A little lost - possible MFC wife

[Tmason]

I understand that, but one of her complaints was that I didn't compliment her enough. I'm not over doing it, like following her around and saying something every time she does something. If she dresses nice for work, I'll say she looks good. I'm trying to balance it out, but I don't see how stopping all together is beneficial. I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I'm just trying to figure this out, which is hard to do!!

I've stopped the notes, I can see where that would be viewed negatively. I'm giving her the space she asked for, I don't ask about the MR unless she wants to talk about it, I haven't pressed her for physical contact.

What I've done is work on myself through counseling, exercise, hobbies (woodworking and guitar) and reaching out to friends that I ignored due to depression.

I'm praying that making myself into a better person, she will not want to leave.

[Gerda]

I'm praying that making myself into a better person, she will not want to leave.

Nothing you do will make her want to stay. She will come back if she is ever able to listen to God's voice. You could not change anything about yourself and she would come back because she woke up. You could change everything and become an actual saint and she won't come back because she didn't wake up. She could come back while still hating you because she got very ill or ran out of money.

She won't come back because of something you did, I assure you. The more I changed, the more of a monster my H became. I got cancer during his MLC and that did nothing.

I know it hurts to hear this. It hurt me so much to hear it. And it can go either way. My H got worse, your W might get better and come back. But it won't be rational. It won't be because she saw that you changed. She can't see you right now, as you are or as you were or as you will be. All she can see is her own pain.

In my journey, I got closer and closer to God until I was able to understand that He has a plan for me, even if it's not the one I thought He had. I am slowly healing wounds that pre-dated my H but which led to my allowing so much abuse. I am finding my own self. I accept my circumstances and try to meet God where I am, not where I wish I were.

All you can do is become the man God intends you to be. Everyday, when you pray, offer her to God. Tell her she is His daughter and He needs to take care of her and tell God you don't know what to do with your love because you have nowhere to put it and it's hurting you to have so much love with nowhere to put it. Write her letters you won't give her to get all feelings out. Ask God to align your will with His. Your will is torturing you right now. You are in the desert now. All you can do is walk to the other side of it and realize your will means nothing. Let her walk through it on her own time. Find the manna God leaves for you along the way and thank God for the moments you can still find joy while in the desert.

[DnJ]

Hello T

It’s nice to see you working on figuring stuff out. It does take a certain amount of understanding to move forward.

But I do have to ask, the point is to be the best version of yourself. Work on me and improve myself, but doesn't that include being more attentive to those you love? Seeing how they are doing, complimenting them when they look good or doing something good? I do that with my kids. Being a good person is getting out of your own head and focusing on others, how does that jive with the almost ignoring W? or am I misreading the 37 rules?

HaWho’s comment about dragging W around during a tango is apt.

Complimenting and being more attentive is a facet of self improvement - when the other person wants that attention. Love is a two way street here.

The expression - if you truly love something or someone let them go.

In a nutshell, that’s what you are seeking to be able to fearless do. Let go.

I understand that, but one of her complaints was that I didn't compliment her enough. I'm not over doing it, like following her around and saying something every time she does something. If she dresses nice for work, I'll say she looks good. I'm trying to balance it out, but I don't see how stopping all together is beneficial. I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I'm just trying to figure this out, which is hard to do!!

I know you are not being antagonistic. This is counterintuitive, it’s take time and questions to see and understand.

People usually show what they are desiring in their behaviours. For example, you complimenting her. You want her to compliment you as well.

Her saying nothing right now to you, shows she wants emotional space.

Of course you can be polite and friendly. You are not trying to ignoring her, or punish her; more mirror how she behaves.

If you were interested in someone, you’d probably introduce yourself. Have a conversation and see where things go. Like you did with W so long ago. W responded in kind and you both moved forward into a relationship.

Currently, those rules and behaviours are not the normal for her. She is confused and conflicted. She is in crisis and needs space and time to sort herself out. This has nothing to do with you. You didn’t break her, so you cannot fix her.

This is the crux of MLC and our path. Letting go. There is so little we can do to affect the MLCer’s path. These hurting people were placed on their path a long time ago, waiting for a trigger to start them along. Once the LBS gets the BD things are well beyond control and there is no reversing this emotional train wreck.

That is MLC - an emotional train wreck. One in which the LBS is not invited along. Most LBS do get all sorts of justifications, blame, and anger projected upon them, but they are not the underlying cause.

The LBS, focuses on themselves, lets go, and becomes better not bitter.

Pressures and stresses W will not handle well. She will run from them. The efforts you are doing are currently pressure to her. How can you tell? Look at how she responds. Not how she used to respond, nor how you want her to respond, how she is actually responding. Right now, it is a pretty one-sided effort from you.

As said, there are times she appears to want to make it work and other times she doesn’t. That is the problem. When you push during a time when she doesn’t want to work on it, well that isn’t going to go well.

People in emotional turmoil do hide and mask their emotions, really well. Even from themselves. It is very common for them to wear a mask and pretend things are something they are not.

Let her lead. If she compliments you, thank her and compliment her. You have the right idea, nothing big and over the top, always seeking a balance. It’s the timing, and being patience. Need to let her show when a good time is.

Positive feedback could slowly encourage change within her. The caveats, she needs to want the feedback, she needs to want it to be positive, and she needs to want to change. Ok, so a couple of hurdles.

T, you’ve being dragged into a world with your W where the normal behaviours and known interactions no longer apply like you know they used to. I know it seems scary and crazy. Have faith, it is not hopeless. The future is unknown and will reveal itself in time.

Do ask questions, read posts, vent, seek guidance. You are not alone in this, many people are in the same boat you are.

You will get to the other side. Stay strong.

DnJ

[HaWho]

Before you commence complimenting her (because that was one of her complaints about you), have a heart to heart with yourself about all the reasons you want to do this. Is it mostly because you want to be a better version of yourself for you? Can you do this with no expectations back from her? Is it to make her happy and keep her from leaving?

What if you stop complimenting her completely and she leaves the marriage. And she tells you that is the reason. What have you lost? Do you think it’s healthy to give up on a marriage because someone does not compliment you enough? Is that how unconditional love works? What would you make of a grown woman needing complimenting to this level?

Have you ever read No More Mr. Nice Guy?

[Believe6]

Yes, this weekend was productive. We need to do work on the house/yard so we worked together on putting in a chain link fence/gate. It went well, we were able to work well together, we always have worked on projects well together, and it was good to feel like we accomplished something.
On Saturday, W was feeling down because of the lockdown, so she suggested we get all the foods we would get for a party, if we were having one. So we did, then got on Zoom with some friends and did the jackbox.tv games. It was fun and very much needed.

T- it's good that you had some fun moments. As our MLCers are in pain, confused or even numb, any positive feelings are good ones. Unfortunately, we aren't going to be the cause of them at this time.

There are times it seems like she is trying to make it work, then other times when she isn't. We have another marriage counseling session on Wednesday but we haven't done what the counselor suggested yet. After our last one, the counselor sent us "homework", and W and I talked about it, I said you need to let me know when you want to do this, she said ok, but hasn't brought it up yet. I don't want to nag about it so I haven't mentioned it either.

We were going to counseling too and at first my H was totally open and really loved our therapist. Sorry, but this is common. My H tried for 3 months right after bomb drop (BD), but then he just did a 180 and decided not to try anymore. He actually started to shut down. The feelings we talked about were just too much for him. I could see it in his eyes and in the way he couldn't clearly state his feelings. My H is avoidant-- conflict and emotional. He was always affectionate and loving, but any negative emotions he would stuff down. Anyway, I could tell at our last appt which was weeks ago now, that he just couldn't really participate. You can tell when they stop wanting to talk or do the 'homework.' This is why therapy sometimes is worse as they can't be honest in there and it can be seen as "push/pull" behaviors for them. And worse if the therapist doesn't understand MLC, they will often steer them wrong. Sorry, I am still in the midst of this, but I do believe others who say this is true.

I also stopped saying I love you at night and when I leave for work in the morning. It feels weird though because it's something I've said for 23 years. She hasn't said it back to me in weeks, and I've kept it up so stopping is hard. It's automatic. But this is one of the rules right?

So, like I said, my H did a 180. And I mean from being there for me, going out of his way to apologize, etc... to NOTHING. No more affection. No more "I love you" and we said it so much during the day people would comment, even friends at work who heard me talk to him (been unemployed, but since I've been home I would often say it or text it or email it). But not anymore. He hasn't repeated it back in weeks and it hurts too much to keep saying it. Plus it is considered push/pull behavior. They feel like we are trying to manipulate them or make them feel guilty. That may not be our intention, but somewhere inside, we want them to remember that we love them, right?

They can't handle that right now. When they think about us, if at all, we are the cause of their pain. Us loving them and them loving us has caused their life to suck. Sorry, but I think that this is what is happening with them. They need someone to blame for the pain, guilt, sorrow, loss, etc. that they feel. We are the closest people to them so they must choose us. Some even choose to take it out on kids, pets, close family too. But we will always take the brunt so we have to step back and detach. We can love without making it front and center. When they say, let go of the rope and detach, they mean it. Otherwise we will drown with them. In our own pain and misery.

I'm still working on me, praying, reading more books on how to deal with depression and exercising daily.

But I do have to ask, the point is to be the best version of yourself. Work on me and improve myself, but doesn't that include being more attentive to those you love? Seeing how they are doing, complimenting them when they look good or doing something good? I do that with my kids. Being a good person is getting out of your own head and focusing on others, how does that jive with the almost ignoring W? or am I misreading the 37 rules?

You are actually NOT ignoring W. You are "respecting" her. Have you ever had someone like/love you when you were younger but you didn't feel the same? They kept calling or trying to get you to talk to them or have friends intercede for you? Remember how awkward and uncomfortable you felt? This is MILD compared to what our MCLers feel.

Right now, we are the cause of their pain. We actually cause them more pain by trying to intrude on their need to heal and figure themselves out. They keep saying here, "we didn't break them so we can't fix them." Most of us are fixers. We don't want to see the people we love in pain. But that also means we are in their business too much. They can't hear themselves or deal with their own feelings when we continue to shove our feelings in their face.

We have to let them deal with their own feelings and stop expecting them to give us what we need and deserve. They just don't have it. They can't. They are in their own darkness. So when we ache for them to hold us, when we want to be told how precious we are, how special our love was to them... we need to TELL OURSELVES that. They can't do that right now. They are completely disconnected from those feelings about us.

Worse yet, if there is another person who is giving them what they need, we are now seen as the enemy (maybe we already have been) but in this scenario as the reason they can't have their one true love or the happiness they want. They don't realize that they are using another person to feel something that will only die eventually. That if they don't face this pain, this confusion, this trauma, they will never be who they were meant to be... never ever really be happy. They even may convince themselves that they were. But if you look deep into their eyes and see their spirit, you would know that they weren't whole.

But again, that's not for us to fix. That's for them. This is her journey. You can not go on it with her. You have your own. Your kids need you to focus on your own journey. To look for your own validation of your own life. For you to hear your own inner voice and heal your own wounds. This is our job now... Our job is NOT the MLCer. Our job is to be our best self for ourselves first, then our kids, then the rest of the world.

Once our spouse comes out of the tunnel, we will need all that we have learned and all the ways we have grown to help them. But NOT NOW. Now is for you.

I know it is so very hard. I am so very sorry. We all have to go back and forth with this love thing. Yes, in normal circumstances, our love would make a huge difference to our spouse. But unfortunately, not now and not until they show signs (actions not words) that they are ready to receive. Until then, they use the anger/hate/indifference to hold us off because their feelings are too much for them to bear. They can't deal with our pain and their own. Even when we think we aren't giving them our pain, we are. Trust me. When I pray and ask God to show me how I need to change to help my H, that is what I see. I see him not being able to deal with his grief, guilt, anger, sorrow, confusion, fear... and mine too.

It is not loving to expect him to respond as he used to. He is not who he used to be. Not right now, so if I really want to love him, I need to stop and give him what he needs. Space, time, respect, silence, compassion, empathy, understanding... and most of that is done silently. In my heart and mind, I still talk to him. I still praise him for his strength, courage, love, dedication, all the years of all the moments of all my life... I thank him. But it's only in my mind and heart (sometimes in emails and letters I write but send to myself).

And maybe, I pray, when he comes home to me, I can share all that with him. But I know too that will have to be in phases. Please keep reading about MLC. It will make it easier to understand why we must do it this way.

Blessings

[Tmason]

We had another counseling session. It went ok, she is still a little hesitant to work on the marriage. She did say she is going through a midlife crisis. First step to getting help is admitting there is a problem right? She still doesn't know what she wants.

Counselor gave us 3 things to work on, thanking one another for what we do around the house, hugging at least 2 times a week and going on a walk together. We've always been appreciative of what the other does around the house so that's not a problem. I did come home yesterday with a Sonic drink for everyone and she gave me a hug, so baby steps? So we'll see if she does the walk with me this weekend.

Taking this one day at a time, still working on me that's the only thing I can change.

[MissnM]

Very well said, Believe. It helped me a lot to read and be reminded. Thank you.

[DnJ]

Good Morning T

I’m glad to see you removed the pressure from W.

It is interesting that she seeing herself in a crisis or emotional turmoil. Yes, she still doesn’t know what she wants, and only time will tell which way things will go.

Do take it slowly. The MC’s suggestions of being polite, giving two hugs, and going on a walk are good. Nice to see she hugged and thanked you. Hopefully you two will have a pleasant walk together this weekend.

Take care of yourself.

DnJ

[Tmason]

It is very interesting, she literally said "I'm having a midlifecrisis". From what I've read, most people don't acknowledge it. She had a biblical counseling degree, so I know she knows all this stuff. Its hopeful, because I don't think it will be bad. I think we all need to change as we get older. She needs to find herself, that's fine. I'll be here for when she's ready.

[Tmason]

just me typing up random stuff:

I really enjoyed our walk yesterday. I'm glad you still want to do the marriage meetings and it does give me hope. I know you said that you've made up your mind that you want this separation and that changing your mind would not validate your feelings. I know I've screwed up and not been a loving husband, but I can make the changes you want. I can be the husband you need. It will take time for you to trust me again with your heart/feelings, but I'll be here and wait.

You've said a few times, why can we just end this and call it good? We've come to the end of this relationship. What I see is an end to the old relationship. The non communication, the lack of interest, that should definitely end. It wasn't healthy for you or me. So yes, that relationship should be converted to a new one, where we work on loving each other. Love is a choice, feelings ebb and flow, but love chooses to question the feelings and tell the other person, with grace, why that hurt.

I don't want this to end because I desperately love you. I love seeing you in the morning getting ready for the day. I love working on projects around the house with you. You excite me.