Wife in MLC and getting ready to leave #6

[ForeverYoung]

Matt, maybe try not to take a response so personally?

I have noticed an improved acceptance, and some steps to move forward in a more healthy manner on your part. Good job!

But to be honest, you did have a bit of a reputation for playing the victim in your postings. And I know it takes a while to work through that completely. So it's understandable that someone might read it, and still call you out on it.

Just thank them and stick to your path, you're doing great!

[Matt165]

Thanks FY,
You're right. Just that sometimes it seems like I'm asked to talk about this or that and then get "called out" like I'm rehashing something or obsessing over something. I'm starting to move forward faster. I have to at this point as it's my only real choice. Seeing my W this weekend was "different". Actually couldn't wait for her to finish up and go on Sunday so I could just relax. My oldest is coming home soon and things are going to settle down to the "new normal" once she's home. I think the poor dog is taking it worse! When my D14 went to her mom's, she took her dog and it was just him and me. He's so used to having the other dogs around he couldn't understand where they were!I had to go outside with him when he went as he didn't like being alone.

Oh, well. We all are going to have to make adjustments!

[owl777]

Take one day at a time. It'll be a new normal for you and it may be a better normal. Sometimes we don't realize how much drama and chaos is going on in our lives until were separated. I know. It's taken 7 months for me and well I worked hard and have found peace and really don't want what it was if we were together. Part of this change for most of us DBing is that the change happens inside each one of us, not the S. If the S was working on him/herself then we wouldn't need to be here wondering what happened. You can make the difference by yourself. Believe many of us have done just that and are more content and can find serenity.

[Matt165]

Thanks owl!
For me the drama became "normal". It all started back when my W became depressed. I really tried to be a loving S. To be there for her through her illness. Well, as soon as she came around from the depression the MLC started and the drama just continued. It makes me wonder if the MLC isn't just a continuation of the depression or a desperate attempt by my W to stop feeling so depressed/anxious. At this point it makes no difference. I need to stop the old ways and find a new, better way for myself and my girls. Thanks for the kind words, owl!

[25yearsmlc]

Matt,

I said that You post mostly about your wife's words/actions or the marital history. I stand by that statement, even if you are or were answering someone else's questions. The point is, you still post about her and the marital history. It's not "wrong" to do that; it's just not very helpful to you.

WONKA --to answer your comment/question, you're right to say that at times I discussed MLC in a way that seemed dismissive. Even though I absolutely do believe, conceptually, that MLC's exist; I also believe the terms "MLC" are misused and over used. I say that in part b/c of MY own misuse of the term.

(Today I think of MLC as a "diagnosis of exclusion" ---like when a doctor says "it must be 'Virus X' b/c they ruled out other causes of a particular symptom"...)
and there are situations in which we simply have no rational explanation for what our partner is doing. Sometimes the only thing that makes sense, is to call what makes no sense, a "mid life crisis".


I used the term for my own h b/c His behavior and his choices were so out of character, that they blindsided me.
IMO, WE do not change our course of action if it is an MLC or a WAS

Wonka- I have looked in DB and DR, and I found zero differences in OUR responses for WAS/MLC.

But, I'm not "Invested" in that^^ statement. I'm not sure how crucial this label is to anyone.

My DB Coach was the first person to say "don't get so bogged down in whether this is an MLC or a WAH and what 'label' you stick on it, b/c you still have the same path ahead"...and I agree with that.

I need to repeat it for emphasis, I agree with that!


In our marriage, I didn't believe the man I thought my h was, could or would do what he did. Just ONE example: he always paid bills on time or even before they became due. For over 20 years, that was HIS pattern.

The year leading up his departure for "The Last Frontier" (his words) and unbeknownst to me, he stopped paying the bulk of our bills, including utilities. That was a NEW, and different behavior.

In my situation, it was absolutely a "diagnosis of exclusion" b/c I could not understand the changes in him that happened, OR why.

So to address WONKA's point --I agree such a thing as MLC exists. The term can help to "sort of" explain or at least label new, different behaviors that happen, (along with a few other "classic" signs")...

Those new, unexplainable and seemingly out of the blue-- those behaviors, are what I mean by the phrase "Mid life crisis". The timing of turning 40/50/60 can also factor in along with that, and or some major life event like losing a parent or sibling.

In YOUR CASE Matt, I think the term is moot for 2 reasons.

First - I don't think it applies to your wife's situation b/c It's NOT very new or very different behavior. Like you said, whether she was deeply depressed or is now anger fueled, the abnormal behaviors have been going on in some form, for 7 years.

You believe it was triggered by her father's re-entry into her life. That makes sense b/c of the timing & b/c he played such a big role in her childhood deficits, it's very possible that its related.

So what I read in what you have said Matt, is that your w's behavior fits a pattern of decline and distancing from you and the kids.. and now is culminating in her leaving the family home.

I can't say if that^^ is a "plot twist" for her MLC, or she's just "gotten worse" or if it's all just "Act IV" of her father's created drama,

but does it matter what label she gets?

Thanks owl!
For me the drama became "normal". It all started back when my W became depressed. I really tried to be a loving S. To be there for her through her illness. Well, as soon as she came around from the depression the MLC started and the drama just continued. It makes me wonder if the MLC isn't just a continuation of the depression or a desperate attempt by my W to stop feeling so depressed/anxious. At this point it makes no difference. I need to stop the old ways and find a new, better way for myself and my girls. Thanks for the kind words, owl!

"...at this point it makes no difference..."

BINGO!!! THAT ^^ is exactly what I'm saying.

I happen to believe that SOME people use the terms "MLC" to avoid looking in the mirror AND OR b/c they think there is a higher chance of reconciliation if it's MLC versus something else. I don't know if there is empirical data supporting that (I didn't find any) but I think the MLC term gets too much attention for the other reason, i.e. not doing our own work.

I spent a YEAR of my life calling my h's behavior an MLC and reading about it, but it never really answered the question "Why?" And it sure never gave me insight into what I needed to do for MY life!!

I will never understand why or how my h left us for a JOB in Alaska...but I still have to accept that he did.
& I still have to be responsible for my choices and behaviors and plot out my future.

I wonder if there really is a "good answer" for you Matt. As you said yourself, "what difference does it make?"

The path I needed to take was the same path I'd take, if my h were a WAH or MLCer.

I wasted a year asking "Why??" and "MLC???" - all about what my h was doing/thinking/feeling --

That is a year that slowed my own personal work down. Instead of labeling my h's behaviors as MLC or WAS, I could have spent that year on ME and MY children's growth and healing and GAL...My bitter feelings would have been processed faster and not on display so much for my kids to see...(ouch that hurts to admit, even now)

This is not an easy concept - but it IS simple (meaning, not complex).

You need not resist it so much.

If your w is a "WAW", you have to GAL, keep doing your 180s and create a new more fulfilling life for your children and yourself. You must do this. There is no healthy alternative to making yourself a happier man.


IF your w is in an MLC, you have to GAL and do 180s to create a new more fulfilling life for your children and yourself...you must do this. There is no healthy alternative to making yourself a happier man.

Same path for you. Same focus, which is YOU and your daughters...

not the past and not asking "why??" And not pointing at people who are not here to work on the marriage (i.e. your FIL or your w) b/c we offer them nothing...

Instead, figure out what traits in you exist, that YOU want to change. How YOU can become a better, happier more loving man. That's what I asked of you.
It is wonderfully clear.

That's your task in life, regardless of what is happening with your w.

And the great thing is, the pay off is the same either way; you becoming a better, happier man,

---no matter what...

[Matt165]

Hi 25,
Thank you for your thoughts. What started 7 years ago was depression. A terrible illness that 50 million Americans suffer from in any given year (and that number is rising every year). She got past that and things did get better for a couple years. There are many examples of her behaving totally out of character starting about 3 years ago. The weight loss, fear that she was going to die, going out drinking with her "new" friends (she NEVER drank before this), how she acted with the kids, fear of getting old, feeling invisable, changing her/our history, the list is long. More than just his coming back into her life, at the same time all the changes started was right after her father found out he had cancer. That was the big trigger, IMO.

You are right that it doesn't matter if it's MLC or not as the response is the same and exactly what I am doing. And no I really don't "want" it to be MLC as that is a longer process that my W would need to go through. When you have a list of things that would make what she is going through MLC and her actions match better than 90%, I believe that is a good indication that it probably is MLC. The same actions, the same words, the childhood trama, all fit that. So does the fact that most who go through MLC are or have been depressed at one time. But again, like you said, it doesn't matter that much because the response is the same.

I am doing the things that I need to do. My life is my own now and I understand what I need to do for myself and my girls. The thing that hurts the most is both of my D's are at points in their lives where the fact that my W left is making it much harder on them. My W, by deciding HER "needs" come before her kids has made it so much less likely that they can will be able to get the start in life I have worked so hard to give them up till now.

If my W isn't going through MLC then I would call what she has done over the last 3 years "crazy", and would think her suffering from a mental illness. That's how "out of character" her behavior is. Even her own mother thinks the same.

[beatrice]

Matt - does it matter if it is MLC or not? Well, yes and no. 25yrs is right, and gives great advice. However, many years down the line it is important for me in my general sense of well being and this is why.

If it is marital breakdown, then we have contributed in some way. if it is true MLC then we haven't. Doesn't mean we were perfect or that we don't need to work on ourselves

It reminds me of an interview with Patrick Stewart (Star Trek) whose father used to physically abuse his mother. When the ambulance men came they would say 'Mrs Stewart, you MUST have done something' and he said firmly 'She did nothing'

When the LBS thinks it was something they did, or could have done differently that contributed, it is a different mind set from realising that we didn't 'do' anything to invite this (except have them in our lives). It happened regardless.

In a shorter, milder crisis, there may be things that the spouse can do, but in a full blown MLC all we can do is watch from afar as our formerly loving spouse turns (all too often) into a monster. Look at Wishing. There have been many over the years. It helped me to know that it was more than a WAS, that I didn't contribute. Just my 2c

[Matt165]

Exactly Bea! Very well put. When we watch a S go from a loving caring person to a selfish, spewing monster without any real reason (in my case even my W can't come up with anything that I did "wrong" or that was hurtful) there either has to be something such as MLC or there is just no sense in the world. People who we have been with for 25 years don't just change their mind or become totally different for no reason. Time and again we see here stories of S's who go from being loving and caring to selfish and mean in very short order. If that is "normal" or how marriages just break down then I don't want any part of it! I have watched my own parents weather 55 years together with a lot more problems then I ever had in my marriage. To me, that's what normal people do. They don't blame the person that they have loved and loved them simply because they are unhappy. If my W were someone capable of doing that without something else at play, it would have come out long before 25 years together!

[Georgiabelle]

Matt,

I agree that to a certain degree it doesn't matter. However , I've seen many marriages breakdown and absolutely, out of the norm extreme bizarre behaviors do not always accompany those. I've been following along your sitch and while no MLC expert, here is my 5 cents worth.

My h has a history of depression and anxiety and has been on medication for years. Our m was not perfect. Our m was SS and lacked intimacy. While those are big things, I realized those things were actually getting better. So much so that after BD, h said the core issue was that I wasn't committed to the m(untrue), we didn't have enough joint assets (we didn't have many assets period), I forced him to have 3rd child (not true) all the way to he loved me more than him (I don't know how that is measured), I didn't trust him (absolutely false until I realized EA) all the way to he hated the way I tacos (this was said sobbing). I literally thought he was having a nervous breakdown and his parents were gravely concerned for everyone's safety. We were best friends. Prior to moving out he would readily admit this. Did our M have issues? Yes. Did I not dedicate enough time to the m? Nope. I should have focused more on that. However, I think some people are "ripe" for MLC and there is nothing to do except get out of the way. I respect everyone's opinion here even if I don't always agree. I did not "manufacture" this to make myself look better. I'm flawed and am working on things to make myself better. I could write a novel on this crazy, unbelievable insanity. As could many others here

Do I think it's "normal" for a 40 yr old man to start a relationship with someone in college who says they will rescue you after he had an epic and colossal breakdown on Twitter saying " I just want someone to love me and F me" No. Do I think it's normal to set the house alarm off and come back to someone in the shower, sobbing while banging on the door, asking what they are going to do about this? No. I don't. Do I think it's normal to slam the door in your 8 year olds face, sobbing, saying " I f$&king can't see you now " after never doing any of these types of behaviors before. No. I could go on and on. And no, these aren't typical "marital breakdown" behaviors IMHO.

I think many MLCers have always struggled with feelings of on adequacy and have very low self esteem. Sprinkle in a generally fragile mental state to and extremely sensitive person and voila-you have a person who is ripe for crisis. I do think people sometimes label their WAS a MLC when the person is really just a cheater or morally challenged person. These are just my thoughts only. Not saying they are scientific or accurate.

Again, it changes nothing. However, I do think when someone is truly in a MLC (and even my h's gf and his new 25 yr old friends say it), it's best to step out of their path and let them be. Sorry to throw up on your thread. I think you are on the right path, Matt. It gets better:)

[ForeverYoung]

Interesting topic.

To me, the BIG difference is a MLC is all about our spouse. Their regrets, fears, and search for meaning. Things we CAN'T fix.

The walk away spouse is more about our failures as a partner. Things we CAN fix.

So while our main path may be the same, MLC or WAS, there are some important differences.

From the MLC chapter in DR:

Many of the problems addressed in this marriage saving guide are somewhat less intractable and easier to resolve. Wading through a mlc is a process that simply takes time. You can't rush it. You can't bull your way through it. You just have to remind yourself constantly that they are no quick fixes. And, however long it really takes, it seems a whole lot longer.

The one thing you will have to keep in mind throughout this journey is that your husband (wife) will have to find his own answers.

Remember the chapter in DR about trying things and monitoring for at least two weeks? Yeah, toss that one right out the window if your spouse is in MLC.

With a WAS: We are trying different things and seeing what "works".
With a MLC: Nothing we do is going to work until our spouse has made it through the tunnel.

BIG difference in my mind. With a WAS I believe we have some control over our spouses perception of the M. With a spouse in crisis, we have none. They have to work through their issues, and fix themselves, before they are interested or even capable of working on the marriage. To me, this is a big difference, and DOES make some difference on how we proceed, even if the main focus is still on ourselves.

And for the record, I believe your W is in MLC, Matt. Her new sense of her mortality is the clincher. All MLC'ers fear time is running short to find fulfillment. That's why death, serious illness, or age is a common trigger. And that's why they feel the need to RUN.

Have you accepted that you cannot fix this Matt?