hope456--my story

[hope456]

Hi, all. I’ve been reading this site and following several threads for several months now, but finally built up the confidence to post my own story. While going through a very trying time, it has been uplifting to me to watch how so many others have handled their own struggles with dignity and grace and I’m glad there’s a community like this one out there.

I am 32 and my H is 35. We have a beautiful D7. We’ve been married for 11 years and together for 14. BD was 10/25/13. I returned home from a week-long business trip and my H asked to talk to me after we tucked D7 in. My heart instantly dropped because I knew what was coming (more on that in a bit). I got the ILYB speech. He feels trapped, isn’t happy, and has tried everything. At first he said he didn’t know if he wanted a D, but when I asked the question second time, he said that he did. He feels that we aren’t compatible and are more like roommates. He emphasized that I am a great mother and a great woman and this isn’t about me at all. Just a few of the things he said that confused the heck out of me:

• He needs to do this so he can be happy and be a better father.
• He is still sexually attracted to me.
• He’s been trying for a long time to make things work.
• He wants 50/50 custody. I’ve been the primary caregiver of our D since day one.
• He wanted to stay together through the holidays and move out in January.
• I’m his best friend and he never wants to lose that.

Like many others, I did all the wrong things--cried, argued, reasoned, etc. At some point in time during that first week or so, I was attempting to reason with him and had what I thought was a breakthrough. He said that he thought we might end up together again someday, but now wasn’t the right time. I asked why he thought we had to get D for this to happen. I couldn’t fathom why he needed to put me and D7, and himself, through all that unnecessary pain if he could already see the possibility that we would end up together anyway. He said that D would be like a reset. I asked him to consider another possibility: that we would still separate and work on ourselves, but we would readdress and see if the “reset” could be restating our vows and making a new M and leaving the old one behind without going through with a D. He agreed to think about it. He said he would give that possibility at least as much thought as he put into D.

After all that, I found this forum and DR. I’ve since read both DB and DR and recognize that I did a lot of the wrong things at first. Since then, I’ll go through a period of a couple weeks where I don’t bring anything up and then I’ll take a huge step back. I’ll bring up R talk. That’s one of the huge things I need to work on.

Through some of our conversations, I’ve gotten insight into some of his complaints. A big one for him was that I wasn’t supportive enough. I acknowledge that this was definitely true, so I’m working on 180’s on this when the opportunity arises. Another was that we aren’t interested in the same things. While a lot of that is rewriting of history, there is some truth in it, too. So, after BD when he would ask me to try some new food or watch some movie he was interested in, I would give it an actual chance instead of being immediately dismissive.

He began IC in November at my urging, but has continued to go with no prompting from me. He moved out the first weekend of January. We’ve had two date nights and several family days since then and he always calls or texts me afterward to tell me what a great time he had with me. Still, if R talk comes up, he tells me that his feelings haven’t changed, but he’s still thinking. I get so angry about what this is doing to our D7 and have lashed out at him (telling him this is a selfish decision and things of that nature).

This is getting a pretty long, so I’ll just fill you all in on some important history. My H and I were separated once before. When our D7 was an infant, my H also said ILYB to me. After several months of IC for each of us and MC for us together, he said we needed to separate. After a two month separation, he said it was a huge mistake and of course he loved me and he had realized what was really important. Stupidly (in hindsight), we stopped going to MC and IC at that point, so we never really dealt with the issues. Additionally, after reconciliation, I was never as open or vulnerable as I had been previously. I always felt like I was holding back to avoid getting hurt again. This time around, I had felt that H was pulling away and had asked him about it multiple times and he always assured me that everything was fine and he was just working through some things or had a lot on his mind.

I am so grateful for all the support I’ve found here even when I was just lurking and am looking forward to more. I'm relatively stubborn and have a tendency to be defensive, but I need to have my thinking challenged and help seeing other perspectives.

[hope456]

Brief update...

Yesterday, I had a major setback. Our D7 has always been an excellent student, but has recently started getting slightly lower grades. I called my H to talk about it. He and I agreed about some things we need to do to help her and decided that I would schedule a conference with her teacher. I guess he could tell that I was holding back. Something like the following conversation ensued:

H: is there anything else you want to say?
Me: No.
H: It seems like there is.
Me: Nope.
H: You think this is because of the separation, don't you?
Me: There isn't a doubt in my mind that the separation is the reason.
H: I disagree.

From there, the conversation became increasingly negative, with me telling him that he was selfish and putting his own desires in front of our D7's wellbeing. I also said something about him living in a fantasy land where this had no negative consequences on our D7 and he somehow still gets to be a good guy in the story he tells himself.

Later in the day, he told me that he had done a lot of thinking and decided he definitely wanted a D. I reacted terribly--screaming, insulting, etc. At some point during the call, he said we were both reacting from a place of emotion and that he wanted to pretend the conversation never happened. He wants more time to think before deciding.

I feel as though there is no chance of R and am finding it increasingly difficult to remain hopeful. I need to work harder on GAL so that I can be more consistent with PMA.

[KGirl]

hope, your H and mine must be reading the same script - I've heard all those same things: we're not compatible, like roommates, H thinking we need to D so that he can realize what he's missing and then get back together (like you said, why go through all the pain and suffering then??), not being supportive enough, not having the same interests, having a previous separation but not getting at the underlying issues, H saying feelings haven't changed despite hanging out together and having a good time, still thinks we can be friends... ugh. It sounds like you know what you need to do, but just need to remind yourself/keep practicing putting it into action. It's hard, but I've personally found that getting those negative results make it easier for me to take a step back and not take conversations in that direction.

Besides avoiding pursuing and R talk, what else are you working on for you? What kinds of GAL things are you thinking of?

[hope456]

Kgirl,

Thank you for your response. While I wouldn't wish this experience on anyone, it helps to know that I'm not alone in this strange place that frequently feels like the Twilight Zone. I'm struck by the similarities shared by so many of the stories on this forum.

I think you're right: I do cognitively understand what I need to do. I get that it is counter-intuitive. I just have a hard time overcoming my instinct to react from an emotional place. Until yesterday, I had actually done really well for two weeks or so. I hadn't mentioned anything and had a great PMA. Then I made the mistake of stepping back onto the roller coaster. Ugh...

I'm trying to identify the things I don't like about myself and work on changing them. I'm working on become a better listener. I think there is a very good chance that my husband didn't actually feel like I heard what he was saying to me a lot of the time.

A lot of my GAL involves my D7. She's so much fun and I love being with her. She and I bake together, walk to the lake to feed the ducks, take trips to the zoo, go to the park, etc. My sister and I are very close and live only a few minutes apart, so she's been a great support for me. I've started going back to church. I hadn't gone for several years and I really missed it. When my D7 is with H, I meet friends for drinks and/or dinner. I have been catching up on lots of books that I had been meaning to read. I also clean to relieve stress, so my floors have never been cleaner

[hope456]

One of the things that both H and I have done since BD is take the 5LL quiz. He took it because I asked him to, not because he's certain he wants to work on things. My primary LL is physical touch, followed closely by quality time. H's is words of affirmation. His second LL is also quality time. I'm working on not pursuing, but also trying to use his LL, words of affirmation, some. Frankly, it's something I s*ck at. I have found several opportunities to casually make positive remarks on something he's done with D7. I felt this was a good step because it is one of the area's that I've definitely been overly critical of in the past. Any other tips on using words of affirmation with an H who has moved out?

[lovethehub]

I feel as though there is no chance of R and am finding it increasingly difficult to remain hopeful. I need to work harder on GAL so that I can be more consistent with PMA.

Please don't give up. Your H sounds like he isn't 100% certain. Last year, my H and I were 'definitely over' after several emotional separations, an A on my part and many years of problems. He didn't want anything to do with our M and we were only living together because I wasn't working so neither of us could move out. I found this site and began looking at myself and my part in the breakdown of our M. I started journaling and really began to understand things better. Our M turned around and we are doing well today...it definitely took forcing myself to stop talking about our R no matter what - I truly don't think we would be together today if I hadn't given him his space. When I was upset, angry, whatever, I wrote down what I wanted to say to him instead of saying it. I was always smiling around him (almost an "I have a secret smile and my secret was Divorce Busting), nice, talked to him but started ending conversations and going off to do my own thing. I never texted/called him unless it was about the kids. It took almost 4 months before there was even a hint of change and then 2 more before I brought up R talk. That talk consisted of me explaining to him what I had realized to be my fault, never once justifying my behaviors (like I had in the past) and then listening to him - even when I disagreed I didn't say a word because I have come to realize that his version may not be correct in my mind but that doesn't mean it isn't his experience of the same situation.

Still, if R talk comes up, he tells me that his feelings haven’t changed, but he’s still thinking.

Do not let R talk come up. Under no circumstances do you want to bring it up because even if his feelings are starting to change, R talk will make him convince himself they aren't. If he brings it up, change the subject as quickly as you can while saying as little as possible.

I get so angry about what this is doing to our D7 and have lashed out at him (telling him this is a selfish decision and things of that nature).

Please don't say this, even though you feel it and there is a good chance it is true, he doesn't feel this way. I didn't feel that way. I had been unhappy for so many years that, at the time, I believed I was saving myself.

I’ll just fill you all in on some important history. My H and I were separated once before. When our D7 was an infant, my H also said ILYB to me. After several months of IC for each of us and MC for us together, he said we needed to separate. After a two month separation, he said it was a huge mistake and of course he loved me and he had realized what was really important. Stupidly (in hindsight), we stopped going to MC and IC at that point, so we never really dealt with the issues. Additionally, after reconciliation, I was never as open or vulnerable as I had been previously. I always felt like I was holding back to avoid getting hurt again.

This is definitely detrimental because the other person senses you are holding back and then they don't want to go all in or quit a lot easier. When things work out (always think positive!), you have to be willing to risk it all and chance being hurt again to move forward.

He emphasized that I am a great mother and a great woman and this isn’t about me at all. Just a few of the things he said that confused the heck out of me:

• He needs to do this so he can be happy and be a better father.
• He is still sexually attracted to me.
• He’s been trying for a long time to make things work.
• He wants 50/50 custody. I’ve been the primary caregiver of our D since day one.
• He wanted to stay together through the holidays and move out in January.
• I’m his best friend and he never wants to lose that.

I put the positives in bold..it is good he isn't blaming everything on you, that is harder to overcome.

I get that it is counter-intuitive. I just have a hard time overcoming my instinct to react from an emotional place.

Get that journal fast. You have to do this, it is a must in fixing this. It will also help your new M with your H. If you don't like to journal then have a friend who is willing to listen to you without judgement or advice, just to let you vent. I think the journal is better but it isn't for everyone.

Until yesterday, I had actually done really well for two weeks or so. I hadn't mentioned anything and had a great PMA. Then I made the mistake of stepping back onto the roller coaster. Ugh...

Don't beat yourself up, we all do it!

I'm working on become a better listener. I think there is a very good chance that my husband didn't actually feel like I heard what he was saying to me a lot of the time.

It's okay to tell him this but without R talk. When he drops off d and is leaving (so you don't get into any further talk) just say something like "I have been thinking about our M and my part in where we are today. I want you to know that I realize there were probably a lot of times you didn't feel heard and I am sorry for that. Have a good night"

H: is there anything else you want to say?
Me: No.
H: It seems like there is.
Me: Nope.
H: You think this is because of the separation, don't you?
Me: There isn't a doubt in my mind that the separation is the reason.
H: I disagree.

Work on your tone so he can't pick up that you are blaming him and feel that it is his fault. Of course it is from the S and he knows it is but doesn't want to face it.

H: You think this is because of the separation don't you?

You: I'm not sure what is wrong with her, I just think we can help her through it faster if we are on the same page in dealing with it.

[hope456]

lovethehub - Thank you for your very thoughtful reply and for sharing parts of your own story. I'm not giving up. I'm committed to doing whatever I need to do to give my marriage the best chance of success possible.

I'm so grateful to have found this site. I'm really trying to look at myself and what I've done that has harmed our M. Honestly, I've already noticed some things that also affect me in other relationships that I'm working on correcting.

Do not let R talk come up. Under no circumstances do you want to bring it up because even if his feelings are starting to change, R talk will make him convince himself they aren't. If he brings it up, change the subject as quickly as you can while saying as little as possible.

With regard to this, after the talk yesterday, my H told me that he wanted a couple more weeks to think about whether D is what he really wants. After a couple of weeks, he said he would talk to me again and let me know. If he decided he need more time, he would let me know that as well. Obviously, I shouldn't bring up these discussions, but do you have any advice for how to handle it if he does bring it up?

Please don't say this, even though you feel it and there is a good chance it is true, he doesn't feel this way. I didn't feel that way. I had been unhappy for so many years that, at the time, I believed I was saving myself.

He thinks the same thing. He's said basically that. He has to "do something for himself." While I do believe that it is selfish, I also know that my H does love me and our D7 and doesn't want to hurt us.

This is definitely detrimental because the other person senses you are holding back and then they don't want to go all in or quit a lot easier. When things work out (always think positive!), you have to be willing to risk it all and chance being hurt again to move forward.

Even my H keeps telling me to be positive. I get this now. If (when!) we get another chance, I think MC will be so important in helping us heal and move forward. I think my H likely did sense this. I sometimes wonder if it isn't so much that he isn't in love with me, but more that he thinks I didn't love him enough.

Get that journal fast. You have to do this, it is a must in fixing this. It will also help your new M with your H. If you don't like to journal then have a friend who is willing to listen to you without judgement or advice, just to let you vent. I think the journal is better but it isn't for everyone.

I actually started a journal before I even found this site. I just haven't been consistent in using it. I'm going to put that at the top of my to-do list. I do sometimes vent to my sister, but I also agree that the journal is better. While she supports my decision to try to save my marriage, she is very open with the fact that she would not "put up with" what my H is doing.

Work on your tone so he can't pick up that you are blaming him and feel that it is his fault. Of course it is from the S and he knows it is but doesn't want to face it.

H: You think this is because of the separation don't you?

You: I'm not sure what is wrong with her, I just think we can help her through it faster if we are on the same page in dealing with it.

I do need to work on my tone. I also need to work on my non-verbal communication. H has told me that my every thought shows in my eyes. He's made the comment multiple times. One time recently didn't have anything to do with him. We were at a restaurant with D7 and someone at a table near us started using foul language very loudly. I've been known to use some inappropriate language myself at times, but this was at a normal meal time in a family-friendly restaurant. I'm certain I didn't glare or anything obvious like that, but H immediately made the comment about my thoughts being in my eyes. This one's pretty difficult for me to overcome. My H knows me better than anyone. We've been together literally all of my adult life, so it's pretty difficult for me to fool him. Any tips on how to do this? Thanks for the suggested response for the conversation about D7. That would have been a much better way to handle it.

[hope456]

I'd appreciate some input on how to handle one of the things my H has been doing.

My H has always prided himself in being on time. He cannot stand being late. He sees it as disrespectful to others to not show up on time. I agree with all that, which is why his behavior of late has been particularly frustrating. He is very punctual when it comes to doing something for work or meeting his friends. However, he's not so punctual when it comes to commitments he's made to me. Since he moved out, there have been a couple of instances when he'll say he wants us to do something as a family, which is usually dinner at our house. He'll say that he's going to be here at X time, but then show up 10 or 15 minutes late without any explanation. When this occurs, I feel as if I'm unimportant to him. He makes sure he's on time for his other friends, but can't extend that same courtesy to his best friend. If he was just a person who was always late, I don't think it would bother me as much. As it is, I find it pretty insulting. I have said that to him. He always apologizes and says he'll do better. If it happens again, do I say something? Or just act unbothered?

[unbidden]

You've created a story in your mind that when he's late it's because he doesn't respect you. That may not be what's happening at all. Maybe he just doesn't want to be around you or maybe he feels guilty and stalls or maybe he's just late. Who cares? It is what it is. Sometimes he's now late. I wouldn't say anything to him unless by his lateness he's causing some actual harm and then state it politely as a boundary and move on. Otherwise, it's just nagging and that's not what your relationship needs. If he keeps being late YOU can choose not to wait for him. That's all that's under your control. DB is a LONG process, if you choose to die on every hill you won't make it. Save your powder for more important battles.

[hope456]

unbidden - Thanks for your input. I agree that this isn't a battle I should choose. I do struggle accepting that it's just a story in my head. I know that he sees being late as disrespectful. He's always believed that and even said something about it since BD. These things that he's late to are things that he planned, so it isn't me pursuing. I find it very confusing. Regardless, I'll choose a different battle.

This weekend is H's weekend with D7. He asked if we could all have dinner tonight. I agreed, so he said he and D7 would come to our house. The night went ok, but I had trouble keeping a PMA, which he noticed. During dinner, D7 asked if she could stay with me instead of going home with H. In the 2 months that we've been S, this is the first time she's asked to stay with a different parent than planned. I did not respond because I wanted to defer to H since it was his scheduled time. He told D7 that mommy and daddy would talk about it. H and I went out of the room. He said that it didn't bother him and he wanted her to know that it was ok to ask for what she wanted. I told him that it was fine with me as I didn't have any plans. When it was time for H to go, he gave me a hug, which is something he's done consistently upon leaving since S and asked me to walk him to the door. I did and he gave me another hug and whispered for me to stop being so sad. D7 came up and wanted a family group hug, so we did that and then H left.

A few minutes after he left, D7 asked me why H and I were hugging so much. She asked if it was because we were getting divorced. I asked her why she asked that and where she heard it. She said it was just something she read in a book. I told her that mommy and daddy were just trying to figure some things out. She persisted with asking about divorce. I said again that we were just trying to figure some things out and said we could talk about it more with Daddy if she wanted. He and I have agreed to try to have these conversations as a family. She said, "but I don't want my parents to get divorced." I said, "I know sweetheart. I don't want that to happen either." She responded, "Maybe Daddy does." I reinforced that we were just trying to figure some grown-up things out and she dropped the subject.

I sent H a text message letting him know about her question. I didn't include any commentary; I just told him what she asked. His response was:

Why would she ask that? You told her no, right?

I told him what the rest of the conversation sounded like and he said that my answer to D7 was good. I'm very confused. His first response was to make sure that I didn't tell her yes, but just two days ago he was telling me that he definitely wanted a D. Not sure how to take that...