Still kicking over here. Just a thought...try to think of those teary episodes with your Ds like dropping them off at daycare...10 minutes later, those eyes are dry. Probably!
My D8 has started in with the "why can't I live here with you, Dad?" stuff. It's a heartbreaker, but I have learned that's just one more way she says "I Love You, Dad."
Shakes
Me: 43 XW: 43 T15 M14 D21, SS15, S11, D8 BD: 8/6 EA / possible PA discovered 9/29 D final 10/20
I did try and tell myself they would be over it quickly, and honestly they probably were. But it was a lot more emotional than daycare dropoffs and I felt pretty helpless - that's pretty rotten for a parent as I am sure you can commiserate. I was certainly happier than usual to see them today. STBX dropped them off with no drama. He walked them over to the car and then had the phone out when he was two steps away. Grrrr.
Did your X follow through with her wedding plans? Hope the kids are doing ok - any improvement with SS?
We cross paths on the threads of mutual friends now and then, and I'm embarassed that my first trip to your thread is to ask a favor, but here goes....would you mind stopping by the thread of AHW99? I'm a rank amateur in these matters- but her husband sounds like he has some addicitive behaviors, and if nothing else I thnk she could use a Vanilla style pep talk.
Many Thanks!
No issues Ralliced, I posted to AHW. It is a very worrying sitch indeed. Obvious addictions. There are matters that I have no experience and refer on, piecing, MLC and children mainly. Sadly addiction and abuse are areas I am starting to know too much about! That and being part of the kindergarten crew.
Cheeeeeese is another expertise of mine
Please drop by again when we have a thread party. Thank you for caring as much as you do. I am a fan!
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 04/18/1506:30 PM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
It's the start of Divorce week- barring any last minute complications, my divorce will be final sometime this week (I'm supposed to check the online system on Friday).
Truthfully- it feels kind of anti climatic. I have several well meaning friends who think I should have some sort of celebration - but honestly - I can't look at my daughters and think that this is a festive occasion.
That being said - I have a lot of hope for the future. This time in my life, with my children at home, is very precious to me - and I'm not going to let this circumstance poison it. I'm wounded and hurt, but I don't think I've crossed a line to bitter and I hope to keep it that way. He's been unusually silent for awhile. Not sure if I inadvertently offended him or if he didn't do his taxes until last week and is sulking now. Who knows. I realized that while I was briefly excited at his stated intent to find a new job which might have entailed a move closer to us and away from OW- once the dust settled - I was equally disappointed to think he might be more nearby. In a way its nice that he's so far away- although its not good for the girls. In full honesty, most of my angst right now circles around the idea of being stuck with OW in my life forever.....having her at all the girls important life events etc.
Life without STBX chugs along. There are some practical issues around the house that would be easier if he were around but we are mostly ok. I've had to become a list maker for the first time in my life to make sure everything gets covered. Added a bunch of items this morning to make sure we are ready for fire season.
I think most of us who are a LBS go through the melancholy exercise of thinking about the past and looking for clues that we missed. I keep thinking of something that happened fairly early on, certainly when we were still in the limerance phase. STBX said "You think it might be time for a new computer?" and I replied "You think so? That one isn't 2 years old yet." End of conversation. A while later he started bringing hope his "work laptop". However, when he switched jobs 6 months later the computer came home permanently and he admitted that he had secretly purchased it because he wanted a computer that he could move around to monitor his fantasy teams during football season. I asked him why he thought he had to hide it and he said it was because I told him he couldn't have one. We laughed about it a little (I sure didn't care - it was a bit of an financial indulgence - but not a major one) and I teased him for a while about his "super secret" laptop. It was such a little thing at the time, but I keep thinking about it.
I don't know if I will ever let anyone into my life again. But if I do, I want an equal. I don't mean that in a snooty class or education way. I just want someone who would actually continue the conversation and explain why he wanted the dang laptop in the first place instead of treating my generic comment like a 'no".
Sorry to hear about the stressful situation with the kids. That must have been so hard! I had to chuckle knowingly when you described the STBX texting on his phone. My ex does that too whenever he is bored or uncomfortable. I'm sure he was feeling very uncomfortable and retreated into his phoneland. Stupid!
I'm checking back in a little late to the vulnerability/trust conversation but I wanted to thank Underdog for recommending Brene Brown. Interesting!
I am in the same place with trust and vulnerability that you described. In my situation, I have twice been through LTRs that ended due to his cheating or imminent plans to cheat. The trust part was the dealbreaker for me. I am not sure that I care SO much about the actual cheating, it is the lying, the sneaking around, the dishonesty that I feel is so horribly disrespectful. Plus feeling like a chump... ugh. I told my exH many times that I have issues with trust and he seemed to be ok with honesty until he wanted out of the R and into the pants of his coworker.
Long story short, as Georgiabelle said it is hard to just forget after betrayal. You always carry it with you somewhere. Maybe you are just less naive. Maybe you are cynical. Maybe you can't be vulnerable.
That's what I am struggling with. I feel I am a cynical/logical person by nature and these experiences make it more difficult to be open and trusting. I feel like something is just out of reach and has been my whole life. I want to "know" that people cheat, see things logically, and yet not let it hurt when someone I trust betrays me. Accept that it is part of human nature to wander, and to expect that it could happen. I've got that part down, but how do I make it not hurt when it happens.
On the other hand, is it not self-fulfilling when you expect people to act like a**holes and then they do?
Good luck with Divorce Week. It sounds like you are keeping you head held high! You are really great raliced!
Long story short, as Georgiabelle said it is hard to just forget after betrayal. You always carry it with you somewhere. Maybe you are just less naive. Maybe you are cynical. Maybe you can't be vulnerable.
That's what I am struggling with. I feel I am a cynical/logical person by nature and these experiences make it more difficult to be open and trusting. I feel like something is just out of reach and has been my whole life. I want to "know" that people cheat, see things logically, and yet not let it hurt when someone I trust betrays me. Accept that it is part of human nature to wander, and to expect that it could happen. I've got that part down, but how do I make it not hurt when it happens.
Lisa, I'm also a sarcastic and cynical person. I spent a great deal of time in C to really understand how that affects the ones I love in my inner circle. So I work at not using sarcasm to passive/aggressively mask my true feelings, and I vowed 12+ years ago to never, ever use sarcasm again as a means to hurt others. So that pretty much limits me to humorous situations, which is fine.
I didn't have the cheating spouse betrayal. I just had the general "I don't love you anymore and anything is better than being married to you" betrayal. I've also had trust issues galore, but looking back in my crystal ball, I can see where I brought some of it on myself. My abandonment issues came into play when I really needed them to disappear, and my belief system that people will always hurt me definitely had a part as well. It's so damn difficult to work through this stuff.
I'm now 10 years past the divorce, and the reason I came back to this BB after a very long hiatus was because I realized I had some lingering issues with dating post D. My time in C last summer (where Brene Brown became the basis of my issues, quite unexpectely) made me realize that by insulating myself from the cold, cruel world, I had really just slammed the door on myself. I would just advise all of us here to take things really slowly and absorb the knowledge that the kind of love we want from a man in the future will require vulnerability to gain intimacy. Tough thing to do. But I know you can do it.
Quote:
On the other hand, is it not self-fulfilling when you expect people to act like a**holes and then they do?
Well, yeah. But then again, we don't have to be all Marilyn Monroe and go around thinking we always get the fuzzy end of the lollipop. Because truth be told, it's probably not true anyway. (You might want to read a little Byron Katie on this dynamic.)
Raliced-I'm sorry for being AWOL. I don't know if you read my post down in Surviving last week, but I had a traumatic and very sudden death in the family, and I wasn't in any shape to dispense advise or witty repartee. I'll just say that my D18 and I played hooky last Monday and had a movie day, which we again repeated all weekend this past weekend. Yesterday, we didn't even get out of our pjs.
Anyway, I was in your camp about the post D celebration. I cried. But I'm pretty sure I took my girls out to dinner and a movie just to keep things kind of normal. It wasn't painful, but it certainly wasn't a joyous day either.
I know I've recommended books on passive aggressiveness to people here, and not sure if you were one of them. Your computer story reminds me that I was married to one too. One of the traits that I value in people in general (even more than I did 10 years ago) is the ability to ask for what they want clearly, and to be able to negotiate the areas where there is disagreement... without name calling, fighting, P/A tactics, bargaining, hidden contracts, etc. In order for me to expect that from others, I know that I must do that myself. I would have had a very similar response to yours, thinking it was just inviting a discussion on why he felt a new pc was needed.
The new me would say, "this PC is only 2 years old. Why do you feel we need a new one? I'm all ears."
Probably conditioning on his part. It goes hand and hand with "deferring child related stuff" to you. He just doesn't know how to disagree with you, so he walks away and does what he wants to do anyway. I know how frustrating this is first hand.
If it makes you feel better, I actually made this journey part of my self improvement project. I figured if I could get my XH to get better along the way, it would be icing on the cake. But I really did it as a means to improving my own communication skills. So I practiced on him. All the time. I went to some excessive lengths to get him to open up to me, and I had to practice swallowing my own ego to do things his way if it wasn't life and death. And yes, I did this all in the throes of our separation. It totally svcked, because I felt I was eating more than my fair share of humble pie anyway. But it did wonders for our parenting relationship long term.
It was actually easy. I use this technique when meeting clients for the first time - very successfully. "Tell me more about why...you feel sending D7 to YMCA camp isn't a good idea" You'd be really surprised at how much that little phrase can open up clogged, unproductive discussions. It literally stole the air out of my XH's lame balloon when he had to reveal whether or not it was just to disagree with me (one of his favorite things to do in the past), he was itching to provoke me, or he generally felt strongly about something.
Well, time to head out and go pick up my D18. I'm late!
Take care, ladies.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
I just think every one needs some cash to spend on whatever they want without explanation.
Mad money to buy 100 doughnuts, an expensive new dress or to go to Loch Ness next year. For no good reason whatsoever. A monthly quarterly or annual pot of splash.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Lisa Thanks for dropping in. Sounds like this whole vulnerability enchilada will be difficult for the both of us.
Vanilla Actually- STBX and I always had one joint account for household expenses and savings, and our own individual accounts with a certain percentage of our incomes to do with as we pleased. It was something else that made the whole computergate thing perplexing.
Betsey - Thank you for dropping in while you have so much going on in your life. I'm very sorry to hear you had such a difficult weekend, but glad D18 was able to bring you comfort- there's no beating PJs and movies some days.
I hear what you are saying about the Passive Aggressive thing. My DB coach mentioned this when I described him as well, although she also thought he was in MLC (which I've never quite bought into). Its become more obvious to me as time has gone on since BD, and I've replayed all these old interactions - I will probably have to invest in some reading on this topic. I'm up for trying to make this better - I will have to do something - since at the moment he's no where near meeting me even a quarter of the way.
