Here I Am Again!

[2ndTimeHurt]

That's tough man. It's like no matter what you do you will be labeled controlling. I have found it next to impossible to change someone's perception of you.

If it were me I'd try to hash it out with a counselor. There could be a number of factors that make meeting in the middle difficult for your w. Resentment is a huge one. Do you think your w suffers from anything? Mental, emotional, physical?

I've been labeled controlling and jealous by my ex yet my counselor doesn't think so. It is so damn hard to remove that perception. In your case your d's upbringing is at stake. That's tough man. I'm sorry I can't offer better advice.

[planet]

If you want your D to grow up a better person, you better stand firm.

I know it's a struggle. I too have that problem with XW.

Do what our hearts tells us. Can't be too wrong if it is.

[Lostforwords]

MMG,

On your daughter's behavior I will share a few thoughts from my experiences. I know three people very well with ADHD....One is my ex-brother in law, one is my son (with aspergers mixed in...yeah), and the third is myself.

Like you....I did the logs, etc with my son. Pretty much everything the doc's told me to do and subsequently was called a controlling j#rk by the EX. I could also see that was I was doing was not working at all....actually seemed to make things worse. So then I did the proactive things and talked with my parents and my ex's parent about how the dealt with it. My Ex-FIL continued the very controlling behavior with fights, arguments,tight schedules, etc....for years. Now currently my ex-BIL lives in a car, can't hold a job or relationship, and basically blames the world for everything that is wrong in his life. Now my parents went the opposite way.....In a way they gave up. Around 11 they gave up punishment, arguing, and basically anything that controlled me. My mother told me it was like a light changed inside me....she would just discuss positively what I did/didn't do and the consequences in life and then move on....and then I would find my own path free of stress. Now I ended up with Physics degree, professional license, and overall a pretty good moral person.

So I have since employed the same with my son....arguments are now very few, chores get done without me having to saw a thing, he is off his med's, and life is way easier for both of us. We talk a lot about his life....and I listen. Sometimes I offer different ways of going about things, but more often then not I just listen.

Now those are just my experiences.....so take it at that as I am not a therapist.

"I feel things got worse between us when you started getting coaching/counseling."- Therapy is hard...facing your inner demons is hard....and usually things have to get worse before they get better

When you talk to me, you make me feel like I'm talking to a psychologist.- Very common saying when a husband switches from listening to hearing. Positive and good communication skills sound like therapy.....Why you ask? Because it is strange for a person who is used to just being listened to....to be heard. It is a change from the day to day life most of us encounter.

You spend lots of time trying to figure out how to word things.-Think first, then talk...Once again, she is not used to this type of behavior.

I am NOT having an MLC.- Why did you even bring this up to her LOL....never, Never, Never mention MLC to a walk away spouse...It is like telling an alcoholic they are an alcoholic. They need to discover this on their own.

I don't know you anymore.- Because you are working on changing.

You just want to control me.- This one is tough, but you are working on it. Control is a subtle beast....and comes in so many forms. Starting with the kids is a good exercise....when you ask them to do something.....do you ask or do you tell? There is a difference.

[Missmygirl]

Thanks for the replies. It always helps to get perspective from people outside and far removed from my problems.

L4W,

I especially appreciate your response because you have lived it. I am a very structured person by nature. My daughter isn't. When I offer solutions and meet her obstinance, I am irritated by it. I know that affects my response. I do my best to remind myself to hear her side. I then expect her to comply with whatever decision I make. If she cooperates, things go smoothly. If she doesn't, then I start punishing her by taking away privileges.

After reading your post Nd talking with a very close friend who is not like me at all, I have decided to change my approach and see if it works. I'm going to stick to the concept of "what are we trying to accomplish here?" That means I wont try to control the steps to get her there, but I will steer her through the process to ensure she actually arrives at the desired destination.

In addition, I am going to go in for counseling on how I can best deal with her. I'm sure I can learn more. I will schedule myself with a counselor who has seen my daughter and knows her. She deals with kids who struggle with ADHD.

Hopefully, I will have some good news to report here regarding my interactions with K.

[Lostforwords]

Mmg,

That is a good approach....as well as determining what is really important and what is not. You need to pick your battles very carefully....Like say her bedroom. Is it the end of the world if it isn't as clean as YOU want it? First, she isn't you....she is her own little person. But beyond that, is it super important to the existence of our world that her room is in perfect condition....not really.

Now a battle I have with my son, one almost every 14 year old boy has apparently and his condition makes it worse, is bathing everyday. Now this was a battle I had to fight as he would smell down right raunchy lol. We fought over bathing every day and it would get pretty bad....so I redid my expectations a few months ago. If I could get him to shower once a week I was happy....Now I having him shower 2-3 times a week. Is it perfect...not close in MY mind, but it is better than before and HE feels comfortable with it.

I read once that we try to make children behave as WE do, but the irony is that they are THEM not us. They are truly separate individuals.....Much like on these forums, THEY have multiple paths to follow and ours is to help guide them down a good path and not pull them down that path.

Also remember that it is this individuality that makes each child unique...In my house I have to handle each child different. With my daughter, as planet said, I have to be firm....with my son (it is proven that ADHD kids do not respond to firmness) I have to strive more to be consistent. Have you ever asked her what would work for her? A token economy, allowance, earn a toy, field trips with dad, or just a hug...all of these can motivate an ADHD child a lot more than just ordering them around...

It is always easier to attract bee's with honey....Know what I am saying?

[Missmygirl]

We have tried the token economies. They work... for a while. Until the novelty wears off, which for an ADHD person is pretty quickly. Then it's off to try to find something else to capture her attention. It's pretty exhausting and at times seems like a total waste of our time.

I'll try this new approach and see how it goes. Probably will be 3-6 months before I can definitively say whether or not it is effective.

[Missmygirl]

An appropriate song about the destination we are all striving to reach:

I'm Not Who I Was by Brandon Heath

[melissag]

Hi MMG, thanks for stopping in on my thread. Just spent a little time catching up on your sitch.

I listened to the song you mentioned - have never heard of Brandon Heath before but love his voice and that's a great song.

I guess if I think "I'm not who I was," I would think of it less as "I have changed and am different now" and more as, "I wasn't being who I really am, but I'm back." Or maybe that's the point . . .

[Missmygirl]

Haven't posted here in a while, so figured I'd drop in and update you on my situation.

I had decided a while ago to take a different tack in trying to get my relationship with E moving in the right direction. So far, it seems to be working. Instead of confronting her when things bother me, I will talk about it with a very close friend. That way, I get it off my chest and I often find that I feel better about it and it doesn't lead me to sabotage my efforts.

The reason I have adopted this approach is that E can't deal with confrontations. When we disagree or have a quarrel, she shuts down emotionally. She loses hope that we will remain together. I have been having to learn how to communicate with her without hurting her or raising her fears and causing her "flight" behavior to kick in.

E seems to be warming to me. Very slowly.

I find her behavior very puzzling at times, though. She will have days when she seems emotionally closer to me. She'll sit and watch TV with me or go to couples massages with me. We've been skiing together, as well. Then there's days when it seems like she's trying to push me away. She'll be distant and not talk. She'll fill our house with music that she knows I don't like, such as Linkin' Park or some other group where the lead singer is literally screaming something negative about life or love or whatever it was that was bothering them the day they came up with their new tune.

When this happens, I leave and go to the gym, the coffee shop, or some other place. Funny thing is, she gets upset with me when I do this. She will tell me that I am leaving her to do all the housework or that I am just doing my own thing. It's like she feels like I'm the one who is disconnected or trying to get away from being married to her. She's even cried and told me that she feels I don't like her.

Today, she seemed to be having a bad day. Before, I would have saddled myself with the responsibility of her happiness. I don't do that anymore. If she's being testy, I get away from her until I can bring myself around to the point of understanding her feelings and supporting her. I may not always support her behavior or her point of view, but I CAN always support HER. It's not always easy, but I can get there eventually if I keep my focus off of how I feel and if I remain detached from it all.

I guess I really have been selfish all these years while we've been married. I have always looked at things from the perspective of how it affects me. I do it still. It's something I am trying to change. It's OK to look at how I am affected, but I have needed to look at things from a perspective of looking out for her well being as well. I had never done that before.

Today, I asked her what was bothering her. She told me she felt I was going back to how I used to be. I don't think I am, but I reassured her that I understood what she was saying and why she could feel that way. I assured her that it wouldn't happen. I then made sure that she saw me follow my words with action. When you read here how the spouse is afraid that you won't change and stay changed, that is the absolute truth. I am hearing it with my own ears. My job is to continue to prove that my changes are permanent. I am convinced that I will have to prove that to her the rest of my life.

I am absolutely certain that E is going through a midlife transition. It's been a crisis for us both at times. Who knows... maybe I've been going through the same. It doesn't matter what we call it. It's been happening. My job is to deal with it.

She just left to go out with her girlfriends for the evening again. She hasn't been out with them for a while. This time she wasn't dressed as alluring as she has in the past. That was nice to see. I still don't like them going out to the dance clubs, but I will not say anything. She knows I don't like it. I would only be nagging.

Before she left, she kissed me (something she hasn't done in a while) and told me not to wait up for her. I won't. I'll take a sleeping pill and sleep like a rock.

I like to read books by Max Lucado. I find his writings to be very encouraging. Here's something I recently read that was penned by him. I think it applies to all of us here.

The Survivor’s Creed

You’ll get through this.

It won’t be painless. It won’t be quick.

But God will use this mess for good.

Don’t be foolish or naive.

But don’t despair either.

With God’s help, you will get through this.


I hope all of you have a great weekend and that you see improvements in the relationship you have with your spouse.

[Missmygirl]

It's been another month and I'm still seeing slow improvements in things between my wife and I. Without getting bogged down in the details, I'll post some of what I have experienced.

My last post spoke of E headed out to spend time with her friends. I didn't ask her about anything at all. She ended up sending me a text while she was out. That hasn't happened in a very long time. She used to just disappear and I wouldn't hear from her until she returned just prior to or after sun up. That night, she was in our bed at 1:45. A very big change.

E doesn't pull away when I touch her. In fact, she'll let me run my fingers though her hair or massage her shoulders. She's even started holding my hand again at times. She's taken to wearing her wedding band again. I think I've seen her without it only once this month. I made certain that I never mentioned anything about it.

We make plans together, such as home improvement projects or family vacations. She even talks of things such as where we will live when I finally retire. All of her "future talk" contains scenarios where we are still together.

Sometimes I'll ask her out to lunch. When I do, I make sure to word my invitation like I used to before we were married when I would ask her out on a date. She seems to like that. I think it really communicates to her that I do not take her for granted and that I look at it as a privilege to ask her out. It's a statement to her that I highly value her. It's also giving her room to say "no". She isn't expected to do things with me. It's her choice as an independent woman to accept or decline.

We don't always agree on everything, but I am very careful to not let our disagreements develop into arguments. That seems to be helping as well. She doesn't seem pessimistic about us now.

One thing I have been struggling with lately, though is my feeling that she should apologize for what she did. I have made many apologies for my past actions and attitudes. However, she has never made an apology to me for her actions which hurt me. I need to figure out how to handle this within myself. I have been telling myself that forgiveness is a choice. Maybe I will have to choose over and over to forgive her for whatever I feel she did that was wrong. I really don't know. I DO know that if I focus on my perception that I was wronged, that will cause me to become angry or bitter or resentful. It certainly wouldn't be good.

I'm beginning to think we may be getting into the piecing stage. I'm trying to keep myself grounded. Have hope without expectations. Taking one day at a time. The good days are definitely out numbering the bad. I would like for us both to get counseling or take a class or course that would help us both build our marriage and help us safeguard it from the problems we have encountered. I haven't brought this up. I am certain it is way too soon to do this. I feel it will almost have to be her idea in order for her to get anything positive out of it.

You'll see in my signature that I end with a ? And that's because I haven't checked up on her in a LONG time. Part of me thinks this is good. The other part of me thinks this is naïveté. At times I want to dig. I haven't. I know this is a result of the damage done to the trust in our relationship. I'm not sure how long it will take for me to trust her again. Sometimes I wonder if I ever will. I think it's related to her not making any apologies. If anyone has some insight into this, please help me out here.

Overall, things are much better. I don't think we are out of the woods yet, but I don't think we are on the brink of divorce anymore. However, I know that we both don't want to just be married to someone, we both want to be married to our best friend. That BF is a person who loves us as we are and is someone in whom we have complete confidence. We feel safe with them. We each haven't made it to that point yet.