If you need a divorce. Not want, need. For financial protection, or abuse, or assault, or some such, then get it. However, three years.
Are you saying your recommendation is that I give it three years?
Sorry about that. Didn’t mean to leave such a hanging and incomplete sentence.
No, I was not alluding to any time line. I was thinking/considering something you had said in your summary.
Originally Posted by Doug54
-August 2019: stepdaughter goes away to college. W cries on the drive home after we move her in. In hindsight, I'm wondering if this was a kickoff point for W's MLC.
Three years since W’s possible kickoff/trigger for her struggles. A year and a half later the laptop incident. Then March-ish 2022 BD.
You are almost a year from BD, three years from probable inception. Was just considering want vs need for divorce. Doing something undesirable out of need or want has different associated guilt and repercussions.
My recommendation would be to not take actions that purposefully lead to divorce. Let her do the heavy lifting. Unless you need it. Mental health, emotional health, financial health, and so on - you define the point of need.
Just some thoughts.
Glad you asked for clarification. Have a great day Doug.
D
The college thing sounds familiar. We dropped d23 off at college in 2017 and W cried like a baby the entire 2 hour drive home. Never thought about it as a trigger. Maybe it wasn’t, but we haven’t had any other big life events.
Lots of feelings and thoughts stir when the kids leave the nest. Did I do a good job raising them? Gosh, it’s going to be quiet. Now what do I do? Oh my, I’m old. And such.
When my first of four kids left for university, it hit W hard. She started upon a pretty sad path. She became consumed by dark tormenting feelings.
She started exercising to the extreme. Like 6 hours a day, on top of running her daycare, gardening, and so on. She lost a bunch of weight. A dangerous amount. She was a fit slim 5’10” gal and really had no extra weight. Still she dropped around 40 pounds. She became crazy thin. Like bones sticking out of her thin.
And of course, she started an affair. And other running behaviours.
A few days after BD, she actually told me she had thought she was going crazy. For months, she had cried entire days while the kids were in school and I was at work. Months! And she hid what she was going through. She had no index, no language, to explain what she was feeling and thinking. She was so scared and tormented.
Her epiphany was when she concluded that a crazy person wouldn’t think they were going crazy, so therefore she wasn’t. And everything she felt and was doing was absolutely right. Absolutely! She was so incredibly sure.
And with that, she burnt her old life to the ground. She threw me, the kids (S19, S18, S16, D15), the dogs, the house, the cars, her family heirlooms, gifts from the kids - everything she tossed it aside like we/it were trash. Her grand Thanksgiving supper announcement of her affair and leaving was an utter shock to all eight of us (kids, me, and my parents) sitting around the left over turkey. “D, you get the house, the car, and kids. Unless you don’t want them, then I guess I’ll have to take them.” It was shock and pandemonium.
So many reactions from us seated around the table. My eldest got immediately angry. So did my Dad and son’s GF. My second oldest had an attack and could not breath. He stumbled outside and his GF had to go after him. My youngest son, got furious! My daughter was in shock. My Mom was likewise dumbfounded and starred at the chaos in disbelief. I, from what I was told, went white as a ghost. My blood drained from me and I kind of went into shock.
I did manage to get W to come out to the living room and we talked. Her blaming me for things. A few examples, according to W, of “my” faults that warranted divorce and all the collateral damages: The furnace vent blows cold air when it starts up. My company provided work truck burns too much gas, and she is trying to save the planet. My stated rebuttal that I own and drive a Prius meant nothing. I was an old man. Again, reason meant nothing, she just ignored the stated facts that I was 49 and she was 46 at the time.
Our conversation was bizarre. She sad nothing against me. She actually blamed the kids more than me. (Later, I found out just how true that was.)
Anyhow, she completed her exodus 3 hours later when she walked in to the darkness, with just the clothes on her back, down our 1400 foot driveway to waiting OM. She moved in with him that night.
Time from us completely unaware, living our normal loving family with loving wife/Mom to her gone, was 3 hours. Staggering thing to witness. And thank goodness there were so many witnesses.
What a terrible night in the aftermath of that. I had the presence of mind to ask everyone to write down what they saw and heard. Their account of the events. They all did. Interesting having such a written record. Individual viewpoints all corroborating something that was unthinkable.
A few weeks later, W confided how the pending empty nest was really bothering her. Her solution, and as messed up as this is, her solution and “her” logical reasoned plan was to leave the kids before the kids could leave her. I tried to reason and explain the illogic of that. LOL. Believe me when I tell you this, you cannot talk a MLCer out of their plans. She believed she was correct, with such assuredness.
This woman, my wife, I knew for 31 years. Married for 26. Four kids. She become an alien. The complete opposite of who she was. She destroyed her life. And I’ve never seen her so sure about anything as much has she displayed when dropping the bomb. As she said that night - “I am willing to risk never seeing my kids again for a chance at happiness.”
Such a lost soul.
She had happiness. Love. Joy. Fulfilment. And it was all ripped away from some unearthed terrible childhood traumas that were long ago buried by the very people who should have protected her.
God, please bestow your mercy upon her.
For those that have seen this kind of thing, you know what I speak of. For those that haven’t, I totally get how unbelievable MLC sounds.
A midlife crisis is a horrible soul consuming thing. I’d not wish it upon my worst enemy. It is that bad!
I read a lot of situations here. I see lots of stories of emotional turmoil and such, and I hope and pray every time, that it’s more life transition than crisis.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Been a while since I posted. I think posting and being on the forum tended to make me overthink things and over-analyze my situation, so I gave it a break for an attempt at mental clarity.
To update things - was living in a de facto IHS situation with an MLC wife who was definitely up to no good on some level. She was making very little $ while finishing a second degree that would pave the way for her to earn more. Three kids at home, two stepkids (hers) in college. She would make nebulous references to leaving but never really advanced things.
In mid-March, I busted up the affair she was having. It was counter to DBing and leaving her to her own devices, but I just got tired of it. There had been a slow trickle of information and finding things out, partly from a tranche of iPhone "Notes" that transferred from her phone to our son's when he got a new one (same Apple ID). Anyway, I saw her location one day when she was supposed to be at work and tracked her to a motel, where I confronted the guy as he left and said I was going to fill his wife in on all the details. Honestly, in spite of how my actions would probably go against all advice offered on here, I just needed to know. I don't regret it.
It was all surreal and almost felt like something out of a movie. I kicked her out of the master bedroom for what amounted to about two weeks before relenting somewhat, partly due to talking with a co-worker whose spouse had also had an affair. Got STD tested just to be sure. W elected to stay out of the master bedroom with me on her own for the most part. She filed a motion for child support through the court in April, which she claimed was only to get us access to free mediation and "get the ball rolling." I made my second lawyer visit at this point, where he said her court filing made no sense since we weren't separated.
In mediation (mid-May), we talked about things that might apply but were only theoretical at that point. I didn't like her proposed child visitation schedule and we didn't really get anywhere when discussing the house. She still had not gotten a job when the actual July court date approached, so we went to one more mediation session and then she dropped the petition. There was a point in late May when she had resumed sleeping in the master bedroom with me, which has continued to this day.
The affair guy clearly panicked and called things off that day. He lives an hour away and would be in town here once or twice a month. W definitely had withdrawal and would say things to me like "You thought I'd run right back to you after you broke this up," "I'll never forgive you for this," and "Why did you show up that day?" Those "arguments" slowed down over the months since March but would still come up occasionally, tipping her hand that nothing had resumed (she's not a good enough actress to manufacture that). I'm just adding a touch of context here; I don't trust her at all and I'm not claiming victory that she's now faithful again.
We still largely lived a life resembling IHS, which of course isn't fun. Bedroom stuff occurred at a lesser frequency but still took place. A couple weeks ago, she finally got a full-time job (ironically enough, a few days after withdrawing the court petition). A couple days ago she notified me that she'd scheduled another mediation session. I'm not court-mandated to go to this one, but I will. She seems to be singing a different tune about our house and appears willing to move out to start the real separation process. I still had designs on her emerging from MLC (not sure of whatever timeline I may have envisioned) but it may be time to move on at this point. She appears to be menopausal or perimenopausal (at 44, which seems young) with irregular periods and frequent hot/cold changes. She's probably a poster child for going nuts at this point in her life.
I'm not sure how hard to play the house card - she said a realtor said we could sell the house in a week flat and at a price that would net both of us a decent sum. Supposedly, she has designs on a townhouse rental for herself that would come open mid-September. As of now I'm inclined to say I'm not leaving the house right before school starts for the kids. If we didn't start the separation clock until she formally moves out in September, I could certainly claim rights to not leaving the house before next June, no? A lot to process. Also, would she forfeit any of her say in the house if she moves out and only pays rent on her new place, while I continue to pay the mortgage myself? I'm sure the mediator would help her with this question if it comes up but I was wondering.
Hopefully some familiar folks will chime in as I've always appreciated the words and advice on here.
So good to hear from you. Doug, you sound well grounded and balanced.
W’s petition to the court for child support was weird. As your L said, it makes no sense as you two aren’t separated. Seems like a half-baked emotional reaction from her for being kicked out of the master bedroom. And then she drops it three months later when the reality of court is upon her.
I see W got full time work. Is this employment in the field she was studying for? Did she finish college and graduate?
Originally Posted by Doug54
I'm not sure how hard to play the house card - she said a realtor said we could sell the house in a week flat and at a price that would net both of us a decent sum. Supposedly, she has designs on a townhouse rental for herself that would come open mid-September. As of now I'm inclined to say I'm not leaving the house right before school starts for the kids. If we didn't start the separation clock until she formally moves out in September, I could certainly claim rights to not leaving the house before next June, no? A lot to process. Also, would she forfeit any of her say in the house if she moves out and only pays rent on her new place, while I continue to pay the mortgage myself? I'm sure the mediator would help her with this question if it comes up but I was wondering.
I’d not do too much in direct response to her “new” only days old moving out and separating plan. If she wants to move to a townhouse, she can go for it. The most help towards the heavy lifting would be you holding the door open so she can carry her stuff to her car.
I’m right with you on not upending the kids lives with weeks notice just before school. Sure, you might sell the place in a week flat, yet you and the kids still need to live somewhere. Sounds like another half-baked emotional plan; kind of like W. She needs more time. Not quite done baking that one.
Anyhow, speak to lawyer about all this. Not only the joint mediator. Certainly listen to the mediator and others, yet talk to your lawyer. And of course, do not share your L’s info with W.
Depending on your locale, leaving (abandoning) the marital home can waive certain rights and entitlements regarding home and assets.
I’d suggest, and it’s right from my path so I’m likely bias , I’d suggest remaining in the home. Kids know it, and love it. That’s a plus on the custody side too, and also where the kids want to be. When they are of legal age to decide for themselves is usually around 12, so S14 would likely get to choose.
My lawyer chuckled about when I asked about what if teens don’t get to choose where to live. A teen can/will make someone’s life hell if they are forced to live at a place they do not want to be at. Very true, I suspect. Raising teens was stressful enough, and that was with them wanting to be under my roof. Lol.
As to memories and ghost of the past. From my biased path: Make friends with them.
Regardless of where you reside, or visit, or travel to, there you are. And we all bring our memories along. Make peace and friends with all those ghosts.
Funny thing, those ghosts don’t really haunt. Speak to them. Ask them why they are here. Most are memories of past happy times. And are actually quite nice to revisit once in a while. The house and stuff, is just that - stuff. And just stirs what’s inside you.
Have a great Sunday.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thanks for the thoughts. I know the typical response to what I'm about to ask is "Talk to your lawyer," but I've paid for two fairly expensive sessions so far (just in a format of getting questions answered) and was hoping to not go back until some wheels were really moving.
Anyway - W seems pretty serious about moving into a townhouse, possibly as early as September 1. We're going to a mediation session tomorrow that she scheduled after getting her new job. She wants to work on an agreement about the kids and visitation and talk about the house.
My question is, how quickly could I be forced to make a decision about whether to try to buy her out on the house or agree to sell? I had thought I could say "hey, you just moved out and the separation clock has barely started- I'm not ready to think about that yet." Could she formally file for divorce right after moving out and could that force my hand on a house decision?
The timing of all this could hardly be worse given that we have a nice interest rate on our mortgage and current rates are sky-high, plus the kids are about to return to school. Moreover, the value of our house has increased and I may not be able to buy her out. Oh well, I guess that's life.
, I’d suggest remaining in the home. Kids know it, and love it. That’s a plus on the custody side too, and also where the kids want to be. When they are of legal age to decide for themselves is usually around 12, so S14 would likely get to choose.