GP, I was a champion stander, but now I urge people to look very carefully at reconciliation. I just do not see large scale data on people restoring marriages successfully after an affair. (If you find otherwise, I'd like to see it.)
Oh sure, there are stories where there is a reconciliation of sorts--but I want to know things like Was it really permanent? Or did it last a year or two or ten, only to have the abandoned spouse abandoned again? And how does each person see the marriage? There is silence there.
I "stood" a long time. I am not sorry that I did, because it allowed me to find myself and move on. But I now realize that there is a broken trust that is nearly impossible to repair--especially when you're dealing with someone who is childishly sulky and doesn't want to make the effort anyway. The abandoned spouse is left to wonder, What did I do?-and is often unfairly blamed for the affair. He was unhappy? Well, there were honorable ways to end things. In my case, my spouse abandoned right when I really needed him--when the going was tough, and not even that tough (he's got it much tougher now). And--chew on this--he later got involved with someone else (not the original OW, who was as narcissistic as he is) who was given a terminal diagnosis--and he BROKE UP with her, adding to her unhappiness and suffering in her last six months. I will never forget that. That told me a lot about how weak he is.
You are right--the common denominator in his unhappiness is HIM. He is going around bad-mouthing things you and things you care about. This is not a friend! Give him the space and starting thinking about fresh starts and new things.
As far as a house, I will share what I see: a house is just a box where you keep your stuff. I watched my parents hang on to lovely family home only to struggle to maintain it as they aged and then have to leave sooner than they wanted because the house had stairs, was isolated, not close to transportation, and was otherwise a bad place to be with issues of aging. Most people, I think, stay too long in homes that are too big. If you are retirement age, I believe it is better to shed stuff sooner rather than later, and you have fewer issues long-term. The happiest people I see in retirement are those who live small and simple in places where they have support. Maintaining a larger home might be a real mistake. I have a hard time thinking about leaving my home...but still need space for teen/tween kids. I will push New Husband to move when they have moved out. You may have been given a gift here--I assure you that it is much better to have this choice now as opposed to 15 years from now.
Just my opinion. Let's just say that once I went through this, I see it differently. People who run off and have affairs have big issues on their plates. Spouses left behind cannot solve or fix those issues--they can only fix their own. And I believe the spouses who leave take years to work through them, IF they ever do, and I now don't believe they often do. What seems more common is that they drift around aimlessly, hurting other people and feeling very sorry for themselves.
I would say stand as you need to, but protect yourself financially, give him the space YOU need, and let go. I found that having spouse hanging around sort of friendly-like and then finding out he was bad-mouthing only hurt more. So I am not exactly sorry that I was friendly, but I would not encourage it in someone in your shoes, either.
IF he ever re-emerges, you are not starting at square one with him. You have to start with knowledge that he was willing to do this once, without enough remorse to stop, and that is below square one.
M: 16 years Bomb 4/07 OW 20s long gone Divorced 11/09 I remarried New Guy Cooperative r w/X regarding D
Thanks, Forward for weighing in on my thread. I do appreciate the comments from those who have gone before because there is always something to gain. Your comment is so correct about securing finances. I got to a lawyer early on and it's all good. I'm protected, house is protected, investments protected. Nothing to worry about and I can relax. H has plenty to worry about though - LOC and charge card in his name and spending freely on those accounts. Typical for a MLCer. Pre-nup when we married protects me from any debt he incurs under his own name.
Standing for me is this: Not waiting for H to come back, moving forward in my own life and not pining for him either. All this means to me is that I am open to the possibility of a reconciliation if enough pieces fall into place. Many MLCers never get it and never mature but everything I've read suggests that most do come out of the MLC eventually. If not, it's an absolute deal breaker. No way, no how. If my H never changes, there will never be a recon. Or if he changes for the better, even much better, but the dynamics for us are off, then that's a deal breaker. We are both going to change so who knows really whether there is even going to be an attraction?
There are stories out there of couples who have made it and thrived. They say their marriage is better than ever. Many have been reconciled for many years. Not just a few years but 10 years, 20 years or more. I agree this could be rare. I also wonder though, if that is because the MLCer never recovers or is it more to do with the LBS saying "enough!" or is it that the MLCer never recovers.
My H has lots of space from believe me - probably more than he wants. I have let go and I am quite detached and happy these days. I don't contact him at all unless very important. I don't question him about his life, his OW, nothing. I ask no questions either. I wasn't always like this, especially in the early days but now being this way is almost second nature to me. Do I miss him? Yes, but he will not hear me say that. Do I still love him? Yes, but again he will not hear me say that. If we talk at all it's because he calls me and those calls are pretty frequent. We rarely talk longer than 5 minutes though. I keep it to business, as we are not friends. I'm pleasant though and it keeps things very calm. He doesn't monster either so that's good.
My Standing right now only says I am keeping that option open with no expectations. My Stand can also be dropped anytime if I decide I no longer want that option.
I think a lot of people think that Standing is sitting around at home and waiting for their MLCer to return. That's being a doormat, not a Stander. It's also not not Letting Go, and getting on with life. MLC takes a long time to resolve. Best to just move forward and stop watching their MLC journey. Otherwise that long time to resolve can feel like an eternity.
I don't agree that most MLCers do not recover. I think most do and I have read this many times. What is true though, is it takes a very very long time. Sometimes 10 years! So a lot can happen in the LBS's life over 10 years and I hope lots happens in my life in the next 10 years. No expectations for a reconciliation either, and I hope one day soon I will feel strong enough and secure enough in myself to enjoy a relationship with someone new. I'm not there quite yet though. It's a work in progress and I believe I am making good progress! Overall I am excited about my future and see it has many possibilities. But I am still a Stander - meaning only that it's a possibility, but nothing more than that.
It took me awhile to figure out how to get on with my own life and survive this turbulence. Quite awhile, but I have made great strides lately and I feel strong, happy, relaxed. I've also let go of the resentment, and the anger and the fear. I enjoy living alone now without feeling lonely. My IC is very pleased with my progress. We have tackled a few major issues and it's all coming together quite nicely. Going forward - whatever happens, happens and I will be fine.
My rings question: I have a beautiful heirloom ring from my Mother who passed away recently. When I wear it on my Right hand, and nothing on my Left hand, it feels like I am revealing my availability which I do not want to do right now. So for months, I have not worn a ring on either hand so no conclusions can be drawn about my availability. Only thing with that was that I wasn't enjoying wearing my mothers beautiful ring. So then I thought, wear the ring on the right hand and wear something on the left. Wedding band is all I have so tried that and it doesn't feel right at all. So off it comes and then Job suggested an obvious solution that feels fine to me and not at all deceptive.
As to your house, if you cannot afford it without him, move. Do not let him harm you further. And, what better way to show him you're moving on. It sounds like you're attached to the status of having a Nice House as much as to the house itself, and that makes so much sense. See if you can find ways to appreciate a different house, one that allows you the financial freedom to explore other dreams. One that is easier to take care of? One that is more central to your favorite things? And, realistically, it seems like this MLC thing is kind of a long haul... so, are you really going to hang out in a house you can't afford for 3 to 5 five years while he's out there growing up?
You could also see if you could rent the house out to people who would cover the mortgage while you live elsewhere if you wanted to keep the option open, but that sounds like extra work.
I, too, have read lots about MLC in lots of places. A lot of people suggest that "most" MLCers come back, and the vibe here seems to be that it's unusual or rare. And, I'd sure like to know the future, but in the end, I guess, what all those other MLCers do is probably not going to influence my MLCer either. My situation is super unique... but, probably, really, no more unique than others. I hope for my M but I have also found the following sentence super comforting.
My old M is dead. I mean, I also don't WANT that guy back. The guy who was apparently so unhappy and never had the guts to tell me? The guy who claimed to never have a need of his own and was so easygoing and, meanwhile, he was a stewing pot of repressed emotions? The guy who was probably projecting his mommy issues on to me the entire 20 years we were married? I don't want him back. I don't know who my H will be when he gets through the tunnel. Sometimes, I see glimpses of this pretty stellar guy and I desperately want to meet that guy full time. THAT guy and I might have a future together, but the old guy and I do not. That marriage is dead. AND, I miss feeling loved, being held, feeling SO certain of my safety and our future together. Oh yes, I miss that rock solid belief... the thing was, it was never true. I just believed it, but it was actually never, not ever, true.
You got this, though. You do.
BD#1: "marriage is over" 9/14/2016 H in basement 24/7 with EX/OM BD#2: 3/20/2017 I plan to move out "soon" I LRT me: 42, H, 41, EX/OM, 37 D 10, Son 7 M to H = 20 years EX/OM moved in 10 years ago
Just want to say I have read your post about standing a few times. It�s helped me to hear what you say. I�m amazed at your level of detachment and how his R with OW means nothing to you. You are a strong woman. Peace.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Hi all, and Gordie, Survive - thank you for the comments!
It's been awhile since I've been here and I am happy to say my journey continues in a very positive way. I've undergone a major shift in attitude about my future. It seems like I was stuck for months, unable to detach and always asking questions like "why?" The biggest breakthrough is in regards to the future of my M. Basically, I no longer see a future there and it feels like a really good thing!
I'm not sure what brought about the shift although I am one of those people who has no problem being alone. I enjoy my own company which has allowed me lots of time to re-assess all that has happened to me/us over the last 7 months. I now look back and see my situation with new eyes.
This is what I see with those new eyes: my M wasn't as good as I thought it was and my H wasn't as solid as I thought either. There were some minor issues in the M that I overlooked because other aspects of the M were great. I wasn't concerned much about his personal flaws either, thinking we all have them.
Yep, we all have flaws but not all of us have fatal flaws - like serious character defects that leads one to abandon instead of repair. Or a defect that leads one to continually make wrong choices which are usually self-serving rather than marriage preserving. My H has these flaws and had them long before his MLC. I can see that now with my new eyes and it's changed me and how I see my H.
I now doubt my H was faithful and loyal to me even before his MLC. Once I would be shocked to think that, but no longer. Those fatal flaws were there before - emotional weakness, people pleaser, lack of boundaries, and the big one... pretending to be fully committed. My H recently confessed that when we were out anywhere, he was always scanning the room to see if he could catch the eye of a women who was there with her H. Once he had the eye contact, he was good. That validated his weak self-esteem for awhile but eventually he would need another fix. He says it never progressed beyond that but idk. I don't know why I didn't catch on to this before but there it is and I missed it.
Strangely (or not) his OW is the same only much worse. I've not met her but she is single, attractive, seductive and 60 yrs. old. She has 'these eyes' that she uses to catch the attention of ANY male of any age within sight and will shamelessly do so even when H is with her. It's a game to her - she gets the attention and then is smug about it to H. H is not happy about it but thinks this is just the way she is, it's harmless, shouldn't stress about it. He is also pretty sure she won't cheat on him. What? He's blind if he thinks that. She lures men for amusement, and then she lured my more than willing H with those eyes too. It's only a matter of time before this R blows up in his face.
Knowing this, how can I continue to think good things about this man? He threw our life away for an instant attraction to a game player. Fully seeing and fully accepting that this is who he is, has taken me to total detachment. I doubt I could ever see him in a positive light again. He is just not someone I want. He seems to have stepped up his "touch and goes" lately, but it isn't having the impact on me it once did. In fact, it's having no impact - I don't want him back now, and possibly never. Life is too good without him in it.
Okay enough of that. On a very positive front, I have learned that I will be able to keep my house with or without any financial support from H. I have been looking at condos and townhouses which don't compare to the space and comfort of my home. To move would only save me a few hundred dollars a month over the condo/townhouse option. The trade off is just not worth it. In a five years or so when I am ready I will sell the house - the equity gain will more than make up the extra few hundred a month I will pay for the house over a condo. H has no say in this - the equity in it is mine, I just didn't think I could manage the mortgage payment if he wasn't financially contributing. My house isn't big and fancy but it is nice and I'm very comfy here. I can't tell you how happy I am that I can stay here!
I enjoy my solitary life, choosing when to go out or not, to eat dinner now or later, to clean the house today or tomorrow, and spending time with friends who are fun and supportive whenever I want. Overall I feel really strong and positive about my life and my future. I deserve so much more than what I got at BD. In fact my H bombing me was a blessing in disguise. Didn't think so at the time but certainly do now. H did me a huge favor and a huge disservice to himself. So sorry, H but these were your choices.
I could have written much of your post. I too wonder how much more flirting and/or infidelity went on during the marriage that I didn't know about. And now, 9 years after he split for good, his character flaws are glaring. My life is good, even though I've had my share of dating adventures (or misadventures, depending on how you look at them lol), but I don't lack for male companionship if I want it. I have a nice home, room for my mom and two of my three adult children who live with me right now, and I don't miss my ex, even though we were together for 26 years. I like steering my own ship and I've done pretty well. I've grown in many ways.
Btw, have you thought of getting a roommate to help with that mortgage? The Golden Girls looks like a smart arrangement to me now!
What a great post I know my XH was no saint ..I was so hooked on the M is forever ideal and the fantasy of being M ..and keeping it together
But in reality my XH was very unavailable as a H most of our M- and especially after the second child- I'm sure he cheated as well especially the last few years after he became successful
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
Btw, have you thought of getting a roommate to help with that mortgage? The Golden Girls looks like a smart arrangement to me now!
Absolutely have looked at this option! It's a great house for sharing and it would give me more breathing room financially. I can do it on my own if I'm working but it would be a bit tight. Also I think I am ready to share the house while back a few months I wasn't. Keep up with those dating adventures!
Peacetoday - hi and thank you too.
quote] was so hooked on the M is forever ideal and the fantasy of being M ..and keeping it together[/quote]
That was me too, if I'm honest. I waited a long time for "mr. right" (lower case intentional), and wasn't willing to admit that our M wasn't as good as I thought. Yes, we had a very comfortable relationship, never fought, etc, but there was little passion on either side. Neither one of us took any action to remedy that either. Difference is I would have done anything to preserve what we had and H took the easy way out and bailed. He is still trying to be friends though and I'm really not interested now that I see clearly the man he is as well as the man he isn't.
I had written a long post that got zapped by a lost connection. Short version:
1. You sound like you are in a great place. 2. I too question my prior version of our R. 3. Sorry, I think it�s funny that he thinks OW will be faithful. 4. When you say there was a lack of passion but that you were okay with that...and neither of you did anything about it...could you elaborate? Asking for a friend (wink, wink).
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
I had written a long post that got zapped by a lost connection.
Haha, Gordie - the SAME thing happened to me when posting on your thread the other day! Hit a wrong button or something and,,, poof... GONE. It was also a long post so I did the rewrite on 'pages' on the computer. Then pasted to your thread. Things written on Pages don't disappear so easily!
Quote:
When you say there was a lack of passion but that you were okay with that...and neither of you did anything about it...could you elaborate? Asking for a friend (wink, wink).
Two kinds of love: Eros and Agape.
Eros love (passion, sex) seems effortless in the beginning. It is exhilarating, and makes us feel so good. It is more about how the partner makes us feel than how we feel about our partner.
Agape love is more about actively choosing to love someone because you want the best for them in all things. It isn't typically present in the beginning but grows and deepens over time while the Eros love typically dwindles over time. Eros love is more selfish but Agape love is selfless.
It takes effort for long term marriages to keep Eros love strong. But when Agape love is very strong, it can be enough for some of us, so the effort to maintain Eros love often falls away.
Does this help explain my 'lack of passion' comment? Eros had dwindled but with deep Agape love we were okay with it. Until... the unthinkable happened, and an affair was born to satisfy the desire for Eros love. So it's really NOT okay to ignore Eros love either. It definitely needs to be present in a healthy marriage.
This is a pretty simplistic way of explaining and others might disagree. I believe that MLC also defies this explanation. I think it was a factor in my marriage, but wouldn't go so far as to say it caused the MLC or could have prevented it.
