This post has been months in the making. I tried to join and post two months ago but had technical issues that just magically seemed solved last night. Anyway, wife left for 2 days in the middle of the night at the end of June. It was another 5-6 weeks before I uncovered the affair in early August. I confronted (with proof) but she wouldn’t / still hasn’t stopped the affair. Instead, she lies and hides it then, just as she does now. I snooped on her long enough (a month?) to recognize the habits and now know when she calls or meets up with him even without having to snoop just by her mood and other indicators. The snooping wore me down and I couldn’t take it emotionally—what I read/saw was as brutal. Definitely follow the no snooping rule now!
Anyway, it’s been 6 months since first discovery. The affair has been going on for ~8 months. I have read Sandi’s rules and DR and Healing from Infidelity. And several other books. I got an IC in sept. I’ve spent a ton of time reading and watching youtube videos on this and related topics. Have learned a lot. I spent the first 3 weeks in July begging/pleading in ignorance then got better advice online. I have read this board for months now.
Some things I have learned is about that I don’t see discussed as much as I would expect here are attachment types. Have determined that I am anxious preoccupied and she is fearful avoidant. And although we’ve been together 9 years we never left the power struggle phase of our relationship. We were codependent and I have been working a lot on being more independent and detaching.
We still live together and sleep in the same bed. Have one child together, she’s 7. Plus two stepkids she brought into the marriage—now 12 & 17. We slept in separate beds for a few weeks in October but then I set a boundary that if she was gonna stay overnight at OMs place that she couldn’t share the master bed. Recently she asked for an exception to that rule to stay overnight but I reiterated and she hasn’t slept overnight with him since then (at least while I am home; this may be different when I travel). I don’t know what confuses me more—that she asked or that she respected my boundary when she doesn’t respect the marriage. I am pretty sure they meet up while kids are in school and are intimate, 1-2 times per week. They text and call throughout the day but less now than months ago.
I was hours away from a retainer meeting/paperwork with lawyer in early October but called it off. Out of nowhere she got a job and stopped spending weekends at APs place at that time. I decided to give things more time when I saw those changes. We were getting in arguments around that time but I have since figured out her triggers and how to listen better (still room to improve) and things are actually peaceful at the house. The first three months after BD I was desperate to get her back and have since realized that desire was working against me. In my assessment, I have greatly loosened my grip on the rope but don’t think I’ve fully dropped it. Not sure how I let go that last little bit.
The biggest reason I have stayed over the last 3 months is D7. My wife is so inconsistent and preoccupied with OM that I worry for my daughter. My wife is a stay at home mom but she often leaves to meet OM who lives 90 minutes away in another state. There has been an instance where my wife was not home in time after D7 got off the bus and she went to a neighbors house. W missed open house because she was ‘nursing’ OM after a dental procedure; I rushed home and took D7 with me to open house when I figured it out. There was also an instance where school nurse called to have wife pick up D7 but W was out of state with OM so the 17 yo picked up D7. My work arrangement mostly prevents cell phone access so I didn’t see nurse’s calls until after it was all over. W covered it up. This is bad situation but I also feel like things would be worse if I weren’t as present. I worry that as bad as those things above are that they wouldn’t be enough rationale to grant sole custody in a D. So instead I’ve been detaching, keeping an eye on things, focusing on my daughter, and trying to give what’s left to myself. Like I said above, I’ve figured out how to maintain the peace with W so outside of the mental aspect of rejection it really isn’t that bad.
W has been incredibly unpredictable which has made GAL unreasonably hard. She had weeks where she was gone for the weekends then stopped, got a job then quit after about 5 weeks—each major change takes a month or so to see a pattern and come up with a plan/schedule… then pow it changes. I have been successful starting to run 2-3 times per week and go to dinner with a buddy once every ~3-4 weeks. I get “stuck” in the house because someone has to be home with D7. I made the most of it when I was at home by doing home improvement projects that boost my esteem a bit but they don’t get me interaction with other people. Does this count as GAL at all? Also had sleepovers for D7 and other outings like corn maze and trip to mall when wife was gone those weekends. Really struggling on this front—would appreciate any suggestions.
I was gonna sign up for an athletic class one or two nights a week but W complained that I was already not home enough. I feel guilty for not being home more in the past due to my job so that struck a nerve. I know I shouldn’t let it sway me as much as I do.
Since start of school a few years ago I get D7 ready for school and on the bus … and also do the night routine during the week. It makes for long days. Recently the solo weekend duties and extra housework since W mentally checked out have been especially draining. W ebbs and flows with how much she does. Before affair she was a great mom.
We spent both Halloween and Thanksgiving separately, which was hard. I had D7 both holidays. After Tgiving, W started warming back up and wearing her wedding ring again and after a week I bought in and started thinking things had changed. About three days after I started opening up she flipped back to cold wife and I have been detaching again ever since.
Lastly, yesterday we went to lunch and on the way home she was crying. I asked what was wrong and she said she’s not happy with our situation. She said she keeps waiting for me to change and be more available and connected. The last couple weeks I was detaching and it started feeling like we were roommates to me so I assume she got a similar vibe. It seems like that’s what I’m supposed to do based on the guidance here. It certainly makes ME feel less volatile and more secure/stable. But she says she wants the opposite (more contact, fawning, etc) even now. Am I doing the right thing? Is she just trying to control me? What am I supposed to say/do when she directly asks for more but I’m throttling back?
Thanks to anyone who took the time to read all this. And double thanks for any response.
(I’ll save discussion of stepkids for later post since this is already too long.)
Quick response to your question because I have to run. If she is still in contact with OM she doesn’t not want nor is capable of reconnecting with you. Also, you can not give too much space nor GAL too much.
7knots, sorry you are here and going through this, but I am glad you found the forum and have been reading and learning.
Originally Posted by 7knots
This post has been months in the making. I tried to join and post two months ago but had technical issues that just magically seemed solved last night. Anyway, wife left for 2 days in the middle of the night at the end of June. It was another 5-6 weeks before I uncovered the affair in early August. I confronted (with proof) but she wouldn’t / still hasn’t stopped the affair. Instead, she lies and hides it then, just as she does now. I snooped on her long enough (a month?) to recognize the habits and now know when she calls or meets up with him even without having to snoop just by her mood and other indicators. The snooping wore me down and I couldn’t take it emotionally—what I read/saw was as brutal. Definitely follow the no snooping rule now!
Cautionary tale here for sure. You cannot unsee what you see. Which is why snooping is so dangerous. Most LBS that snoop and find things they don't want to find are then hurt for a longtime. Seeing it rarely makes them want to stop trying to save the marriage, so it is really better just to not snoop. If you have suspicions, doing some investigation to either prove or disprove it is fine, but once you know what you need to know, stopping all snooping is advisable. This is coming from a serial snooper!
Originally Posted by 7knots
Anyway, it’s been 6 months since first discovery. The affair has been going on for ~8 months. I have read Sandi’s rules and DR and Healing from Infidelity. And several other books. I got an IC in sept. I’ve spent a ton of time reading and watching youtube videos on this and related topics. Have learned a lot. I spent the first 3 weeks in July begging/pleading in ignorance then got better advice online. I have read this board for months now.
Some things I have learned is about that I don’t see discussed as much as I would expect here are attachment types. Have determined that I am anxious preoccupied and she is fearful avoidant. And although we’ve been together 9 years we never left the power struggle phase of our relationship. We were codependent and I have been working a lot on being more independent and detaching.
I don't think it is discussed much here because it doesn't change anything. As you finish this section with, detachment is the answer, regardless of attachment types. Most LBS that find themselves here are some type of anxious attachment type. The key is to not be so tied up in any one person in life that you cannot move forward without them. I often tell people that we live in an imperfect world, full of disease, accident and death. Being overly attached is never healthy.
Originally Posted by 7knots
We still live together and sleep in the same bed. Have one child together, she’s 7. Plus two stepkids she brought into the marriage—now 12 & 17. We slept in separate beds for a few weeks in October but then I set a boundary that if she was gonna stay overnight at OMs place that she couldn’t share the master bed. Recently she asked for an exception to that rule to stay overnight but I reiterated and she hasn’t slept overnight with him since then (at least while I am home; this may be different when I travel). I don’t know what confuses me more—that she asked or that she respected my boundary when she doesn’t respect the marriage. I am pretty sure they meet up while kids are in school and are intimate, 1-2 times per week. They text and call throughout the day but less now than months ago.
Wait, she is actively cheating on you but is still in the master bed IF she doesn't stay the night at OMs place. Huh? That isn't much of a boundary. "If you stay over at OM's house, you can't sleep in the marital bed." That's interesting since she is sleeping elsewhere in that case anyway!
Here is the deal: Do not share the marital bed with a cheater. Ever. Lying and cheating mostly stems from a lack of respect. She cannot respect you if you allow her to stay in the MBR EVEN though she is sleeping with someone else. Kick her out tonight. Move her stuff out of the MBR, make it clear she is no longer welcome in the MBR as long as the affair is active. Start commanding respect!
Originally Posted by 7knots
I was hours away from a retainer meeting/paperwork with lawyer in early October but called it off. Out of nowhere she got a job and stopped spending weekends at APs place at that time. I decided to give things more time when I saw those changes. We were getting in arguments around that time but I have since figured out her triggers and how to listen better (still room to improve) and things are actually peaceful at the house. The first three months after BD I was desperate to get her back and have since realized that desire was working against me. In my assessment, I have greatly loosened my grip on the rope but don’t think I’ve fully dropped it. Not sure how I let go that last little bit.
Continued…
SO what was the purpose of the retainer and paperwork? Was it to manipulate her back to the marriage? Because if so that never ever works. We have a saying around here: When they want to come back to the marriage you will know. When they don't, you will be confused.
You drop the rope by dropping the rope. The affair is months old, shows no sign of stopping anytime soon. So what are you holding onto? A lying cheater is what. Get back to working with the lawyer if you realize you cannot stay married to a lying cheater. But do not do it to get her to stop the affair or to come back to the marriage because that never works.
Originally Posted by 7knots
The biggest reason I have stayed over the last 3 months is D7. My wife is so inconsistent and preoccupied with OM that I worry for my daughter. My wife is a stay at home mom but she often leaves to meet OM who lives 90 minutes away in another state. There has been an instance where my wife was not home in time after D7 got off the bus and she went to a neighbors house. W missed open house because she was ‘nursing’ OM after a dental procedure; I rushed home and took D7 with me to open house when I figured it out. There was also an instance where school nurse called to have wife pick up D7 but W was out of state with OM so the 17 yo picked up D7. My work arrangement mostly prevents cell phone access so I didn’t see nurse’s calls until after it was all over. W covered it up. This is bad situation but I also feel like things would be worse if I weren’t as present. I worry that as bad as those things above are that they wouldn’t be enough rationale to grant sole custody in a D. So instead I’ve been detaching, keeping an eye on things, focusing on my daughter, and trying to give what’s left to myself. Like I said above, I’ve figured out how to maintain the peace with W so outside of the mental aspect of rejection it really isn’t that bad.
Yes you should not leave. Partly for your D7, but mostly because she is the one leaving the marriage, she should be the one to leave the home, not you. Just like you should stay in the MBR and kick her out of it. She is the one sleeping with another person, not you.
As far as custody, this is why you work with a lawyer. It sounds like you know where this is headed, but you are hoping for a miracle. We have another saying around here: hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Your W is a disrespectful WW. WWs do not care about anyone but themselves. Not their LBH, not their kids, not even the OM! They are the most selfish beings on planer Earth. So yes, get back to working with the lawyer and document document document everything. You may not get full custody. But you should be shooting at least for half custody. And if she is as selfish as she sounds she may even give up custody post-D to go after he WW lifestyle fulltime.
Originally Posted by 7knots
W has been incredibly unpredictable which has made GAL unreasonably hard. She had weeks where she was gone for the weekends then stopped, got a job then quit after about 5 weeks—each major change takes a month or so to see a pattern and come up with a plan/schedule… then pow it changes. I have been successful starting to run 2-3 times per week and go to dinner with a buddy once every ~3-4 weeks. I get “stuck” in the house because someone has to be home with D7. I made the most of it when I was at home by doing home improvement projects that boost my esteem a bit but they don’t get me interaction with other people. Does this count as GAL at all? Also had sleepovers for D7 and other outings like corn maze and trip to mall when wife was gone those weekends. Really struggling on this front—would appreciate any suggestions.
The LBSs that struggle the most are the ones that make the most excuses about GAL. Remember, GAL, at its core, is remaining busy. So being a dad IS GAL. But regardless, even if you were in a healthy, happy marriage, you would need time to be a couple. So getting a babysitter is AOK. Do not use your kids as an excuse to not GAL. Plus you have step kids in the house. Why can they not babysit when you need to go hang out with friends, participate in hobbies, etc?
So you are GAL, but you can do better. Get a sitter sometimes to hang out with friends, etc. But keep up the home projects and doing thing with D7 too! It is all GAL!
Originally Posted by 7knots
I was gonna sign up for an athletic class one or two nights a week but W complained that I was already not home enough. I feel guilty for not being home more in the past due to my job so that struck a nerve. I know I shouldn’t let it sway me as much as I do.
This is a lack of respect on her part that you allowed to direct your behavior. 7 that is not good. You need to stand up for yourself. There is nothing wrong with a SIK working father to take time for themselves! She was afraid this would affect her ability to come and go as she liked, and you allowed her to dictate that. Go sign up for those classes. Tell her she needs to cover childcare during those nights. Start taking back some of your masculinity here!
Originally Posted by 7knots
Since start of school a few years ago I get D7 ready for school and on the bus … and also do the night routine during the week. It makes for long days. Recently the solo weekend duties and extra housework since W mentally checked out have been especially draining. W ebbs and flows with how much she does. Before affair she was a great mom.
Continued…
Hire a maid. Use Instacart for grocery shop. Shift!
Also, work with your lawyer to set up a custody schedule! She should be handling school and child duties. If she balks, you document it. If she flakes on her days and nights, you document it. You are interested in full custody so give her enough rope to hang herself! A good lawyer will be able to help you with this.
Originally Posted by 7knots
We spent both Halloween and Thanksgiving separately, which was hard. I had D7 both holidays. After Tgiving, W started warming back up and wearing her wedding ring again and after a week I bought in and started thinking things had changed. About three days after I started opening up she flipped back to cold wife and I have been detaching again ever since.
More opportunity to document! She is choosing to spend holidays with OM over her own child. Document it!
As far as her warming back up, you fell right into her trap by buying in. What you told her is that all she has to do is put on her wedding right, show a little interest, and 7knots is right back on the hook! We see WWs do this all the time, especially as the LBH starts to embrace the D, emotionally detach, and move forward with their own life! The WW then temp checks to see how far gone the LBH is. Buying in shows her all she needs to know, and once she feels secure that you are still there squarely as plan B, she goes back to her wayward ways.
Don't beat yourself up over this, rather learn from it. Next time she warms up and wears her ring again, just keep doing what you had been doing. Do what got you there. No matter what she does or doesn't do. Remember, DBing is for you, not for her or the marriage. Save yourself! Sometimes the marriage comes along for the ride. Sometimes it doesn't. The key is that GAL, 180s and detachment mean you are going to move forward with your own life, happy and healthy!
Originally Posted by 7knots
Lastly, yesterday we went to lunch and on the way home she was crying. I asked what was wrong and she said she’s not happy with our situation. She said she keeps waiting for me to change and be more available and connected. The last couple weeks I was detaching and it started feeling like we were roommates to me so I assume she got a similar vibe. It seems like that’s what I’m supposed to do based on the guidance here. It certainly makes ME feel less volatile and more secure/stable. But she says she wants the opposite (more contact, fawning, etc) even now. Am I doing the right thing? Is she just trying to control me? What am I supposed to say/do when she directly asks for more but I’m throttling back?
My first reaction to this is LOL. Not because your situation is funny, but because this is typical WW cake eating. "I am going to go out, do whatever, I want, sleep with OM, but I want you to behave the way I want you to behave!"
Her crying is crocodile tears. The is manipulating you to try to keep you on the hook until she is sure plan A is secure. WWs know that most OM just want sex. They know that most OM will bolt the minute the WW goes to them and says "my marriage is over, let's be together fulltime!" So she is feeling the loss of control over you and she isn't ready for it.
"Am I doing the right thing?" YES!
"Is she just trying to control me?" YES!
"What am I supposed to say/do when she directly asks for more but I'm throttling back?" You say: "I refuse to have more contact and fawning with a lying cheater." Then you keep GAL, 180ing, detaching! Go back and read my previous section: do what got you there!
Originally Posted by 7knots
Thanks to anyone who took the time to read all this. And double thanks for any response.
(I’ll save discussion of stepkids for later post since this is already too long.)
7knots, you are doing a lot right here, but like the rest of us have made mistakes. Just clean up those mistakes, find your self-worth, and realize you deserve better than a lying, cheating WW!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I am so sorry that you find yourself here, but you will discover that we have some wonderful and wise people posting that will listen and offer advice. I am pasting in Cadet's Welcome thread. Please take some time and read all of the links. You may find some info in the links that will be helpful to you.
Welcome to the board.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by Michele Weiner-Davis. The following link is the first chapter:
Once your registration to the site has been completed you can post and start a thread. Please have only one thread active at a time (per forum); it keeps your situation organized and is easier for those following along and posting to you. There are a few forums which help categorize posters’ situations.
When your thread reaches 100 posts, it will be time for you to start a new thread. It is a good idea to link your old thread to your new one, and even link the new one back to the previous one. That makes it easier for the folks following your story. (There is a help thread on linking in the sticky threads at the top section of the forum’s display.) A moderator will “close” your full thread which prevents further posting to it. It is still available to read.
Post in small frequent replies on your thread. Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity can be very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Post on other people’s thread to give support.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Your H or W is giving you a GIFT. THE GIFT OF TIME. USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
You absolutely should not be sleeping in the same bed as a cheat.
You’re enabling her behaviour.
She knows there’s zero consequences. She has zero respect for you.
There’s no motivation to save her marriage, because she knows she can bang another guy and has her soft safety net at home waiting, just in case she changes her mind. You might as well give her a big green traffic light and written permission.
My advice is this (don’t TELL her you’re going to do this or use it as a threat, just do it unannounced):
1. Next time she goes to OM’s house, change the locks 2. Text her that she’s disrespected your marriage and you’ll no longer accept it 3. Advise her she needs to find somewhere else to stay immediately 4. Tell her removalists will drop her belongings upon providing an address 5. Tell her if she has any questions, she needs to send them via your lawyer.
Women NEVER reconcile with men they don’t respect.
She will either a) dump OM and get her sh*t together (and you’ll know it because she will beg for you back) or b) she will choose to stay with OM - in which case she’s a piece of trash and you’re better off without her.
Hey 7Knots - I am glad you found your way to this community. Boat, Kind, and Steve are all offering you very sound advice. You are doing many things well. Having some doubts is common too and happens to most of us.
Regarding OM, you have set up some boundaries and, to me, you would do well to tighten them up. I recommend something like "As long as OM is involved, I will not 1) share a bed 2) be more available/connected 3) FILL IN THE BLANK(S)". Note that I did not use the word "you" in reference to her. You can only control yourself. Using the word "you" with a spouse who is wayward, in a MLC, experiencing mental health issues, etc. can be like pulling a trigger that is likely to elicit negative responses. The bottom line is that until these behaviors stop, you are unavailable as a H. Be an acquaintance, offer the basic courtesies you would to one, and focus on doing what you can to (as the beer commercials used to say) be the world's most interesting man.
The boundary may include something like "I will not be a solo parent and need a partner who will respect their child(ren) to be a present, loving parent". As noted earlier in this thread, especially if you're in a "fault" divorce state instead of a no-fault state, document, document, document. Keep texts, emails, etc. in case you need them to help you with custody later. Talk with your L to confirm what is best because I am not one!
As far as DBing, you likely read that this will be a long process, will get worse before better, and prepare for either outcome 1) piecing and a long reconciliation or 2) divorce. It stinks. Some of us tilt more towards 1 or 2. I'm with MWD: if it can be saved, marriage should (unless there is abuse, drug use, and so forth as noted in DB and/or DR). You shouldn't stay together just for the kids. Kids should be one of many important reasons people work to maintain a healthy marriage. I also recognize that there comes a point for each of us when D is the best course of action. We each need to arrive there are own way. I wish you good luck, sustained support, and the best holidays possible under your circumstances.
Thanks Steve - I think I’m starting to see what you’re saying about things that matter vs things that don’t. Previously, I spent a lot of time reading about R and why W and myself are what we are but i see your point that it doesn’t really change path forward. I saw you mention self differentiation in another thread and read it and just the viewpoint kind of smacked me more awake.
Took the time to document the larger neglectful events over the past 4 months in terms of the kids. I knew I needed to do it for a while; committing those events to permanence was quite sad and painful. Glad the worst of it is over (at least until when/if I have to use the info). Thanks for the kick in the pants!
Had a disappointing (but acceptable and not depressing) xmas; I think I needed to see how much things had deteriorated. And it was nice to have the whole family together for a holiday, even if it was bittersweet after the last two holidays were separate. I need to spend some time reflecting on xmas vs thanksgiving and figure out some takeaways. I feel like some reflection will be helpful. I found myself losing interest in W the last couple days. Potentially more to come on this front but I’ve had stretches like this before and emotionally yo-yo’d back so I want to give it a few days.
After the lunch interaction Friday I found myself significantly impacted for about 6 hours but within 24 I was pretty much back to where I was before emotionally. So I definitely have more work to do on becoming an ‘unaffected man.’ She still pulls strings as evidenced by this exchange and I notice they still have an effect but a lot less and shorter lasting than in the past. This is an area I really don’t want to backslide on so really focusing on it.
Thanks Boat for the feedback on never too much space. Each day since that exchange she’s made a comment along these lines—too much space. She was gone all day Saturday shopping so I was on kid duty. I was out Sunday shopping for extra/last gifts (mostly just wanted to be out of the house/GAL since she was home) and she called me a couple times to ask where I was and say she wished I wasn’t out buying her stuff and was home to help her. I deflected with a bit of (true) humor—said “don’t worry, only getting you a pair of socks; everything else is for the kids.” I had already told her most of the shopping was done, just grabbing last few items. And for clarity, I got her a couple other things because I feel like xmas is a time of acceptance and forgiving—a core personal value, not a flashy gift scenario.
Then on xmas day I was reading in the sunroom around 2p and she called from kitchen, “what are you doing? I’m in here all by myself (implying I should be in there).” I had done stuff all morning and was secure in relaxing for a bit. She didn’t used to be so petty about it. I bring these exchanges up just to make sure I’m not putting a sour note in a good song.
Anyway, wife left for 2 days in the middle of the night at the end of June. It was another 5-6 weeks before I uncovered the affair in early August. I confronted (with proof) but she wouldn’t / still hasn’t stopped the affair. Instead, she lies and hides it then, just as she does now. I snooped on her long enough (a month?) to recognize the habits and now know when she calls or meets up with him even without having to snoop just by her mood and other indicators. The snooping wore me down and I couldn’t take it emotionally—what I read/saw was as brutal. Definitely follow the no snooping rule now!
