13 S11
Bomb, ILYBINILWY-7/10/13 EA #1-confirmed 7/10/13, ongoing since 5/13 EA #2-9/13/13
I told her after BD that this was a wake up call for me. I had no idea I was going this deep.
I just love it when people choose the "red pill"... And good for you on your choice, it will be a tough roe to hoe, but you will NOT regret it.
I have come to be grateful for my W's mlc, regardless of the outcome.
I have "me" back, with a whole catalog of improvements and accessories, wish I could have gotten these in another way, but I wouldn't necessarily trade this experience for an easier one, if such a thing were possible...
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Mach and I go back a long way. So, here's the inside scoop. He is going to hit you with something. It may be kinda cryptic. But, you are going to have to dig in real deep.
This is tough stuff, but, I can see what you are made of.
This is a journey you were meant to go on. Believe it. I promise you will not regret it, if you do the work.
I've never met a challenge I wasn't up to. I may surprise you. I'll buckle up and return my tray to the upright position. I'm sure there will be major turbulence ahead.
Regards, JF
Both 40 T-22 M-18 S13 S11
Bomb, ILYBINILWY-7/10/13 EA #1-confirmed 7/10/13, ongoing since 5/13 EA #2-9/13/13
