In the mind of a WAW who has been in an A, it seems too hard/depressing and requires too much effort for her to step back into the old M. After all, she wanted to escape it all. "Starting over" with a new person and new R is easier in her opinion. That idea fit nicely into her fantasy dreams. This is a very common feelings for a WAW. It truly depresses her to think about facing the same old problems she wanted to leave. She may even experience feelings of everything closing in on her. That is why you can't smother her or expect her to bounce back as the W you want right away.
She doesn't see your M as a new R. I mean, how does she find the energy to sustain how discouraged she must be right now? It is extremely difficult for her to see any light at the end of this dark tunnel. That's why there needs to be a plan to help guide you both as you enter into this difficult stage. Do not put it off.
She will need support and encouragement (from the right sources), and she still needs you to be strong (always). Be loving and forgiving, but do not put up with any of her BS. You will need to continue being firm in your conditions to reconcile the M, and hold firm boundaries.
I hope you will follow Starsky's scripts/advice closely b/c he is very skilled/talented in how to word these touchy issues the best way.
Last entry from previous thread
Thanks. I've been reading Starsky's advice very closely. And yours has been most helpful as well.
You describe my W's feelings very accurately. My ability in the past to set boundaries with my parents is a legitimate issue. It's not that she and I disagree about my toxic parents. We agree pretty much 100%, except that she would rather I cut them out of our lives entirely. I obviously won't do that, but I do and have taken steps to set firm boundaries and minimize their presence in our lives. She ignores two points right now (not unexpected); that while there are times I have not set good boundaries with my parents, there are times that I have, and that they have been on their best behavior for the past two years. They haven't even criticized her privately to me. They know better.
I have taken concrete steps to minimize their involvement in our Christmas this year; instead of them coming up to our house for a couple of days like normal, we're meeting at a neutral location (grandmother's house) for about half a day.
What I read from her rhetoric is that it's not enough that I set boundaries with them, but I need to prevent them from ever testing those boundaries to begin with, preferably by her not being in their presence at all. As if I can possibly predict and control another human's behavior.
In her resentment of them, she sees me as part of them, and that inevitably I will behave like them. My answer to that while I'm connected to them by blood, I'm my own person, with my own worldview, goals, dreams, and interests. I'm not destined to become my parents any more than she's going to become her mother, who is wonderful but is not much like my W.
She's afraid that we will slip back into our old marriage, and she doesn't yet trust that I want a brand new marriage as well...with her. She doesn't see that starting over with someone new might allow her to drop this baggage, but she'll just end up picking up a whole new set instead. Fantasy talking again.
I'm looking forward to getting some more guidance from Chuck on Monday as to how to handle her.
Last edited by Rzrback; 12/12/1407:38 PM.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
What I read from her rhetoric is that it's not enough that I set boundaries with them, but I need to prevent them from ever testing those boundaries to begin with, preferably by her not being in their presence at all. As if I can possibly predict and control another human's behavior.
If she doesn't like them so much, then why does she keep going to family events? IMHO, it's like she's setting herself up to be a martyr and you to take the blame. She wants you to cut them out of your life (I know that feeling, I've been guilty of that as well), she doesn't want to be around them, yet she keeps going to family events. Why?
I can't stand my in-laws. They've done alot to damage my relationship with H, and he has been unable to set boundaries with them like you have (I applaud you for that). However, I've sucked it up and done the holidays, but sent H on other trips on his own because there's only so much I can take.
This will need to be addressed in MC. And probably IC.
Last edited by Calibri; 12/12/1409:00 PM.
M:32,H 32 T:10, M5 BD/H Move Out: 9/2014 - extreme anger H Mental Illness Diagnosis: 4/15 Served D Papers: 10/15 Divorced: 11/15
What I read from her rhetoric is that it's not enough that I set boundaries with them, but I need to prevent them from ever testing those boundaries to begin with, preferably by her not being in their presence at all. As if I can possibly predict and control another human's behavior.
If she doesn't like them so much, then why does she keep going to family events? IMHO, it's like she's setting herself up to be a martyr and you to take the blame. She wants you to cut them out of your life (I know that feeling, I've been guilty of that as well), she doesn't want to be around them, yet she keeps going to family events. Why?
I can't stand my in-laws. They've done alot to damage my relationship with H, and he has been unable to set boundaries with them like you have (I applaud you for that). However, I've sucked it up and done the holidays, but sent H on other trips on his own because there's only so much I can take.
This will need to be addressed in MC. And probably IC.
She needs IC desperately, but will refuse.
She's under no obligation to do family events..in fact she was freaking out on the phone with me just now about having to do even a half-day Christmas with them.
In fact, I just came up with a way to let her off the hook for Christmas with my family.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
Sorry I've been MIA for a while as I just 'kissed' a proposal packet and hit the send button.
It will take a while for WAW to come to certain conclusions about her worldview and realize that 'yeah, those thought patterns aren't working for me any more'. It all boils down to this: do I want to be right or do I want to be happy?
As Starsky stated in previous posts, it will take many fits and starts for W to get the XOM out of her system. Right now, her windshield is foggy and she can barely see out of it. That haze is called resentments and XOM drug withdrawal. A bunch of crap for her to sort out and make sense out of them.
All of this is not a linear process. Probably will be filled with zigs and zags.
You are doing really good with being patient with this process while standing in your own truth.
Sorry I've been MIA for a while as I just 'kissed' a proposal packet and hit the send button.
It will take a while for WAW to come to certain conclusions about her worldview and realize that 'yeah, those thought patterns aren't working for me any more'. It all boils down to this: do I want to be right or do I want to be happy?
As Starsky stated in previous posts, it will take many fits and starts for W to get the XOM out of her system. Right now, her windshield is foggy and she can barely see out of it. That haze is called resentments and XOM drug withdrawal. A bunch of crap for her to sort out and make sense out of them.
All of this is not a linear process. Probably will be filled with zigs and zags.
You are doing really good with being patient with this process while standing in your own truth.
Thanks Wonka, great to hear from you again
I expected this once she cut off OM. I knew she would go to a dark place for a while. She knew it too, and I'm actually proud of her for making the decision to say goodbye anyway. This was not in response to any demand or request I made.
Of course, right now she thinks that she will feel the way she does forever. That's natural. I knew this would be one of the harder steps. One day at a time.
This is not a time for me to make her feel abandoned. I'm just walking the line of being present and strong for her without lapsing into "fix-it" or "therapist" mode.
You gotta go to the s*** to get to the good stuff, whatever that good stuff is.
Last edited by Rzrback; 12/12/1410:00 PM.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
I can identify with your W's strong feelings toward your family. I went through similar issues. I never asked my H to cut them out of his life, but there was a point that I told him I was not going over to their house as much and from then on.....my R with his mother would change.
He had slowly (ever so slowly) begin to get his eyes open just a crack, and he did not put pressure on me like he had in the past. This was a great relief factor to me, and it put me in a much better mood. Many times I would angry at his mother and it transferred over to him. So, it really helped our MR in that particular area.
My suggestion is to tell her you will not pressure her to ever go where they plan to attend, but that if she ever decides to try, she'll have your support all the way. (This is so important for her to KNOW you will back her up, and if necessary stand with her over your parents. Not something you hope to do, but just her knowing you would, if push came to solve, will give her a sense of relief.)
You know this is dead serious with her, or at least you should know it is. You will do your M a favor by giving her this gift. For me, it was like setting me free of a terrible bondage. I believe it will relieve pressure on the MR. Won't settle all problems, but this is one that is really crowding her emotions, as the holidays are getting closer.
If she doesn't want to go where they will be, let her do whatever she wants to plan for herself. You don't have to figure some way out for her. Tell your family she did not feel comfortable about it. Surely they won't ask anymore, if they are smart.
FWIW, I never completely stopped going to see my MIL. I did attend family events. Things did get better, but I never allowed her to get in my MR again. Honestly, there was a lot of damage, and after all these years it still saddens me that my H would not man up sooner. I believe our R would have been different/better without her influence, but I don't obsess over it now. When she was dying, I helped sit with her. Not out of any particular reason other than she was my H's mother and it was out of my love for him that I did it. However, there was a time that I'm not so sure I would have been able to do it. I think that is the place your W is in at this time.
Maybe in time, things will get better between her and your family, but it may take years. No pressure, no expectations, okay?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I can identify with your W's strong feelings toward your family. I went through similar issues. I never asked my H to cut them out of his life, but there was a point that I told him I was not going over to their house as much and from then on.....my R with his mother would change.
He had slowly (ever so slowly) begin to get his eyes open just a crack, and he did not put pressure on me like he had in the past. This was a great relief factor to me, and it put me in a much better mood. Many times I would angry at his mother and it transferred over to him. So, it really helped our MR in that particular area.
My suggestion is to tell her you will not pressure her to ever go where they plan to attend, but that if she ever decides to try, she'll have your support all the way. (This is so important for her to KNOW you will back her up, and if necessary stand with her over your parents. Not something you hope to do, but just her knowing you would, if push came to solve, will give her a sense of relief.)
You know this is dead serious with her, or at least you should know it is. You will do your M a favor by giving her this gift. For me, it was like setting me free of a terrible bondage. I believe it will relieve pressure on the MR. Won't settle all problems, but this is one that is really crowding her emotions, as the holidays are getting closer.
If she doesn't want to go where they will be, let her do whatever she wants to plan for herself. You don't have to figure some way out for her. Tell your family she did not feel comfortable about it. Surely they won't ask anymore, if they are smart.
FWIW, I never completely stopped going to see my MIL. I did attend family events. Things did get better, but I never allowed her to get in my MR again. Honestly, there was a lot of damage, and after all these years it still saddens me that my H would not man up sooner. I believe our R would have been different/better without her influence, but I don't obsess over it now. When she was dying, I helped sit with her. Not out of any particular reason other than she was my H's mother and it was out of my love for him that I did it. However, there was a time that I'm not so sure I would have been able to do it. I think that is the place your W is in at this time.
Maybe in time, things will get better between her and your family, but it may take years. No pressure, no expectations, okay?
Thank you Sandi,
It's amazing how much I have lost my fear of setting boundaries with my parents over the last couple of years. A big part of her trust issues with me is whether I would back her up if push came to shove. Naturally she resents me for not manning up sooner either. Her getting past that will be a big part of our M recovery.
I know a big part of it right now is that her anger at them is transferring to me. I do take her feelings about my parents very seriously. It's a huge part of our issues. Hell, I agree with her about 80% of the time.
I may make up something anyway, just because I know saying something like that "she wasn't comfortable" will open up all kinds of questions. That's the thing. They are NOT smart about staying out of our business. I trust them so little that I haven't even hinted to them about our marriage problems.
Last edited by Rzrback; 12/12/1410:07 PM.
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
I offered her the option of not going to Christmas, but she was fine with going. Alternating ok and then depression. She's extremely resentful of me, then masks it with " I'm not trying to hurt you, we just need to be honest if we're going to have a chance of fixing our problems" . geez. I know a lot of this is the withdrawal talking I'm sure, but the spew jacket I'm wearing is getting pretty smelly
Ex Rzrback Me 43 Her 44 D11, D15 T21, M19 BD 9/9/2014 Piecing
Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood
