Barrybran IV - Three Years Forward, 30 Years Back

[Barrybran]

Here's a link to my previous thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2428512&page=1

B,

Remember the talks we had about TRULY looking in the mirror...evaluating yourself....Making positive changes. A lot of these changes you have actually fought or found ways to support not changing because they are who you are.

Now what do you think about what we were discussing? I suggest relooking in the mirror my friend. I will tell you two secrets about the self reflection mirror....One is that the bad stuff is most evident when you are the most broken. You do need to address it though and not ignore it or say "It is who I am". Go reread 25's post to recruit...another excellent post.

Secret two....What is in the mirror is not permanent....It is who you are at the moment and you can change.

I am not going to reiterate what 25 said, as she nailed it. I do ask you reread Recruits thread again....See what happens when you make slight changes and give lip service to addressing yourself first. You make changes for you B....YOU.

As for 5LL, I like the excerpts I have read. My question is why are you reading it now? Think about that...IMHO it isn't the next book you should read, but I will let you figure out why I say that.

B, I believe there is a whole stronger, more secure, more loving, and better man in you....But you have to see that and WANT to strive for it...The choice is yours.

For sure, I'd love to change. Last night was a shock to the system because I thought I was giving my wife space and testing the waters and in a split second I'm looking deeper and addressing a 30-year-old problem. My guess would be that you're referring to me picking up Way of the Superior Man next. I have that and 5LL waiting for me. I'm going to finish DR because I've made it just under half way, I'm curious to read more about the WAS and infidelity sections and in general, I like to finish things I start. I should mention here that while I may procrastinate like crazy, once I do start something meaningful it bugs me not finishing it.

I've got a lot of rereading to do it seems.

[Lostforwords]

What I am asking is why you are next reading a pure relationship focused book instead of a self improvement book? I feel 5LL is putting the cart in front of the horse at the moment.

[Barrybran]

I ordered it at the same time as DB and DR. At the time I wanted to know how to speak my wife's language and it's been in the queue ever since I bought it. I don't really know what any of these books are about until I read them so I was going to go through all of them and gain as much info as I can from all of them. It'll probably take another week or two to finish DR so I'm happy to take suggestions on which order I read the books, any articles/youtube clips I may find interesting or even other books to order.

[25yearsmlc]

What I am asking is why you are next reading a pure relationship focused book instead of a self improvement book? I feel 5LL is putting the cart in front of the horse at the moment.

Not to quibble with this^^, b/c I agree with it, but let me toss in 2 thoughts. First, finish Div Remedy. That book forms the basis of this site's approach. Otherwise, half the advice you get here will not be properly taken in. You won't "get it" until you are more familiar with some concepts of DBing, many of which can feel counter intuitive at times.

You have to read this first b/c it's all about what to do NOW in your m.

The reason for reading 5 LL's now, is b/c I don't think you are aware of how your w receives what you "send" her.

And I thought that book would help you. But I don't care what order you read them in (except finish the DB book first)

I also think perhaps watching Shawn Achor's TED TALK on positive psychology might help you IF you aim that new paradigm at other people. (So you can see them in a more positive light.) Instead of presuming their mental inferiority & commenting on it, you can learn to see their value, their individual gifts, and something admirable in them.

In "How to Win Friends & Influence People", Dale Carnegie writes that "every person you meet in life can teach you something." I balked a bit the first time I read that, literalist that I am.

But our neighbor's son had Downs syndrome. The very first thought that came to mind was "Well wait a second, what can HE teach ME??"

Boy was I wrong. That neighbor was one of the kindest, most consistently cheerful optimistic person I've ever met. He felt joy far more often than I did. When I pondered that, I felt ashamed and amazed all at once. Carnegie was right & I was wrong.

You don't need to denigrate someone to level the field, you need to uplift yourself.

And if you think of your life and changes and imagine them on a chart or graph that marks where you were headed in life,

and compares it to where you'll be with these changes. Then you can see that small tweaks & incremental changes,

OVER TIME

bring you to a very different place than your previous course would have led you.

Hope this^^ makes sense.

STAY BRAVE. Of all the people here who DO reconcile,

as far as I can recall, each & every one of them had an LBSer who did some serious internal work.

You might have thought "how odd, what about the WAS & their work??"

But the discovery I made on this site is that usually, it's the LBSers changes that trigger changes in the relationship, and that leads to the WASs taking a second look, especially if there are children.

Let go of what you cannot control, and get a good grip on what you can, and begin the changes you want to begin.

Good luck!

[Barrybran]

It's too hard to quote on a phone but I agree with the part about my wife not receiving what I'm sending the same way I intend to send it. I understand now that if my wife feels that I come off differently to how I perceive myself then it's fair to say that most people probably see me differently to how I see myself too.

I noticed something quite interesting today. I was at work taking orders and I found myself repeatedly asking for the same orders. In other words, I caught myself not listening. This is all part of why I was so surprised by what my wife told me. I thought I was becoming a better listener but I really wasn't. That disappoints me but I'm not going to beat myself up over it because I feel as though I'm better equipped to handle criticms of myself and learn how to rectify them than I was three months ago.

[Barrybran]

I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on an issue for me. I'm a homebody. I have no friends in the town I live in and it's too far and costly to see my friends on the other side of the country. There is very little to do in my town and none of it I'm interested in. I want to play a certain sport this year but it's not going to be feasible without giving up significant money and/or time with the kids. Lostforwords has challenged me and I've learned that I can live my own life within my home and feel comfortable with it. Of course, I still need something on the outside but I've found things to do at home.

One thing I would love to do is to go to Melbourne to watch some football games. I LOVE Australian Rules football and I used to go to Melbourne annually when I was single. Melbourne is 12 hours drive from where I live and to get there by plane would mean a two hour car ride and two one hour flights. It's a trek to say the least. It would also be quite costly. I would love to go and watch my team play in the nearest major centres but the closest they play is 8 hours away in July. I'm very much a take-it-as-it-comes person. Watching football is really the only thing I want to do.

My wife has expressed a desire to get a new car and I can't say I disagree with her. The one she wants it quite costly but it will be worth it given the history I've had with my car (less mechanical issues, etc.). We can afford a new car but I would have to put off any substantial GAL activities. As important as it is to do things that make me happy, I'm not going to screw my family over to do so.

Katy Perry is coming to Sydney, 6 hours from my home, in March and my wife posted on Facebook that she'd like to go. She's never mentioned it to me and I understand it's all part of the WAS process; living their life without consequence to the family. Honestly, it does bug me that she is considering going when she refused several times to travel two hours out of town for an evening with me (again, nothing to do here). On the DB front however, I'm very OK with it. I understand the situation.

I'm conflicted because I feel I'm doing the right thing by putting off the only thing I want to do because of cost while she'll be taking money out of our family income to pursue her activities. Does anyone have any thoughts/experience on how they have/would handle this?

[Lostforwords]

B,

Remember we said this is a long walk.....Changes take time and HARD work my friend. Realizing that you weren't listening and hearing is a victory in itself. For me, I knew I had a communication issue from my employees long before the wife said something (8 years ago) and I work on it to this day. Even right down to how I communicate with the kids. See DB helps with many parts of your life.

Dude....Katy Perry in Concert....You need to beg to go watch that LOL.

As for the car....With kids, a dependable car is a necessity. At the same time, you just started a new job. So maybe wait a month and see how the new job is still going. You have mentioned things are tight....So see how things change financially over the next few weeks. See where I am going?

I will let you chew on this....One thing I learned from DB is that I was a slave to money. My life revolved a lot around making money and paying bills. Now I have changed my mentality about money....I respect it, but I do not live in fear of spending it. I budget wisely, but do not fear doing the things I want.

Think on that.

[Barrybran]

Lol at the Katy Perry comment. The fact she posted it on Facebook was a definite "don't you dare ask me" type of deal. Mind reading, I know, but my wife has gone colder on me the past two days so I know where I stand with that one :-)

I must admit, I do have money at the forefront of my mind most of the time. It's not healthy but I am proud of what I've been able to do with regards to saving over the years. My wife and I still have separate accounts. We never got around to joining them and I made it work in my favour because my wife isn't a saver and I am. The car is a good 2-6 months away but I need to save in order to bring the loan amount down. I also have my brother's wedding to save for in 12 months time. I am copping a LOT of criticism about my attitude towards my brother's wedding because I'm looking at the money side of things (3k for flights, plus accommodation, plus rental car, plus food and entertainment) while my wife and parents have the attitude that "we'll be right". I guess the way I would describe myself with money is more responsible than obsessed but I know my family would describe me the other way round. I have runs on the board and they don't though. As per DB mantra, do what works so I'm sticking to MY plan when it comes to money.

I'll think about it but I'm not sure it'll help. I often open up a spreadsheet to cost things I'm interested in and I'll probably have a go at one for a potential footy trip (I may have mapped out when my team plays in Melbourne already :p) but I know the costs already; a couple hundred for fuel or slightly higher for flights, another couple of hundred for accommodation and then food and spending. You're looking at $750-1k just for a one-man long-weekend trip and that to me seems irresponsible when you've got a family. Even my wife going to a concert would mean a good $300-400 and that's assuming she doesn't find the shopping centres!

As I said in the previous post, I want to be able to do these things, I want to feel comfortable with my wife doing these things but I do hold very strong values regarding money and responsibility. I just don't want to be seen as a stick in the mud for being a grown up.

[Barrybran]

Journaling:

Well my morning is off to a fantastic start. Last night, as I was going to bed my Dad tells me that Mum saw my wife go into my daughter's room to sleep. She's been cold to me since our listening incident so I understand. I didn't even see my wife go into that bedroom and I let my Dad know that and play it down. I head off to bed and low and behold, my wife is there in our bed.

This morning, I slept in. It was great. I've been waking up at 5:30am for work, no later than 7am for kids and this morning, with no work or kids, I was able to lay in bed until 9am. I could hear my wife playing Donkey Kong in the living room so I enjoyed the peace and let her enjoy hers. My wife headed out and my Mum comes out and asks if I'll be alright when they're gone as I'll have no support network. Whilst this is true in person, I've received more support from everyone here than I have my own parents.

They're old school and think my wife is being a b!tch because she's doing her own thing without consideration for the family and I. I understand their point of view. They've been married 30 years and my Dad has been emotionally abusive (see a theme? :-( ) the whole time to the point I feel my Mum has Stockholm syndrome. Basically, everything in the world has to be my Dad's way or it's not right and Mum follows his lead. Ever since I started with DB, I've done the opposite of what they've suggested and that lead to the good period between my wife and I. The only reason it went backwards is because she thought she was doing all the work and I didn't know how to handle it.

Mum and Dad were supposed to be gone already. I asked them to leave, they know my wife and I want them out and they keep making comments that try and guilt us. It's not working. They have a motorhome that my Dad has converted himself from a 22-seater bus. He's done a great job. He doesn't know everything though and he's had some trouble getting power back into it. That's fine, things happen and whilst it's an inconvenience to my wife and I, we understand that they have limited money and knowledge and they are trying. But boy are they also psychologically trying.

My wife is going to a ball tonight and I don't expect to see much of her this weekend to be honest. She spent large chunks of time away from the house the last time she was upset with my parents and I so I know what to expect (I know, expect nothing). Basically, I feel I have a pretty good handle on my situation despite it being in negative territory at the moment.

[Lostforwords]

B,

I hate to say this as I know you love your parents, but I think the root of your issues lay there. You grew up with a male role model who was condescending, controlling, always right, not open to compromise, and that has carried over to you. Hence it explains your wife's comments a few nights ago, the "Sheldon" thing, and the money obsession. I suggest you REALLY think about dad....I mean REALLY think about him. How he treats the world, people around, his values and principles....and how you often portray those same things. Think about it.

Case in point....You and I discussed money the other day. I do agree with others that you seem to be beyond prudent and much more on the obsessive side. Now all this is about you, but here is what I read in your post.

"My way is right, I am not going to think about any other way of doing things, and I will not compromise".

Now put those two things together....and this talk isn't about money. It is how you come across....how you think about things.

Mirror time buddy....and the question for it. Do you want to come across to people (not just the wife) like your dad?