Retreat

[Underdog]

Mary,

He likes to lay close in spooning position and I dont let him spoon me Why? I understand not wanting to do it all night - I am someone who needs space in bed. But I would certainly want to give my H some physical affection without sex that allowed him to feel close to me and that I loved him. My XH is a cuddler. I get this. So you have to compromise.

I don't keep my car clean Umm, okay. I know people who feel that when you don't keep things clean and tidy, it means you're not grateful for the asset. But I'm not going to put any weight on this one at all.

I give him short notice when I have to work late Pretty damn inconsiderate, especially if you expect him to do this. I'm starting to get this. You have an infant. How do you expect to parent together with this dynamic?

I encouraged him to play more golf, and then complained when he did Passive aggressive. Hidden contract. Confusing and disrespectful and insincere.

I complain about how he spends time away from home Sounds like you act like your needs are the only ones that matter?

I interrupt him Irritating. Condescending. Gives people the feeling they don't matter.

I get on facebook in the bed when he wants to talk Wow. So basically you're telling him that computer friends mean more than your H. Tell me why you're upset that he's called it quits?

I question him in front of others Cheapens his value and probably makes him wonder why you want him as a husband.

In general, I try to one up him and be the alpha. I am a "leader" if you will, and try to lead our family, even though I expect him to.

Mary, this sounds like you have some serious issues that need to be addressed. And now. Before you can consider reconciling, we probably need to understand what underlying issues and fears you have that would make you think that anyone would want to be married to someone who acted this way?

I'm not saying these things to wield a 2x4, but to make it clear that I wouldn't want to be married to someone (or even in a friendship with someone) who did these things to me. I wouldn't even accept these behaviors from my kids. They are all things I did when I was a nasty 15 year old to my mom, and that my now 20 year old did when she was 17. The only reason my mom put up with me (and I put up with my D20) is because I was her daughter and she knew that I'd outgrow this sullen, petulant person and morph into a more reasonable person. And you have an infant. Do you really think this is acceptable?

So please elaborate on these things because they are really telling. How would your friends describe you? And how would you like for all of them to describe you?

Betsey

[Marylov]

Thanks for the feedback. You are saying all the right things, things I really need to hear. Basically it comes down to the fact that I have put myself first, and him second. His needs came second to my preferences, and you are absolutely right, that is unacceptable.

I promise that I have done A LOT of reflecting on what changes I need to make.

What I really need from this group is advice on how to implement that changes our marriage needs, which is to put his needs FIRST, to listen to him and be the wife he needs…while detaching? While GAL? How can I do both? I know that all I can change is myself, but how can I be less selfish, while focusing on myself? I want so badly to consider him first in all things, but that is exactly what the book says not to do?

[labug]

I'm just popping in to say (and I read your thread a day or so ago and saw you were getting great support from LITB) answer all the questions the people posting to you are asking.

Dig deep.

Let go.

You've got great support here. I have nothing more to add.

[LITB]

Betsey is bringing it, and I agree with her wholeheartedly.

She is someone that I have a great deal of respect for, as I read many of her post in the midst of my madness, and she brought her crew. You are very fortunate.

Mary, you have identified some SIGNIFICANT issues that you need to address. These will come up next weekend in your retreat. Another thing to be thankful for.

Have you been interacting with your H? How are things going?

Also......

So please elaborate on these things because they are really telling. How would your friends describe you? And how would you like for all of them to describe you?

[Marylov]

I have been interacting with him some, he is still in our house and in our room. I have really tried to hold back, and just be kind and respectful without pushing it. I have stopped telling him I love him and have tried to give him some space. We are interacting basically how you would with a neighbor you don’t very well. I’ll be home around 7, okay, have a good day, etc.

My friends would describe me as opinionated, loyal, honest, smart and responsible. I have several life-long friends, I make an effort to keep people in my life and to be there for them. I think people know they can count on me to do what I say I will do, and to show up when it counts. I wish I could say they would describe me as warm, but I know I come across as judgmental. I am moody and when someone mentioned the word sullen, that can definitely be me!

I am not a nightmare, even though I know I am describing myself as such. I am actually well liked believe it or not. But the thing is that with my family, and unfortunately my husband, I take for them for granted and forget to be CONSIDERATE. I show more kindness to strangers than the people I love the most.

Thank you for your reminder about the opportunity I have at the retreat LITB. Like I have said before, I am deeply sorry for my past mistakes and am hoping the retreat will provide the lifeline needed for me to have the opportunity to CHANGE.

[Underdog]

Mary,

What I really need from this group is advice on how to implement that changes our marriage needs, which is to put his needs FIRST, to listen to him and be the wife he needs…while detaching? While GAL? How can I do both? I know that all I can change is myself, but how can I be less selfish, while focusing on myself? I want so badly to consider him first in all things, but that is exactly what the book says not to do?

I think you already have these answers. Print this thread out and answer all the questions honestly. THIS is what will give you a game plan.

Since you've behaved in a manner most of us here haven't--by this, I mean that many of us took on the mom role to the detriment of losing our individuality--your list will probably be a lot more of the 180 variety than the rest of us. For you, I think GAL will have to be for the purpose of keeping a good attitude and to use your time to do things that are joyful and reinforce your efforts. I would probably avoid activities that are what MWD calls "more of the same". In other words, behaviors that reinforce his perception that it's all about you.

So please answer the questions. I think the answers lie right there. Then you'll know where you need to focus.

The book gives general ideas of what not to do. But the basic premise of DR is to do more of what works and less of what doesn't. Experiment. Pursuit usually means a fear-based behavior, which is why it should be avoided. Detachment means acting in a manner that says to others, "I care. But you are your own person and I am mine." It requires respect. And that is something you are going to have to work really hard at achieving.

I'd also like to thank LITB for the kind words. But you should also pay attention to him--he's reconciling and a guy. He can approach this from a guy's perspective. I'm sure he could be specific about what wouldn't work for him with his W as well. He might be too much of a good cop to do that, though.

Women are typically harder on other women. I only come across that way because I've traveled this road and know the ugly behaviors that got me on this board in the first place. I say these things to you because this is going to require commitment and a level of effort to change your behaviors, beliefs and fears. You're going to have to learn a different type of motivation. Consider it doubly worthwhile, because you have an infant that you want to teach. You're in an ideal place to become the person you want others to respect and admire. And that, my dear, is the very first step on this yellow brick road.

So... answer the questions, and then I want you to list 5 things you can do to combat the things that top your list of things that can make the biggest improvement for you AS A PERSON. If you treat others the way you treat him, this is a waste of time. It's going to have to be consistent across the board. Nobody wants to be friends with that blueberry girl in Willy Wonka.

One last thing that might drive this home. Your H is a marine. 'Til he dies. Marines know pecking order. They know how to respect authority. They are taught to be a team - in it to protect their brothers and willing to pay the ultimate sacrifice. You might do well to consider yourself a new recruit. Just a thought. Semper fi.

Ok, I've got to get back to work.

List. Answer questions. Identify 5 things to work on.

I'll be back.

Betsey

[Underdog]

I really need to work, doggone it!

I have been interacting with him some, he is still in our house and in our room. I have really tried to hold back, and just be kind and respectful without pushing it. I have stopped telling him I love him and have tried to give him some space. We are interacting basically how you would with a neighbor you don’t very well. I’ll be home around 7, okay, have a good day, etc.

Good job.

am not a nightmare, even though I know I am describing myself as such. I am actually well liked believe it or not.

LOL, I'm sure you are! I think most of us here are. It's good to know that you know this.

But the thing is that with my family, and unfortunately my husband, I take for them for granted and forget to be CONSIDERATE. I show more kindness to strangers than the people I love the most.

Ahh. You've been stuck in that petulant teenager stage and never got out of it, Mary. Time to grow up! We were all this way at 16. You would do well to head over to Amazon and check out a book on empathy. I guess we can't make recommendations anymore. One pops up to the top of the pile and is a 5 star book. It is not my area of self help, so I have not read it.

I've found that people who are judgmental usually have overly critical voices in their head. What people on the outside who haven't gone to great self help lengths fail to realize is that the inner voice is way more hostile than the judging that appears on the outside. Does this describe you? I think if you can understand empathy and put it into practice, you'd find some of these thought patterns and behaviors dissipate. Unless you're a sociopath, you can learn empathy.

You may even have to ask yourself constantly, "if I were in their shoes, what would they like to hear from me?" Practice random acts of kindness. Keep a gratitude journal. It only takes a few minutes each day. Identify 3 things you are grateful for. And then thank God/the universe for your blessings. Learn how to have a grateful heart.

And when you get to the retreat, listen twice as much as you speak. No defending yourself or using the word but.

Ok, now I'm going. TTFN.

[LITB]

I'd also like to thank LITB for the kind words. But you should also pay attention to him--he's reconciling and a guy. He can approach this from a guy's perspective. I'm sure he could be specific about what wouldn't work for him with his W as well. He might be too much of a good cop to do that, though.

I got a chuckle out of this. Yeah, I wouldn't want to deal with any of the behavior that Mary described. It was a recipe for disaster.

My W was selfish in her ways too. I didn't see it as clearly before the BD, compared to when I reflected on our M/R. It certainly made me resent her, and I did consider leaving a couple of year prior to BD. That being said, she did me(us) a huge favor by putting us through our mess. It was a blessing in disguise. We both needed it.

Her changes took root way after mine. I found this board early in my sitch, and it helped me immensely.

For her, it wasn't until she hit rock bottom, early last year that she became motivated to change. The tables had turned, and I was essentially the WAS. I needed to see that her changes were genuine. So far, so good. (a condensed version)

Interesting how life humbles us, and it is those times that motivate us to change.

Mary, you are at that point now. You have a great opportunity in front of you and you are getting exceptional support. Live without regrets from this point. At the end of the day, you can become the person you want to be, in spite of the outcome of your sitch. (For the record, that will give you the best chance to save your marriage.)

[Marylov]

You are all too kind. I really do appreciate the time you are taking to give me this support. Rock bottom is right! I will do some major reflecting and hope to report on those five things soon.

[Faith20]

Just wondering how you get your H to agree to go to th retreat?