Misconceptions of MLC

[FriendlyOneDuh]

Meh. Mine wanted to take up pot smoking, move to New Zealand, and sleep with a 55 year old Iranian.

Gee, guess that is the edge, right?

bleh

J

[always_14]

Good God.

Yeah, F1...I think that's the edge..OF THE WORLD.

[Rollercoasterider]

Based on what I have seen of MLC, people who go through this, or are in it do not and will not apologize for thier actions.

Are you saying of ALL MLCers--both returners and those who do not return?

I have received apologies. But for me the actions are more important than apologetic words.

What have you seen Braveheart...and what I am really getting at is TIME. Apologies don't come for a long time and are probably (don't know) rarer for nonreturners. Could it be that you haven't been around long enough? Oh sure, you've read the threads of stories that have been going on, so maybe that is what you mean. But I do think that apologies, if they come, are well into reconiliation and those posters seem les likely to be here...and are instead out 'there' working on reconciling. Don't know...just a thought.


Maybe instead of focusing on whether they will or will not give a verbal apology we, the LBSs need to release the need for it.

And also recongize that verbal aplogies don't always come with the words "I'm sorry." they may be a validation of what we, the LBS, has done through the crisis. Or a removal of blame/ admitting personal responsibility.

So I guess, how do we define apology?

Another misconception is that people in MLC will run and party for a few months and be back home.

Yup SIGH

And so many of us are trying not to put that belief out there. It is the dream that if it must happen--make it fast. So I guess it makes sense. We just repeat to newbies that it doesn't work that way...and everyone must learn it for themselves. SIGH

One thing that I have seen that is pretty consistent, once the LBS does decide to say to hell with the MLCer and move on, you have a decent chance of them trying to reconnect.

And yet it is so hard to believe in that...the if you love something let it go. Happy_Again and AmyC both have confirmed it.
So many are afraid to take that risk and thus they lose the marriage--Oh, they gain themselves but it would be nice to gain ourselves and keep the marriage.

I do belive it is true also...BUT what about those posters (LBSs) who have truly moved on and their spouses are still gone. I think maybe it's that they won't take them back.

I don't think that Laughing and MTN are still holding on...but they don't want them back. So it's one of those speculation questions that we cannot truly answer...were they still Standing, but not holding on, would their spouses return--or at least attempt a return?

Don't know, can't know, won't know.

I am not convinced that the MLC is trying to reconnect, unless they are genuinely sorry for thier actions.

I agree. I would probably say until instead of unless...but that's me. I also think that multiple premature attempts may be common, maybe it's because I lved it...but I don't thinkI'm the only one, there seem to be plenty cases like that.

If you have an MLCer who says they are "sorry", but blames you for "not fighting for us" or "wanting to get divorced" I've got news for ya, he or she ain't woke up yet! LOL They are still blaming you for everything! They are blaming you for THEM being in this shape!

I don't know about that. I guess it depends on the degree of the blaming--it makes sense if the MLCer is angry for the LBS not Standing and preventing.

Sweetheart gives me credit for all of that and almost always blamed himself and not me. BUT, the other day he did say that I could have stopped him and I could have said No...to a few different things. I said I tried--that was those first few begging and clinging weeks. I just told him it was his choice and he needed to do it and was going to do it anyway. He doesn't remember a lot of what he said and did. AmyC has talked about the memory voids. Maybe he doesn't know that I couldn't have stopped it because he doesn't recall the degree...doesn't recall just what he was really doing. He always wanted someone else to decide his actions...clearly, we're still working on that issue.
But couldn't it also be that now in a state where he wants to be at home he doesn't understand the state he was in before...and since I could say No now and stop him--he's told me I'm stuck with him cause he's not going anywhere--he may not comprehend how it was not possible before.

The only MLCer that I have seen on this board who is truly sorry and has begged for her LBS back is AMYC

What about Happy_Again/Finally_Free? I know you're familiar with him. Waht about MGoBlue...you've posted toe ach other, but maybe since his situation was old you didn't know the history?? And I guess you weren't around when Bruce was posting...but give Happy_Again some credit--he's awesome! That was actually my biggest issue with your post--you left out one of my favourite posters!

It is so important to us to have someone tell us how sorry they are and how much they miss us when we have been hurt and wronged so badly, when we don;t hear it, its a double stab to our soul. I think that is what really prevents reconnection.

Could be...but then isn't that our problem. Happy_Again said it is vital that the LBS make the MLCer feel safe. Sure, we can hope for an apology...I love Hope! But should we expect it? (maybe he answer is yes, just asking) Isn't it something like feeling owed--he owes us. And maybe he does...but if we go into it with that attitude we are probabyl harboring negative energy and not being the safe place.

Thanks for the thought food Braveheart,
HUGS,
RCR

[braveheart]

RCR, I am a very big fan of yours! I just love your posts! You are always so very logical in your comments, its very tough to argue with you, or disagree! With that being said, let me say some things about your comments. Apologies are SO IMPORTANT to people, believe me when I tell you this, I work with the public daily and in situations that can escallate very quickly. An apology relaxes people and helps to lower thier guard, even if you are not in the wrong. With that being said, I definately think that the offending party, the MLCer, definately owes an apology. What you said about them maybe doing it or not, that is a different matter and yes you are right, you shouldn't expect it. I personnally don't think they should accept or entertain the thoughts of reconsilliation until that is done, I still think there will be problems on down the road. I agree that time is probably key here, I think in time they are sorry for what they have done. When you talk about reconnection, you use the word UNTIL, I admire your optimism, but with that being said, I do think there are many out there who do not attempt to reconsile, even with the best DBing efforts, for whatever reason.
As for what I have seen with MLC, well I guess that I am a two time vet! LOL My father went through one when I was a kid and took off and left us high and dry, I can remmber us having to move, because he quit his job, or got fired, and spent the next couple of years chasing after his "soulmate" and my family suffered a great deal as a result. "still trying to get over that one, this only adds fuel to the fire" I see some differences and simillarities between my XW and my father, same crazy ideas, chasing after what doesn't exist, feeling that what they are doing is not wrong. I have seen a LOT of MLC behaviour in my life RCR, more that I wish upon anyone. With that being said, I do realize that every situation is different. As for what I have seen with MLCers sorry for what they have done, well, in hindsight I did overlook the before mention 2 posters, sorry about that! I guess that AMYC is the only one that I have seen that has truly went after her husband, which brings me to this point; I am not convinced that "providing a safe place" is always the best way to go with an MLCer. Case in point; AMYC's husband has not provided her with "a safe place" in fact, he has argued with her many times against reconsiliation. ( Not to take anything away from your progress in the situation AMY) I feel its different with men, I think that a woman that goes through this seriously damages her hubands pride and ego, BIG WORDS for men, take it from me! I think the woman MLCer must give the "stick" back to her man, (AMY, you are doing that, slowly, but surely) I think the woman must provide the "safe place" for the male MLCer, as I think its important for him to feel loved and reassure him that he won't be ridiculed or judged for the things he has done. Again, just a little ol opinion from me! Great post RCR!!!

[always_14]

Not that I know ANYTHING about reconnecting or reconciliation, nor will I...but...

I think it's important for both parties to give safety and the stick to each other.

Most of all, it's important for each person to give that feeling of safety to themselves.

[braveheart]

Always_14, I agree with you about the safety factor, it sure is important that both people feel safe in any relationship. I do believe though that its important for the man to feel like a man. I will argue that any woman that doesn't give a man that respect is going to struggle in relationships.

[always_14]

Braveheart,

I agree with what you are saying, with one addition. It is important for a HEALTHY, SECURE man to feel like a man.

I think in my case, and in many other male MLCers here, you have very insecure, unhealthy men, wanting to feel like men, and going about it in all the wrong ways.

Then, I see men like you, Frank_D, FIB, Don, Jeff, W2S, and so many other wonderful men here that are REAL strong, secure, incredible men. We have to admit, there is a HUGE chasm between the level of security in all the LBS men here and the returning MLC men. You are men who fight for the M even in the face of rejection. Yet, the returning MLC man needs to be coddled to return. I am not saying we should not do that, just that recognizing the difference in men here....same goes for the women. I see the same thnig with the LBS women and MLC women. The LBS women are forced to be on their own and manage and do a great job, all the while supporting another...while many of the MLC women "want" their freedom, but all too often are scared to reallly go out and make a living, be on their own - that reality is usually their point of return.

Regarding the MLC men. I think it IS important to give them the gender respect. During MLC, it's a flipped situation. On one hand, the male MLCer wants to be treated like the man. On the other hand, I am starting to believe they do what they do (abandon, mistreat, etc), b/c they deep down KNOW that they are dealing with strong women, and take advantage of that fact.

Just my 2 cents regarding gender roles and MLC. Basically MLC is a time when someone who has a lot of issues wanting independence, freedom, desire from others, wanting to be wanted...goes about it in all the wrong ways, instead of earning those things.

[braveheart]

Always, nice post! I would like to add that its very important for anyone to feel healthy and secure, no matter the situation. I man that has been left by an MLC female has a lot of questions and doubts about himself. Its very natural to feel this way, as does a woman who has a MLC husband. We have to recognize that the MLCer has the problem, and until they get it resolved, it won't change. Tough to accept that though, its human nature to want to fix things!

[Rollercoasterider]

Always and Braveheart...interesting discussion!

Thanks Braveheart for pointing out the healthful and postiive--relaxation etc--benefits of an apology. I do think they are important...but as we say about everything else...expect nothing. An apology may not come at the point when we think it shouold....perhaps not at that magic moment when out of the blue we get a phone call from the MLCer saying he made a mistake and wants to be back with us.

That may be the first sign. Just the start. Sometimes that is when the apology arrives. But there may be some MLCers who then need a somewhat positive response (not yes, but not so negative such as who the he11 do you think you are after what you did to me...) to stick there head out a bit farther. They need to assure themselves it will be safe. If the LBS is too excited...they may get scared. Possibly because they really aren't ready...but who is, they may be ready to start slowly and don't want the pressure of the LBS's excitement.

We don't get a healthy spouse back. Always pointed it out when she compared our MLCers to you guys on the board--and she forgot Simon!! Papa Smurf is a great guy! Returners come back broken...but hopefuly ready to begin the process of fixing themselves and with us, the relationship.

And sadly many don't attempt returns even amidst great DB'ing. We cannot say why some do and some do not...wow, if I could I'd be rich!

Thanks for giving your family history. I wasn't implying you didn't have expereince...just wanting to know what it was. It shows your perspoective which is helpful.

AmyC is the only one who went after her husband because Happy_Again's wife was still standing...so he didn't have to go after her. As for M Go BLue...he went through his MLC before the board and later DB'd through his wife's MLC.

I am not convinced that "providing a safe place" is always the best way to go with an MLCer. Case in point; AMYC's husband has not provided her with "a safe place" in fact, he has argued with her many times against reconsiliation.

Ah yes--Amy correct me if I'm wrong--but Amy's husband isn't/wasn't an MLCer. He stood strong for a couple of years. It seems that his arguments against reconciliation came after he sat down. What if the following poster's MLCers suddenyl called them up and wanted back and then began DB'ing
Laughing
MTN
MEA
They may have made a safe place...while Standing...but they don't want them back anymore. Amy is the MLCer and she flipped that tables.

I think that a safe place is important for both MLC genders, but do agree that it is especially so for males...but then that is the type I am more expereinced with.

Okay, that's my response. I hope you don't mind, but I'm not running a thread right now...so here's a little hijack.

I'm fine, happy etc. BUT my foot is having complications. The soft cast was ontoo tigh which caused a bilister (more like a boil) to form on my heel once the pressure was released. It was freaky big. I went to work Friday, but decided to return to the Dr on Sunday. No work, no boot--because I couldn't fit my foot in, no weight.
I returned today for a different Dr to check it. He deflated it and wrapped it. more X-rays...the break is not healin properly or as expected. So, the blister is now an open petri dish attached to my Achilles--but if I didn't have agiant wrap around it I could fit in the boot...but poor healing means still no weight. So tomorrow he will check my petri dish again. I don't know what then. No work? I think I'm supposed to just stop and go on some bedrest. He references surgery--didn't say I would need it...but said somteimes people need surgery for this...close enough.
So...
I'm going to take a board break for a few weeks. Sweetheart go REALLY sick in the middle of this and I've been hopping everywhere, cooking, sweeping, dishes...taking care of him instead of resting. So I need to stop. Okay...my Mom told me I need to stop. She recommended I take a board retreat and keep up the writing--which is coming along nicely, thank you very much.

I love you guys and will see you in a few weeks...
I can do this!! Haven't done it before. But to stick to it, no reading the board either.

It so hard. I love everyone here!
Okay, I'm going...really.

HUGS,
RCR

[MidwesternGirl]

Good post, RCR!

Over the last 18 months, I watched as my cousin's H was having an affair and she was devastated and advised me to not allow my H into my home or around any of us until be broke it off with OW.

I said I could not do that but she did it with her H.

Then a few times, her H wanted to return home and once again, she put him down with insults, and said to prove to them that OW is gone, and she still would not allow him into the house.

They are going thru a nasty divorce and to this day, she is very nasty toward him and sometimes for no reason.

I am so glad I did not follow her advice.

I truly believe that we must treat the MLCer with kindness, and show that our homes are warm and loving, a place where they ultimately want to come back to.

My cousin is so bitter and regrets her actions but she continues like that and is so unhappy. I feel bad for her but she insisted her way was the way to go. In the end, it was not.

A little bit of kindness really does go a long way.