Wasn't sure what to call this thread, so I just called it the phase I think I'm going through.
I've been reading the book Rebuilding by Fisher. Chapter 12 is called Transition and it has been really interesting. Something in it really resonated with me. It is basically about how someone transitions into adulthood. It talks a lot about how specifically some individuals are still going through that process in older years and when they live with someone who is more a parenting type, they rebel and go through that phase as an older person and the stages of that rebellion in order to create their individuality. Unfortunately they often push away their partner in the process because they blame them. It reminded me a lot of my relationship. The book Crazy Times too talks about too how a lot of affairs and marriage problems occur in relationships that have this dynamic. I think my husband and I had that dynamic. I don't think it was either of our faults, and I think you are often drawn to people the fulfill that need for you (maybe him needing someone more responsible and me needing someone less so in order to maintain the perfectionist/controlling factors in my life). At any rate, it is a dynamic that can be changed once recognized but it is one that can lead to this rebelling pattern that we see in many walk away spouses. Not saying that is the case for all walk away spouses, but I do think it sounded really fitting for my relationship.
If that "transition" period is fitting of what my H and I are going through, then the cool thing about it is that we are both growing up and gaining our individual identities through all of this and actually this process is about us both growing into adults. That is kind of exciting in a weird way. Out of fear, shock, and everything else, I have tried to control what happened in the last year, didn't give H space always, etc and I was making his actions about me and taking them personally (totally normal given the anger, pain, hurt, etc.). What would have been better would be to back off and realize that what he was/is doing was just where he's at right now, and that isn't really about me, but about him transiting and finding himself. If he comes out of that, it is pretty cool because it will mean he's grown into the man he wants to be. That man might not be someone I want to be with or that process may take years, and he may not continue his marriage during it, but either way, I do accept that it is a process and interesting. The scary part maybe right now is he seems stuck in the rebelling externally phase rather than the internal phase where you start to look at yourself and stop blaming others or acting out on others.
I recognize too, lately, that I am taking a lot of the "blame" for our marriage falling apart. It's hard when you are introspecting on it all and realizing what you did wrong, because the other person isn't doing the same (at least with you verbally) so you often seem to be taking the larger responsibility. I do really see it though as us both making mistakes, together, having a dynamic that needed tweaking, but in the end, I know he is the one that walked away and didn't come back to the table and that isn't about me. Both people have to be willing to look at themselves and the marriage and come back to working on it and in their time frame.
Just got a call from a college friend. She is having a baby this week, her 4th. Crazy how someone my age is on their 4th and I haven't begun and crazy to hear her talk about it. The grass is always greener... here I was thinking how grateful she should be for her blessings of 4 kids, and she was talking about how she can't believe she is going through the baby phase again and how she wanted to be there a year ago rather than now so the kids were closer in age since now the older ones are more self sufficient, yada yada yada. Just makes you realize again to appreciate what you have in your life. Everyone has dreams and desires and time frames they want things in. Life doesn't work that way. Need to have faith, appreciate, and live.
Got a call from a guy on my v-ball team. The other team, I used to play on, is going out tonight for drinks so they invited me with. I have class but I'm going to join them after that. I'm excited about that. I really like these people on my v-ball team and truly enjoy hanging out with them. I feel so blessed by all the friends I've made in the past few months. That is a definite area of growth for me. I used to be so succluded and dependant on my friendship with my husband and when that was taken away, I felt really alone but found quickly that I wasn't or wouldn't be alone. I make my life what it is.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
Nice stuff dana, some of what you have written should give you some pretty good peace. That is great.
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Everyone has dreams and desires and time frames they want things in. Life doesn't work that way. Need to have faith, appreciate, and live.
So true. Someone told me recently that God sent her on a path that she didn't think she was going to be taking and she said to him "but God, this isn't the plan I had for my life" then got a chuckle out of the fact that God was probably ROFL. Live in the minute. Fo sho.
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I felt really alone but found quickly that I wasn't or wouldn't be alone. I make my life what it is.
You girl draw people to you. You're finding that. Love you lots. Your light is awesome and people are lucky to know you. That is why the old vball team is tracking you down. Because you're AWESOME!!! Have lots of fun!
Thanks Julie. So true about the plan for life... roll with it, make it great.
You know what is cool? I have heard this a lot lately "You girl draw people to you." So, I am starting to really believe that and become that person too because it is being noticed and complimented. That is a good thing. I want to be that person.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
galing that is very interesting about that dynamic and the rebellion. I will have to pick up the books you mention as it does sound a bit like H and I. I just realize too that you and I also have the same amoutn of years in the R and M...small world huh.
I know what you mean about having friends that are in such a different stage. One of the girls I grew up with just had her 2nd child and another has three already. I have my pets but right now with the situation I'm not certain if or when I'll ever be at the stage of having children.
That is fantastic that you are making friends from the v-ball team.
Me: 31; H: 30 Together 11y; M 8y H left: 2/1/07 My Thread 1st Thread
Your words from those two books have described my W perfectly.
She's 37 - I've always been the caretaker - she recently bought a motorbike - going through a BIG transition stage.
Unfortunately this DID involve OM - but again I see this as a bandaid thing.
I have actually always GIVEN her her independence (as all her friends / family tell me) - supported every career change / whim / desire - but of course through her eyes at the moment - it doesn't look this way at all!
So what can you do - I'm GAL and watching her ruin hers. But that's her course to run - when she comes out of the tunnel - and she will - I may still be there - I may not...
Was a late night. I went out after class with friends from v-ball. There were about 6 of us (1 new person who was fun). It was a good time but I didn't get home until around 2. One of the girls actually stayed over night because she wanted to be safe and not drive. We got to talking when she was here and she started telling me about her exboyfriend. He slept with her best friend and she got 3 STDs as a result. I am still amazed at how many stupid mistakes people make and how they hurt the people they care about. Yuck yuck yuck. Still freaks me out sometimes regarding my own body, and hoping my H has told me the truth that there wasn't a physical affair, but I'll continue to get tested to make sure I am healthy and okay. Really sad that someone puts you in a position where you have to question that.
Anyway, aside from that conversation, which was good in a sense that I always appreciate when other women open up to me and trust me in that manner, the night was a blast. Laughed a ton! They invited me out dancing on Saturday night so I think I might do that.
I'm going to relax today. Go to the coffee shop and read some books. Tomorrow I'm going to another divorce class. I've gone to a few through a women's organization in town. It helps me feel more prepared should that be the road we go down. On Sunday, H and I are meeting to talk. I've been having conversations with myself regarding responses I might make to various things he could say, just to ensure that I am not 1) making You statements, 2) being true to me, 3) not telling him what he thinks, feels or should, 4) not mind reading 5) not taking it personally and making it about me and 6) just really listening and sitting back and taking it in.
I've realized this during the course of this week. I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WANT. I used to know that I wanted to save this marriage. While I still believe in marriage and myself and my faith, I think I don't know what I want because I based wanting to save my marriage and work on it on the idea that I wanted to be with this man, liked who he was, and knew who he could be. I think I'm now adjusting that to look at who he is right now and accept that and figure out what that means. I think it means, I don't know what I want. It means, I won't know until I get to know him again, see who he is now, and if that is who he is going to remain to be.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
Hey Dana! I LOVE your first post and totally relate to it. I think I may need to pick up that book. Sounds a lot like an MLC description...but perhaps it is more looking at it like a MLTransition. Although your Hs (and my Ws) could be an MLC. Very interesting.
So glad to hear about you getting out and having fun. You SO deserve that. Really, really happy for you right now.
As far as Sunday...I think #6 is the most important on your list. He wanted this conversation...let him control it...you just take it in and if you are unsure on what he means...ask him to explain it more. Very important. Good for you hun!
very interesting reading for me this morning. That book puts a whole other spin on things, that's for sure.
As for your husband, I think you are right in not wanting him for who he is now. Obviously, he isn't behaving like the kind of man you would want. Unless things change, you are right in question just what you want for you and for your life. The kind of people you want in it and surrounding you.
I just went through all of my db posts since I joined the site in fall. It is crazy to look back at the past 8 months and the last year. So many positives have come out of the year but really I was looking back in the journaling to get a sense I guess of patterns. I don't have the energy to post about them right now but I will later. I definitely saw some regarding my behavior and Hs. I'm going to go take a bath and pamper myself some. That was a lot to read.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
I've realized this during the course of this week. I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WANT. I used to know that I wanted to save this marriage. While I still believe in marriage and myself and my faith, I think I don't know what I want because I based wanting to save my marriage and work on it on the idea that I wanted to be with this man, liked who he was, and knew who he could be. I think I'm now adjusting that to look at who he is right now and accept that and figure out what that means. I think it means, I don't know what I want. It means, I won't know until I get to know him again, see who he is now, and if that is who he is going to remain to be.
It is like you took the words right out of my head and wrote them here! I have been feeling the same exact way lately. It can be a scary place to be at times but you seem to have a good handle on it all and of course a great outlook. Good luck with meeting him on Sunday and I hope it is a successful visit with the outcome being whatever is best for you and your M.
So, here are a few things that stuck out to me by reading through my thread:
1) There has been a lot of push/pull going on. It seems like everytime my H has come closer, I've retreated and vice versa. 2) I haven't understood at all what my H has needed or wanted in this process. I often haven't been told and when he did think he told me, I usually didn't understand what he wanted and the message. 3) I had a really hard time not letting his moods and behaviors impact me. 4) There was a time period in January-Feb. where he really started coming towards me. We were spending time together, he was telling me things that bothered him, he said I love you, he was going to IC, and MC. But it was still a very very conflicting time and the words and actions didn't always match and I felt like I was on egg shells non stop and none of my needs were being met. After the months of abuse and the affair, I didn't have it in me to be his friend and not having any needs met. I pulled away when he started to come closer. I did it again just recently when he was ready to try being friends again. However, he also pulled away. As soon as he started to open up to me, he did really hurtful things (like stay out until 4 in the morning and tell me to f off), and then I retreated more. As soon as I started to trust, he seemed to do something drastic to push me away again. And even though he was doing these baby steps it was still a very disrespectful relationship. We did not tell each other where we were spending time, didn't eat meals together, say when we were coming and going, didn't count on one another. We were roomates, but kind of dating half-ass. I think I did the same... as soon as he started to trust me, I would do something stupid like snoop. Fears on both sides I think ruled a lot. 5) There has been a huge control fight through this whole thing. Even when I felt like I took myself out of the control war, then I felt like I was being a doormat. I couldn't seem to try and find a balance between sticking up for myself and not fighting for control, and not being completely disrespected and a door mat. 6) Often it has been after periods of silence that my H has come forward with his thoughts. He is an introvert, I'm an extrovert. When he shares feelings, it seems he wants me to just listen and hear them. When I share feelings, I want someone to have a conversation with me. 7) I have really allowed myself to be disrespected. I love him unconditionally, even when I don't like him, and I've made excuses for his behavior and treatment of me. I've allowed myself to be with him, sexually, etc. at times when it made no sense whatsoever. I'm a bit ashamed of that now looking back. I disrespected myself. I did not treat him to treat me well. Because he seemed sick etc. or because I in my mind was making him to be what I wanted him to be, or believing in him as my H, or as the man I love, I think I dismissed who he was being and allowed myself to spend time and give attention to a man that really didn't deserve that from me and that sent the wrong message.
Anyway, in the end, I'm not sure that these things really matter. What matters is more the other things I've reflected on lately, which is how we got in the mess in the first place so that I don't repeat those behaviors with someone in a future relationship.
Last edited by galing; 06/23/0703:36 AM.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
Anyway, in the end, I'm not sure that these things really matter. What matters is more the other things I've reflected on lately, which is how we got in the mess in the first place so that I don't repeat those behaviors with someone in a future relationship.
Best part of the whole post Dana. Stay strong kiddo and keep that internal mirror working overtime. You really are doing great.
Been thinking this morning about the dbing process and how it can get skewed, I think.
The book Rebuilding talks a lot about loving yourself. How often when we are desperate for love from someone else or desperate for a relationship it is because we aren't loving ourself and whole in ourselves. Having your marriage ripped away from you is a huge blow. Having your spouse have an affair is a huge blow. In the aftermath, rather than loving and respecting ourselves, I think sometimes, we disrespect ourselves. I assume that was not the intention in Michelle's books.
In looking back in how I handled the last year, I think the thing that is sticking out to me the most and the thing I am most ashamed of is that I didn't love myself and respect myself in this process. I wanted my husband and my marriage back so badly, I was so wounded, hurt, in pain, and so beaten down by it all, that I was at times willing to accept that in whatever form it came in. I don't know that Michelle's books were written with the intention of helping people who have a spouse who really isn't mentally stable or is in total MLC, or in the midst of a deep affair, or abusive. Those are extreme cases and the person is often treating you with a lot of disrespect in that process.
I guess my point is, now as I am stepping back, I realize that dbing became very confusing to me. I often wasn't being true to myself and was allowing another person to treat me with disrespect. That is not what dbing is about, I don't think, yet I see if happening often on this site as people discuss how their spouse is treating them and their reactions and actions towards that and the interactions they still allow with their spouse.
So I guess my point is this, regardless of what your spouse is doing, love yourself first. GAL, get your PMA, and do treat your spouse with respect and love, but also treat yourself in the same manner and don't allow yourself to be treated disrespectfully or unlovingly. Control you. In the end, you are responsible for loving you, and respecting you. And in the end, you are who you look at in the mirror.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
I wonder if the challenge is this. To truly db and detach, you must love yourself 100% and be completely whole on your own.
I would guess that maybe 2% of the people coming out of an affair, abusive, relationship with a MLC spouse are feeling that way at that time. Many people are not complete and whole at that time and can't handle dbing.
So, I think my advice to new dbers would be this. Take your time. After you find out your spouse has had an affair, realize it for what it is worth, a reflection of them, not you. Get space, get distance, be around people that love you and respect you and not those that are continuing to disrespect you and treat you unlovingly (if your spouse is). Yes, you helped lead to the breakdown of your marriage, but your spouse left your marriage and stepped over that line all on their own and that is about them, not you. Give yourself time to heal and come to terms with it. Give yourself time to realize your part in the breakdown of the marriage. Give yourself time to look at yourself and fix yourself. Stop worrying about the marriage in that moment because you are two broken people that need fixing on your own. The best thing for you BOTH is space. You are desperate because they have left you... but LOVE YOURSELF and give yourself time. It will be the best thing for you and probably your marriage to heal yourself first. Otherwise, you won't be able to 'db' anyway, because you won't be loving yourself and respecting yourself, instead you'll be a doormat and call it dbing.
That's my .02.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
Dana - great post. I can sooo relate to this stuff.
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I wanted my husband and my marriage back so badly, I was so wounded, hurt, in pain, and so beaten down by it all, that I was at times willing to accept that in whatever form it came in
Ditto...
I imagine this is a normal part of the process and I'm glad you're able to notice this and clarify it as that will help others as well. Take care, girl!
Dana-- Sorry it has been so long, but it seems like you have come into some really strong insights.
I am working on exactly what you are writing about: becoming whole on my own. And I do think your point about developmental stages and growing up/rebelling applies to my H, and probably myself.
He has seen the problem in our R for the last 5 years; just about the time my kids were becoming more independent and I could get back to me, my career. I was growing. Is it his turn, now? Surprising that they would rebel against the ones who love them most, when we would be happy to let them/support them! It has been a control thing in our R, but it was all in his head--he thought I knew that I held him down/back. Every now and then, I would even ask him if he had called his friends lately, maybe go out with them, pick up a hobby or volunteer, etc. Maybe because it wasn't his idea? Or he wasn't ready?
You're right, it doesn't matter, as long as we are growing and learning what we want/need for ourselves.
My IC told me this week that, while it may have been appropritate to do so much for H at the beginning, now I have to turn the focus around and get back to me. If my behaviors had really been the biggest obstacle, my changes should have fixed things. They didn't; we're even further apart.
I am just glad that my H has been as respectful as he can be towards me. It certainly isn't every day, but the majority. And as hurtful as it is to be rejected physcially, I think hearing about what you have gone through puts it into perspective. I thought sex might bring some connection, but he doesn't want to without the feelings there. He saved me from that regret.
Anyway, thanks Dana, for sharing all of that to think about, D
I can remember back to not so very long ago when the bomb was dropped and my wife "wanted space" that is was such a total shock and also the fact that "space" or distancing ourselves from each other was so totally and completely the opposite of "working on our relationship" that I couldn't believe that is what she wanted or that it would help in an way, shape or form. We had been living apart for more than a year and had been emotionally drifting apart for years and now she is telling me that she wants MORE of the same in order to figure out if she is going to remain married, how preposterous that was in my paniced and uneducated mind! And even from what I did "know" it seemed like if we had grown apart from the physical distance and the lack of time together and lack of attention to our marriage that spending time together and working on our marriage would be something to improve it. So to have my wife come to me and instead of saying "hey our marriage is in trouble, we need to work on it, we need to spend time together and reconnect, we need to go to MC and figure out some better ways of relating to each other and fulfilling each other's needs for emotional intimacy, physical intimacy, then I'd have been all for it, in fact that is what "made sense" to me. Her asking for even MORE of what got us to the horrible state we where in seemed crazy and would just finish off killing our relationship.
Anyhow that is what my POV was, especially with my wife and where we were at the time, I'd been waiting for more than a year for her to quit her job and move up here with the family to where SHE wanted to live so that just added to the feels of betrayal. Plus here is the person that is my best friend, who I've always worked with and pulled together all these years when trouble or crisis faced up and she is telling me she doesn't want anything to do with me, doesn't want to work together on this problem, it was completely personal in that respect, she wasn't cutting anyone else out of her life, just me, because I was the problem, even if it wasn't 100% me personally it was because I was her husband.
Who knows what the "right" or the "best" way to solve our problems would/could be, maybe pulling together and putting our efforts into our relationship and each other would have be the perfect solution, maybe me giving her all the space she wanted and never pleading or begging would have been the way to have fixed it, I really don't know, because it takes two people it seems like the lowest common denominator is the one that rules the relationship since you can't make one person feel anything they don't want to deal with, so the other person is forced to the same level in the relationship.
I just want to clarify, I'm not just talking about feeling ashamed because I gave myself physically to a man that wasn't being respectful to me. Although for any women considering that, I think I would say this (now that I think I'm out of that emotional cloud and getting healthier): what are your values? For me, before I got married, I had only ever been with one man (my husband) because I did not wish to have sex outside of a loving and committed relationship. For some reason, I decided that because we were still married, we were in that type of relationship and therefore convinced myself that sex with him was okay. But the truth was, it was just sex, and I am not a woman who is okay with just sex. It doesn't fit in my value system and so I didn't love myself by doing something like that. Be true to yourself first.
However, I am talking about giving a part of yourself emotionally as well to someone that is disrespecting you by not loving you, appreciating you, being your friend, speaking to you with respect, etc.
Loving yourself, means at times, as much as you love someone, not letting them treat you. If they cannot treat you with respect, they maybe shouldn't be treating you period.
I guess I've been reading a lot about abandonment lately and what I'm concerned about is many of the phases I went through and I see people going through here are about dealing with that abandonment and maybe they are natural and normal and something we just all have to go through, however, it is important to respect yourself in that process and really be aware of what you are doing and why you are doing it. Love yourself first. Often, we aren't doing that because we are so focused on being abandoned that we are doing everything we can to stop that and fill the need of getting our spouse back.
The book The Journey from Abandonment and Beyond is interesting if anyone is interested. I skimmed a lot of it, but it does describe the phases well.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
"I really don't know, because it takes two people it seems like the lowest common denominator is the one that rules the relationship since you can't make one person feel anything they don't want to deal with, so the other person is forced to the same level in the relationship."
Here I think is the kicker... we feel "forced" or out of control. Because we are abandoned in reality by the spouse leaving the marriage. You have to go through the process and the steps I guess but in the end, no one is forcing us to stay with people who don't want us or don't treat us well. We can say we'll be married to them, and love them, and respect them, but we call also be true to ourselves, our values, and our needs, I think. I think it's just hard, plain and simple. When your spouse leaves, you go through the process, regardless of if they come back or not. Maybe the more we can educate ourselves on that process though, the better off we may be in dealing with it, however, we have feelings and emotions and some of it just has to "happen."
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
our spouses may be ill or lacking or confused because they are walking away from their marriages, however, we may be as well because we are clinging to them.
i think i really did a good job in the last year of getting a life and raising my pma, but i still was clinging to a marriage that was very broken. we talk about letting it go, letting our spouses go, but it isn't until we truly do that, that we can heal. and maybe in time then the marriage can heal too, but that again requires two people. and i think for many of us, it is very difficult to really let go and detach lovingly while still being physically and emotionally connected to the other person. i am not sure how the others do it. i couldn't and didn't.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
Abandonment--definitely a conscious and subconsious fear of mine, something I am wrestling with.
I agree that it isn't just about sex, but of being emotionally vulnerable and open, knowing that the WAS just doesn't have those feelings. The thought that brought me to a screeching mess this week was "He is not going to ever love me again."
I don't know where the thought came from; I was in the car, listening to a pretty off-topic, up song. But it washed over me, and brought me to a very bad place. It took a long time to process, and I did some reading / talking to IC about the stages of grief. The last one is acceptence.
And maybe the WAS is the one who needs for us to accept where they are, and separate their choices from our own.
Can you post an overview of the stages you mentioned in the Abandonment book? I'd bet they were similar to grief...
Donna, I guess maybe I'm not the right person to give advice right now. I personally wouldn't keep living with someone that wanted to not be committed to be and said so (been there done that and I don't know how that was respectful to me or him but hindsight is 20/20). I don't know how that sends yourself a positive message, your children a positive message, or your H a positive message about how to treat you. I know others will say "believe half of what you hear" but .... these types of things now to me just seem silly that we put up with them.
Anyway, I'm going to a friend's house for a goodbye party (joining the airforce) and to sit by the pool and chill for a few hours. Possibly out dancing after that.
Hope everyone has a relaxing evening. Be kind to yourself.
Last edited by galing; 06/23/0709:32 PM.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
Yeah, that thought makes me sick to my stomach, too. That's why I'm not sure I know what I want, myself, given the current "options." So, glad to have the time / space to think it through.
That's the plan. There is a lot to consider, in addition to the obvious: the financials, the kids, his parents, scheduling and partnership with all of the above, etc.
I think it is easier to get through life with two sets of hands. Now I just have to figure out if it is healthy for me, for the kids. I have to approach this as a friends-only thing for now--that is the reality of where he is. Can I do that?
Not sure yet. Trip, that's exactly what I am doing--taking the time for me, there is no crisis right now.
NP Donna... sounds like you are doing the right things by giving yourself time and making decisions for you.
I had a great night last night. Went to the going away party. It was out at a lake. We played v-ball in the lake, drank, ate, talked, laughed, had a camp fire, and just really enjoyed ourselves. There were about 3 ladies and 3 guys and then a bunch of the neighbors of the girl whose party it was (she lives in an apartment building). I am really finding that I have a good personality for drawing people out. It's cool. I think I'm so open with people about myself and kind of put it all out there, that they feel comfortable doing that back and it makes it so easy to get to know people. Making lots of new friends and enjoying life. Two of the new friends I've made in the past few months are moving this week so that is a bummer but I'm happy to have met them and met people through them and look forward to keeping track of them through email, etc. and seeing them when the come back to town for visits.
Went to church today, met with H for breakfast and a talk, and then did some retail therapy (horrible I know) but bought myself 3 cute sundresses on sale sale sale. I'll be looking hot hot hot on my next outings.
Convo with H was good. Helped clarify for me what I want and where I'm at with all of this. I feel good. Calm. I've done all I can do. He doesn't trust that I can meet his needs, doesn't wish to take a leap to try, and doesn't have faith in it. I can't change any of that. Those things are not within my control. The past is the past and I can't change it. I can only change the present and future, respect our vows and have faith in God to help us through it. If he can't, he can't. So, I feel good knowing that I did all I could and I know that part, is not in my control. I think I'll be able to live my life without regret because I'll know that I would have tried, would have really loved him and met his needs if given a chance, but I wasn't given that chance, and while that is sad, that part is out of my control. Should we have met each other's needs and made our marriage the first time around? ABSOLUTELY... but we didn't and the past is the past. We both made mistakes. But in the present, he doesn't wish to continue honoring the committment we made, to work on restoring it, and give it a second chance. It's sad but it is what it is and I'll make my life great. I navigated him towards the divorce paperwork online so I hope he'll start researching it and file. I'm ready for us to have a resolution since he doesn't wish to work on it.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
You sound like you are in a solid place Dana. I'm happy for you. You HAVE done all you can do. More than anyone should ever have to do and put up with. You are an incredible person and will no doubt have all you have ever wanted out of life. It will come to you!
Dana-- You sound so strong. It is a good place to be. Sometimes, people are not as strong as we think they should/could be. And that is a shame, but a fact of life--we don't know what we have inside until we are truly tested. Scott is so right--you are going to have/make a great future for you! You can feel it, and it shows in your posts. It also shows to those around you, which is probably why you are making so many new connections. The more people in your inner circle, the healthier you are throughout life :0) Best of everything, Donna
Hey Dana ~ I was thinking of you today! I am glad that you are at peace w the convo you had w your H. You have done everything you can and you will be that much better of a person because you have taken a very difficult experience and have learned all that you can from it!
Thanks everyone. Appreciate the support. I have only seen my husband 4 times (I think that is the right number) over the course of like the last 2 months (and all those times within the last 3 weeks about), and everytime I see him, I'm more sure this is the right direction to be heading. Part of me feels guilty for saying that. However, I no longer know that I would take him back, even if he wanted to work on the marriage. He has openly admitted that the pain he has inflicted in the past year, he was very aware of it, knew it was damaging to me, disrespectful, and hurtful, yet kept doing it, and often I am not sure they he has stopped those behaviors. It is difficult to imagine actually wanting to spend your life with someone that has known they are hurting you and has purposefully and specifically continued to do so.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
I was busy with reserves this weekend and was out of the loop, just got caught up with you and wanted to drop by.
Originally Posted By: galing
We both made mistakes. But in the present, he doesn't wish to continue honoring the committment we made, to work on restoring it, and give it a second chance. It's sad but it is what it is and I'll make my life great....I'm ready for us to have a resolution since he doesn't wish to work on it.
I really like what you wrote in that post, because they are pretty much EXACTLY the conclusions I came to as well over the past several weeks or months. I really think I have great things ahead of me, and think so for you too. I also know that it is no easy road to get to these conclusions. You really sound strong, even though we all have our down moments. Keep up the great work!
Kev
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising every time we fall." -Confucius
"God alone decides the contest; but we must put our shoulders to the wheel." -Adm. D.G. Farragut
Kevin-38; XW-36 M-2.5, together 4 Bomb-1/6/07; D-6/27/07
So, I have been a total lazy arse the last few days. I have still been doing v-ball, going out with friends, going to class, etc. but during the days, I haven't been doing much of anything besides reading, sitting behind the computer and watching tv. I guess I've been allowing myself some wallowing time.
I feel pretty good today. I actually at one point today was able to think back and remember and be grateful for the things that I am taking from this marriage and for the love, romance, security, friendship, and partnership that I did have for some time. It is a gift to have that from another person and although that is ending, I want to be able to look back and the pain and the happiness and grow from both and appreciate what I have learned from both. It felt good to be able to do that. Lately, I've buried the good memories or rewritten them (and probably still have for a lot of the more recent ones) because it was too painful. It made me long for that and want that with my husband and get angry at why I couldn't have that with him again. But, today, it didn't feel like that. It felt like being grateful for a period of time in my life that is no more. The past is the past. And I'm getting more comfortable about the future and the possibility of it. Still scary as hell.
I did work on one of my goals today. I emailed someone about guitar lessons. May start those soon. Mowed the lawn today and v-ball tonight. Really need to do homework tomorrow... put that off all weekend and I have class tomorrow night.
My BIL (on Hs side) lost his dad at age 70 this past week to lung cancer. So I'm going to stop at the grocery store tonight too and make them a hot dish for dinner tomorrow night. Sad, but he seems to be handling it as well as he can be.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
Dana, Still being that ray of light--and sharing it with others. That's what it's all about, anyway. Growing into and being the person we want to be. It is good that you are able to take so much for what has been such a trial. I never found out what class you are taking...? I just started Classroom Mgmt and Curriculum, Instruction & Assessment for Special Needs Students today :0) --Donna
Donna: Thank you! I'm taking a public policy class. It's required for the masters in teaching at my university. I think it's the only university in my state that requires that class for a MAT. Silly class for teachers. If it were about the policies that affect my kids, that would be helpful, but it's about the process of how policies are made instead.
HS: Thank you It would have been nice to have gotten lessons that I could exchange for beer or setting someone up with one of my friends instead of paying someone money.
Vball tonight was fun. We won one and lost two. There was a really hot guy on the other team. I got to the game about 1/2 hour early and he was sitting there so I struck up conversation with him during that time. Balls out! he he. I knew nothing would come of it but I want to start challenging myself to put it out there. I have a hard time doing that with men I'm actually attracted to (probably because I'm not ready yet), but an easy time with everyone else.
I'm in the middle of cooking a hotdish right now. I forgot I have a class during the day tomorrow through school and so the homework and hotdish I planned to do tomorrow need to be done yet tonight. Somehow I don't think the 80 pages of reading homework is going to get done. OOPS! Kind of glad to have class tomorrow. Need to get my butt out of the house during the day and be productive.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
Hotties and hotdishes...sounds like a good day. Sorry about the lame class. Good to hear that it gets you out and about, though. My kids do that for me; grad classes are all online.
Had class today which was nice. Learned a few new things and hung out with a friend while there. Also talked to a tech person at school and I'm meeting with him on Thursday to talk about me teaching an online class through one of the universities in town. It's a great way to make some extra cash so I'm looking forward to learning about that and seeing if it's something I could do. Something regarding a second job has to work out at some point here.
Playing hookie tonight from my master's class. I didn't do the homework since I hung out with my brother in law last night. He talked to me for a few hours about his dad's death, etc. Glad I could listen. So for once in my life I'm taking the route of getting some rest and relaxation tonight instead of punishing myself to go to a class that I'm not prepared for anyway. May sound irresponsible but coming from uber-responsible girl it's a good change for me to do what I want instead of what I think I should always do. It's supposed to rain here tonight. I LOVE RAIN. I'm looking forward to grabbing a beer, sitting on my stoop, listening to the rain, and appreciating the present and dreaming about my future.
A friend is coming over tomorrow to get my help in setting her up on an online dating service. Might be fun. I can live vicariously through her for a while and check out the hotties through her account. Not ready to date through that kind of service myself. Hoping to meet people a little more naturally as I put myself out there with time.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
Sounds good, galing! Glad you're treating yourself good. Love it! Should be fun helping your friend out with the online dating thing. Enjoy your evening! Living in the moment is so great.
Me: 37 M: 14 yrs Separated 10/06; Filed for D 12/07 Life is good.
I saw a really cool quote today that I think Fig posted on a thread. It got me thinking about something my MIL asked me awhile ago.
She asked me, "Dana, what do you want?"
There are many things I want from my personal life but above all, I wish and want someday to share my life with someone and have a family. Secondly, I wish to give back to society (and I think teaching is one of the greatest ways I can do that). I want to be a wife who respects her husband and is loved back. I know I will find a way to be happy if that doesn't happen, but I certain WANT that from my life and I do think in many ways we do need that as it is what I believe God intended - that we should share our life loving another and helping one another get to heaven. My H and I failed at appreciating what we had, helping each other follow God's word, and loving each other as we needed/wanted. I hope that God will grant me a chance someday to have love in my life and to make a true marriage with another. That is what I want and pray for. I saw this quote and it struck me as what I want someday in a marriage. Love. Real and true love. I am beginning to see that my future could really hold great things and I'm excited to live in my present and hope for the future. Faith.
From "Captain Corelli's Mandolin, "Love is a temporary madness. It erupts like an earthquake and then subsides. And when it subsides you have to make a decision. You have to work out whether your roots have become so entwined together that it is inconceivable that you should ever part. Because this is what love is. Love is not breathlessness, it is not excitement, it is not the promulgation of promises of eternal passion. That is just being "in love" which any of us can convince ourselves we are. Love itself is what is left over when being in love has burned away, and this is both an art and a fortunate accident. Your mother and I had it, we had roots that grew toward each other underground, and when all the pretty blossoms had fallen from our branches we found that we were one tree and not two."
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
HS: Adult ed would be cool. If you are interested in teaching English at all, they are certificates to teach English as a Second Language to adults. A lot of immigrants would really benefit from knowing the legal system and their rights. I think that is your field, right?
Just had counseling. Feeling really good. This is a rollercoaster, bound to be and normal, but I know I am doing the right things to make sure I come out of this a better person. The counselor just really helps keep me focused on me and my future and moving on. We talked about me writing a hello letter soon. I'm not ready for that yet, but keeping it in the back of my head. Hello to the future type of thing...
Yoga today, drinks out with a friend, and homework. Really nice out today here so I'm going to hit the hammock in a bit and do my homework.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
Sounds like a good day and I hope you enjoyed your time in the hammock. I recently had a bad experience with a hammock ~ I was at my friends house who recently got one so when I went to go lie down in it I misjudged the middle and it flipped me completely over and I fell flat on my face. I have never seen my friend's 6 year old daughter laugh so hard before! Who knew they could be so dangerous :-)! Anyway, not relevant at all but thought you might like the funny visual. We all got a good laugh about it!
No hammock accidents to report. Had a great day enjoying some nice weather and reading outside, terrific yoga session, and dinner and drinks tonight with a friend. Really enjoyed the company and laughter.
Have a lunch tomorrow and class at night and drinks after class with a friend.
It's been a really good week!
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
I do work in the legal system, as a corrections officer. My biggest interest in adult ed would be as a trainer and possibly a college prof. I've had the most respect for my profs that actually work in the field and get how things really work v. how the text describes them. I'm a training instructor in several disciplines, and it's something I really enjoy.
HS: sounds like you definitely have the skills to be a trainer/teacher/prof. I worked as a trainer in computer software for a few years. I'm sure you'd have a lot to offer with your expertise and the experience you are getting in training. Follow your passions!
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
found out about affair 8/06 H moves out Nov/06 D final 8/07 X re marries OW 5/08 _________________________ Courage does not always roar, sometimes it is a quiet voice at the end of the day saying... " I will try again tomorrow". -- Mary Anne Radmacher
I feel at peace. I went camping this weekend. Oddly, it was something I realize the old me would not have appreciated, enjoyed, or probably have done. I am so glad that person is gone. Can't change the past.... but certainly going to live for the present and be the person I want to be now and into my future. There were fireflies everywhere in the fields, cozy fires, stars illuminating the sky, the sounds and smells of the outdoors, and good friends and family. It was a romantic setting and one that I hope to enjoy in the future with someone special. I can definitely see myself going camping in my future and enjoying that with friends and with a man. I thought last night about how my H and I never did that. I wish we had, those would be memories I would like to have. But we weren't the same then, I wasn't the same then, I had some sadness but reality and acceptance in that thought, and excitement in thinking about my future and what it will hold and what I will make of it.
I feel like some of the things I'm most proud of lately is that I'm really appreciating what I have in life, being grateful for what I have and expressing gratitude for it, appreciating the memories for the past and thanking those in my life for those yet accepting them as the past, and moving forward in my present and future. I am becoming a really respectful and appreciative woman and I know that some strong man (stress this part because I wish to find someone who is really emotionally strong and truly knows himself) out there, is going to get himself one heck of a catch someday when I choose to love again. Just feel like I'm learning so much.
I have those moments of pity and sadness when I feel alone or like I don't have a family, but I also feel great peace at times when I think about my future. I have faith that great things shall come and I know with all I have learned, I will then make and keep things great.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
the world works in mysterious ways... in a moment of fear last night when i was worrying about my future but yet surrounded by the calm of nature, i got a phone call from a v-ball friend inviting me out to drinks. i wasn't in the city so i couldn't go, but it just made me smile. the call came at exactly the right time. i know, i just need to keep putting myself out there and meeting new people and building friendships. in the end, making friendships and finding love in that way, is what will help me be happy and not feel alone while going through the divorce and it is always what gives me great hope for my future. so, one thing i have resolved from all of this and learned, is that i like being outgoing and social and i need to be and regardless of if i get married someday again, i will not lose myself again in that marriage and lose that social and outgoing and balls out person. i lost that along the way in my current marriage. i lost my individuality and spirit. there is a way to have that and a marriage and next time i intend to have both.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
Glad you sound so good! You know, I think the thing we learn through this process is OURSELVES. I, too, would have never camped before, and now I'm begging H to go. (He used to complain I wouldn't be open to that, and now HE'S dragging his heels...ugh!)
Embrace yourself. I think so much is made of the "two becoming one" that we forget who we are as individuals. You don't sacrifice your personality to another person...you accept each other and learn a thing or two in the process.
You keep doing your awesome Dana thang!
SD
Me: 40 H: 43 H had EA from 2/06-9/06 Bomb 5/06 Piecing since 9/2006 3/2008: Boundary setting 7/2009: Boundary crossing~dropped my own bomb. 8/2010: Marriage finally on track!
-evenings out with my 'sex in the city friends' -becoming and being a great teacher -a future family, being a wife, a mother -being a sister, a daughter, an aunt -loving myself and the woman I am, humbling myself and growing from the past, accepting my failures and my flaws and learning from them and embracing them -appreciating and accepting and openly stating the things I am good at. Being confident and assertive. -knowing my needs and communicating them effectively -being a good listener -laughter, FUN -camping, traveling, fishing, yard work, taking care of my house/car, yoga, working out, running, card club, guitar, piano, drawing, ....-living in the moment and the present ....trying many new things and learning what I like -seeing the positives in everything and everyone -not judging others -a spiritual relationship with God and church, being active in church, and a marriage built in a foundation of church -being grateful for all I have in my life -knowing more about men and marriage. continual learning. building a great marriage with someone. knowing what someone else needs and meeting those needs and showing love in the way that person needs. continual growth and deep love. -making new friends and enjoying old friends -becoming financially indepedent and owning my home -staying physically fit and having a great body -a better relationship with my family -learning from my marriage, appreciating the great things that were present in it and appreciating the good things my husband gave me and us, and moving forward -respecting and loving full force -traveling, living abroad someday -joining new organizations and clubs and meeting new people and learning new things -being friendly, a spirit/force/light, being open, balls out, treating people like a best friend, loving life, being funny, and a little wild -controlling myself only and being a good friend to others but allowing people to control their own stuff and knowing I don't have to take that on -learning throughout life about myself and others -being a great friend -inviting people to my house -setting goals continually and reaching them -being independent and on my own, and then sharing with someone else eventually (not sacrificing) -good health -putting myself out there -dating again -butterflies, new touches, new loves, new feelings -being romanced, being pursued, being appreciated, being loved -great communication -men who know themselves and what they want and can communicate it -exploring my sexuality
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
I LOVE your list. Have you ever thought of doing a Fulbright exchange, teaching? I went to a great seminar on one from Japan...they are available for so many countries, and you get PAID your regular, US salary :0)
You sound SO good; these are the ingredients for a Great Life.
Great list Dana! I might have to steal some of your Hello's :-)!! Glad you had fun camping. I have never been much of a camper but like you am starting to appreciate all that is around me so maybe I will give it another try! It is funny how being put in these sitch's makes us look at things differently. Personally, I am glad that it has as it has made me a better person. I think the same has happened for you as well! Have a great week!
So, I was talking with my sister today. We were discussing that although I haven't met anyone I would like to date, I know that my marriage is over and that is a next step for me, should the time and opportunity come. It could be months, who knows. But, we talked about the fact that I am still married. I don't want to be someone who is considered a cheater or someone who is considered having an affair. I know my husband ended our marriage but yet, I am still legally married. I do not know when or if he will file. My couselor (who met him a few times for MC) does not think he ever will nor do some of our family and friends. I did not want the responsibility of ending our marriage when I was willing to work on it and try again and start over. I didn't want to live with the knowledge for the rest of my life that I was the one that had to end it (even if it is just the paperwork). I was really hoping if he was the one who wants it ended, that he would take that step. Anyway, my point is, how do you move forward when you are still married? I don't know if that is really moral or okay. I feel like I should be divorced first yet I don't know that I am okay doing that either. It's just weird. Kind of feel like I'm stuck right now between being single and not really single.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
K- I understand what you're saying. I guess my thoughts right now are regarding if I should be the one to file. I feel I have and have to accept that this marriage is over. Therefore, for myself, I need to move forward. That doesn't mean dating right this instance, etc. but that means the marriage is over and I have a future that doesn't include him and I need to move towards that future. I don't think I will feel right dating as long as I am legally married. So, I start to wonder, if since the marriage is over anyway, why I can't get past myself and just be the one to file. I don't know why I'm hung up on that bit. Anyway, because I'm confused I know it is not a time to act... just thinking about it and my concerns.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
My mom told me recently that getting a divorce is worse than losing a spouse to death. She said, divorce is worse than death because the person is still there, still available via email, phone, can see them on the street, etc. and so that complete loss doesn't really happen. It's so weird. It's like how to just end that connection you had with someone? How to you stop talking, stop conversing, stop sharing thoughts, stop caring about each other? I feel like you have to do that to move on, yet regardless of the acceptance, the draw is still there to have that person in your life in some way because they have been for so long.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
I can't remember whether I've ever posted to you before, and if I have, I probably started that post the same way...
You seem a little... melancholy today? Sorry to see that if it's true.
Quoting you in bold:
I guess my thoughts right now are regarding if I should be the one to file.
And a tough decision that one is. Suppose this situation (i.e. nobody files) continued indefinitely? Then what?
Therefore, for myself, I need to move forward.
And what does move forward mean exactly? Aren't you/haven't you been moving forward this whole time?
I don't think I will feel right dating as long as I am legally married.
And so you won't. Admirable stance, one that's highly personal and not right for everyone. But if it's right for you....
if since the marriage is over anyway, why I can't get past myself and just be the one to file. I don't know why I'm hung up on that bit.
Why?
Maybe because it wasn't what you wanted? Maybe because you don't want to be "responsible" for ending it? Maybe because you're not ready to end it?
and those are the ones I could come up with off the cuff, you might have some of your own?
Anyway, because I'm confused I know it is not a time to act...
So, as a classic problem solver, instead of listening and empathizing, I'll ask this:
Exactly what would it take to help alleviate that confusion?
And I guess if I was going to try to be more like the new me, I'd tack on:
"And is there anything I can do to help, even if it's just listening?"
My mom told me recently that getting a divorce is worse than losing a spouse to death.
Maybe not worse, but certainly a different type of pain. One that doesn't exactly allow for closure quite so easily...
She said, divorce is worse than death because the person is still there, still available via email, phone, can see them on the street, etc. and so that complete loss doesn't really happen.
To this I would also add....
If your spouse dies, chances are they did not make a willful choice to do so, whereas in our cases...
How to you stop talking, stop conversing, stop sharing thoughts, stop caring about each other?
Well, for us, it's more like an amputation. Suddenly you wake up and you're missing a part of you. Nothing you can do about it, so you just learn to get on with it. The how comes by learning how to live again, and doing so in the absence of what's now missing.
And like I said earlier, haven't you really been moving on the whole time?
I feel like you have to do that to move on, yet regardless of the acceptance, the draw is still there to have that person in your life in some way because they have been for so long.
I think the ideal we many of us have is that we will always 'love' them at some level or another... But I really think that we just become more used to not having them around and eventually they recede from our thoughts altogether. As I've been explaining to swashy for a while, eventually one becomes indifferent, and you're no longer emotionally bound to them.
A couple other things about moving on....
1) IC is always telling me that the best way to replace old memories (something I was hung up on) is to start making new ones. Eventually the old ones get boxed up and the boxes don't get opened very often.
2) Not sure I want to tell it to you in this way, but moving on gets much, much easier once all the formalities are out of the way (or at least it did for me). The court date etc. actually felt a little like closing the door on things and it really helped me move forward. Until that happened I always felt like things we're still unresolved... Sounds like you're a little like that yourself, since you're saying what I always did (I'm still married until the judge says I'm not, or whatever it is for you...
Anyway, I hope this helps. As always, whenever I see someone (seemingly?) hurting, it's a little dissatisfying to be unable to do much about it.
Take care,
S_O_T_S aka: Stoic_On_The_Surface
I can't quite get there cause my heart's forsaken me - KT Tunstall
I guess my thoughts right now are regarding if I should be the one to file.
And a tough decision that one is. Suppose this situation (i.e. nobody files) continued indefinitely? Then what? Then I never let go, never move on, never move forward in my future. Although I have been "moving on" I have still been holding onto this marriage. Until it is completely over, I don't know that I'll be able to move forward regarding building my life, (or searching that out) with someone else. Therefore, for myself, I need to move forward.
And what does move forward mean exactly? Aren't you/haven't you been moving forward this whole time?
Yes, I believe I have been moving forward. I guess what I mean is I have started to envision a future for myself. I know this marriage can't be in my future so at some point, I need a resolution, a disolving of the marriage so I know I can move forward more. I do want to be a married person and have a family someday. I guess at some point in the near future, I want to start the process in opening myself up for that truly and I personally don't feal I can do that until my marriage is ended.
I don't think I will feel right dating as long as I am legally married.
And so you won't. Admirable stance, one that's highly personal and not right for everyone. But if it's right for you....
if since the marriage is over anyway, why I can't get past myself and just be the one to file. I don't know why I'm hung up on that bit.
Why?
Maybe because it wasn't what you wanted? yes Maybe because you don't want to be "responsible" for ending it? yes, i am worried about carrying the burden for the rest of my life of knowing i ended it and thinking of the "what ifs". i really was hoping and wanting him to be the one to do it since he is the one that has left the marriage and not returned and says he won't. so i want him to be the one to really make that last stance. i feel like he could carry on like this forever though or until he knows he's ready to marry someone else. i can't do that.... i can't truly move forward with someone else (or even have that possibility in my future) until this marriage is ended. Maybe because you're not ready to end it? no idea anymore if I would or could work on it if he wanted to. haven't had to think about it so i don't.
and those are the ones I could come up with off the cuff, you might have some of your own?
Anyway, because I'm confused I know it is not a time to act...
So, as a classic problem solver, instead of listening and empathizing, I'll ask this:
Exactly what would it take to help alleviate that confusion?
And I guess if I was going to try to be more like the new me, I'd tack on:
"And is there anything I can do to help, even if it's just listening?"
I don't know if anything can alleviate that confusion. My counselor keeps telling me that with time I will be ready to end it. But that I will have to be the one to do so. I guess I'll just give myself more time. I seem to be getting closer.
2) Not sure I want to tell it to you in this way, but moving on gets much, much easier once all the formalities are out of the way (or at least it did for me). The court date etc. actually felt a little like closing the door on things and it really helped me move forward. Until that happened I always felt like things we're still unresolved... Sounds like you're a little like that yourself, since you're saying what I always did (I'm still married until the judge says I'm not, or whatever it is for you... I think I'm probably like that too.
Last edited by galing; 07/02/0707:54 PM.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
I was thinking more about what you wrote, what I wrote and something HS wrote:
I hate to say it, but that really is up to you. If you have any concern that it's not what you want to do, I'd say don't do it. If it comes time that it is what you want, I think you'll definitely know it.
I was having this same discussion with someone else from this board offline and this is what I told him:
If you're asking the question about whether pulling the trigger on ending it is right or not, then it isn't right. The fact that you're asking that question at all indicates some level of doubt.
It's like HS said:
If it comes time that it is what you want, I think you'll definitely know it.
You'll know when you're ready.
I know it sounds trite, and to some extent a little like a circular argument, but I also think it's completely true.
Take care,
S_O_T_S aka: Stoic_On_The_Surface
I can't quite get there cause my heart's forsaken me - KT Tunstall
Dana - I think you really just need to listen to your heart here. As for the dating thing I know that currently I'm just looking to go out and have fun. Make myself feel good and enjoy life. I'm not looking for the physcial side of it...because I'm simply not ready for that yet...but I know I will be at some point as this progresses and I continue to move on with my life.
So what are you looking to get out of dating? Are you really looking for a R or are you just looking to enjoy life again and meet new people?
As for the filing. Again, follow your heart. Will you regret being the one to file or will you look at it as though you made a stand for yourself and did what you wanted. Can you push him to do it? Can you tell him, look you started this and you will finish it and I want you to file by X date...you at least owe me that.
This is your ballgame now Dana, how do you want it to play out?
Dana - I think you really just need to listen to your heart here. As for the dating thing I know that currently I'm just looking to go out and have fun. Make myself feel good and enjoy life. I'm not looking for the physcial side of it...because I'm simply not ready for that yet...but I know I will be at some point as this progresses and I continue to move on with my life.
So what are you looking to get out of dating? Are you really looking for a R or are you just looking to enjoy life again and meet new people? I honestly feel like I've been meeting new people, enjoying life, etc. for months on end. So once I start dating, it will be for fun, but not just fun, it will be in the hopes of finding someone through that fun. I have done a really good job in that field and I continue to. At some point here, I guess I'm looking to free myself up to actually date. I haven't met anyone that I wish to date. But right now I am not even open to it because I am still married. I guess I get and accept that my marriage is over. I want to be married again someday and I want a family someday. I am not saying I need to find that tomorrow, but at some point here, I do need him to end the marriage or I need to do it myself so I have the possibility of a future with someone else. As for the filing. Again, follow your heart. Will you regret being the one to file or will you look at it as though you made a stand for yourself and did what you wanted. Can you push him to do it? Can you tell him, look you started this and you will finish it and I want you to file by X date...you at least owe me that.
This is your ballgame now Dana, how do you want it to play out?
I'll think about it. I don't have an answer right now. That was the point of my post. ... still thinking. Like everything else lately... it will come with time. I predict that I will be the one to file and it will happen with time. It seems to come up in counseling a lot now. At some point, I will be ready and I won't beat myself up for it but instead will see it as a necesary step, but right now I can't say that yet.
Last edited by galing; 07/02/0708:27 PM.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
Quoting you in bold, and in case you didn't know, you do have a choice as to the color so long as it's readable.
Then I never let go, never move on, never move forward in my future.
But you know that will happen, since at some point if he doesn't move you will.
Although I have been "moving on" I have still been holding onto this marriage. Until it is completely over, I don't know that I'll be able to move forward regarding building my life, (or searching that out) with someone else.
And there's absolutely nothing wrong with any of that. That's all part of the package that you are WRT commitment, loyalty, beliefs and high moral character?
So then it all comes down to one of a few things happening:
1) He finally files 2) You start to 'move on', perhaps w/ someone else before it's all over 3) You decide to file so you can move on.
I guess what I mean is I have started to envision a future for myself.
Very nice. That's actually a big milestone.
yes, i am worried about carrying the burden for the rest of my life of knowing i ended it and thinking of the "what ifs". i really was hoping and wanting him to be the one to do it since he is the one that has left the marriage and not returned and says he won't.
But he might not, and you have to be prepared to do it. If it's really what you need to do to move on...
What would be the worst that would happen if you did file? Maybe he gets to go around telling everyone it was your decision??? You'd know the truth (about why you did) AND who cares what he or anyone else would think anyway?
I know exactly what you mean (I think I do anyway) about wanting to make them own up to their responsibility for ending your commitment, but yet, at the same time - and you know this already - you can't do that at the expense of watching your life slip away from you...
Alaska (where is that guy anyway) always used to say that last part, and I never beleived him...
i feel like he could carry on like this forever though or until he knows he's ready to marry someone else. i can't do that.... i can't truly move forward with someone else (or even have that possibility in my future) until this marriage is ended.
And again, you know you can't control his actions. And the fact that you're sure about the last sentence is a very good sign... Just means you may not get what you wish for about him taking responsibility for ending it.
I don't know if anything can alleviate that confusion.
Isn't that what we're doing right now? (Hopefully I'm not wasting your time)
My counselor keeps telling me that with time I will be ready to end it.
My IC always told me this too. I never believed it, and never had to find out, but I do know, at the end of it all, I would not have waited around forever.
But that I will have to be the one to do so.
Maybe not, but you do have to accept that as a possibility, as you well know.
I guess I'll just give myself more time. I seem to be getting closer.
Time helps. Lots of perspective w/ time and distance. And the fact that you're asking the question at all means you're closer, right?
Take care,
S_O_T_S aka: Stoic_On_The_Surface
I can't quite get there cause my heart's forsaken me - KT Tunstall
Thanks Swashy, SOTS, and HS. Like SOTS said, I think I'm just a little melancholy today. My mood must be matching the weather here. Thanks for helping me work through my thoughts. Just gonna let this one lie for a while. No need for decisions at the moment.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
Good Dana...it sounds like you realize that you will do whatever you want to do whenever you are ready to do it. I think you continue on your path and when you do find someone that you are interested in...well you'll know then if you are ready or not to date. Same holds true with filing...when you know, you'll know. However I will say that I think he owes it to you to file and that if you ask him to...he should be man enough to do it. If he is not, well all the more reason not to feel guilty with doing that for yourself. ((((DANA)))))
Okay. You know I am in the midst of what you are talking about.
I don't think you do stop caring about the other person and why do you have to in order to have another relationship. Friends for an example, you have many friends and on different levels. Does that mean you must stop caring about one in order to introduce a new one into your life? No. why should it be any different?
Just because someone leaves you and wants to be separated from you, doesn't mean you all of a sudden stop caring about or loving that person.
You know that I do struggle at times with my own morals and what it says about me and to others because I did get involved with someone so fast and so early. There is a lot to deal with at times and even when you think all is okay and that have dealt with issues you won't truly know until you are involved with someone else. Things come as you go along and then you can choose to handle them or not. You will not know what those issues will be as long as you are not putting yourself out there.
I think it is okay for you to be interested in dating but if you do feel that uncomfortable with the idea of being legally married and doing so, then you are going to have to make the choice to end it.
"I think it is okay for you to be interested in dating but if you do feel that uncomfortable with the idea of being legally married and doing so, then you are going to have to make the choice to end it."
Yep.. that is the kicker part. So, no need to make a decision today. If I meet Mr. Right and need to decide, I'll let you all know.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
HS: I thought of something catty to say to your package comment but I'm keeping it to myself. he he
I'm in a fiesty mood. I just had THE BEST time at volleyball. We played in the rain and I am dirty and muddy and disgusting right now but I had so much fun. We only had 3 players instead of 4 tonight but we played the best we have all season and had the most fun we've had all season. We won the first game, lost the second by 5, and the last one was tied at the time the game had to end and we lost the last point with a hit just outside the line. Totally bummer we didn't win but considering we came from losing by like 7 in that last game, it was pretty fun. I feel GREAT!
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
This thread is called introspection, growth, and acceptance, so you are fitting in well.
oh.. forgot to mention. funny that i had this whole dating conversation today on here since at v-ball tonight, the wife of one of the guys i play with asked me if i'm ready to date. i got the distinct notion that she has someone in mind that she wants to set me up with. i didn't give her the clearest of answers, and like the sweetheart she is she kind of just took it as confusion to be left at confusion, for now.
we're setting up our next team (current league ends next week) and one of our guys is taking a break until fall so we need another player. i think we're going to ask a cute guy who has subbed with us a few times. woot woot. for all i know he's married but i'm all for getting to know new people and the circle of people that then enables you to meet.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
I'm in a fiesty mood. I just had THE BEST time at volleyball. We played in the rain and I am dirty and muddy and disgusting right now but I had so much fun.
What, no PICTURES?
Thread #10 22 year M, MLC, Piecing since 1/07 Goal: Live with confidence & enthusiasm!
If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you, If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you But make allowance for their doubting too, If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, Or being lied about, don't deal in lies, Or being hated, don't give way to hating, And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise: If you can dream--and not make dreams your master, If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim; If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster And treat those two impostors just the same; If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken, And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings And risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss, And lose, and start again at your beginnings And never breath a word about your loss; If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew To serve your turn long after they are gone, And so hold on when there is nothing in you Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, Or walk with kings--nor lose the common touch, If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you; If all men count with you, but none too much, If you can fill the unforgiving minute With sixty seconds' worth of distance run, Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my son!
--Rudyard Kipling
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
