My mom told me recently that getting a divorce is worse than losing a spouse to death. She said, divorce is worse than death because the person is still there, still available via email, phone, can see them on the street, etc. and so that complete loss doesn't really happen. It's so weird. It's like how to just end that connection you had with someone? How to you stop talking, stop conversing, stop sharing thoughts, stop caring about each other? I feel like you have to do that to move on, yet regardless of the acceptance, the draw is still there to have that person in your life in some way because they have been for so long.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
I can't remember whether I've ever posted to you before, and if I have, I probably started that post the same way...
You seem a little... melancholy today? Sorry to see that if it's true.
Quoting you in bold:
I guess my thoughts right now are regarding if I should be the one to file.
And a tough decision that one is. Suppose this situation (i.e. nobody files) continued indefinitely? Then what?
Therefore, for myself, I need to move forward.
And what does move forward mean exactly? Aren't you/haven't you been moving forward this whole time?
I don't think I will feel right dating as long as I am legally married.
And so you won't. Admirable stance, one that's highly personal and not right for everyone. But if it's right for you....
if since the marriage is over anyway, why I can't get past myself and just be the one to file. I don't know why I'm hung up on that bit.
Why?
Maybe because it wasn't what you wanted? Maybe because you don't want to be "responsible" for ending it? Maybe because you're not ready to end it?
and those are the ones I could come up with off the cuff, you might have some of your own?
Anyway, because I'm confused I know it is not a time to act...
So, as a classic problem solver, instead of listening and empathizing, I'll ask this:
Exactly what would it take to help alleviate that confusion?
And I guess if I was going to try to be more like the new me, I'd tack on:
"And is there anything I can do to help, even if it's just listening?"
My mom told me recently that getting a divorce is worse than losing a spouse to death.
Maybe not worse, but certainly a different type of pain. One that doesn't exactly allow for closure quite so easily...
She said, divorce is worse than death because the person is still there, still available via email, phone, can see them on the street, etc. and so that complete loss doesn't really happen.
To this I would also add....
If your spouse dies, chances are they did not make a willful choice to do so, whereas in our cases...
How to you stop talking, stop conversing, stop sharing thoughts, stop caring about each other?
Well, for us, it's more like an amputation. Suddenly you wake up and you're missing a part of you. Nothing you can do about it, so you just learn to get on with it. The how comes by learning how to live again, and doing so in the absence of what's now missing.
And like I said earlier, haven't you really been moving on the whole time?
I feel like you have to do that to move on, yet regardless of the acceptance, the draw is still there to have that person in your life in some way because they have been for so long.
I think the ideal we many of us have is that we will always 'love' them at some level or another... But I really think that we just become more used to not having them around and eventually they recede from our thoughts altogether. As I've been explaining to swashy for a while, eventually one becomes indifferent, and you're no longer emotionally bound to them.
A couple other things about moving on....
1) IC is always telling me that the best way to replace old memories (something I was hung up on) is to start making new ones. Eventually the old ones get boxed up and the boxes don't get opened very often.
2) Not sure I want to tell it to you in this way, but moving on gets much, much easier once all the formalities are out of the way (or at least it did for me). The court date etc. actually felt a little like closing the door on things and it really helped me move forward. Until that happened I always felt like things we're still unresolved... Sounds like you're a little like that yourself, since you're saying what I always did (I'm still married until the judge says I'm not, or whatever it is for you...
Anyway, I hope this helps. As always, whenever I see someone (seemingly?) hurting, it's a little dissatisfying to be unable to do much about it.
Take care,
S_O_T_S aka: Stoic_On_The_Surface
I can't quite get there cause my heart's forsaken me - KT Tunstall
I guess my thoughts right now are regarding if I should be the one to file.
And a tough decision that one is. Suppose this situation (i.e. nobody files) continued indefinitely? Then what? Then I never let go, never move on, never move forward in my future. Although I have been "moving on" I have still been holding onto this marriage. Until it is completely over, I don't know that I'll be able to move forward regarding building my life, (or searching that out) with someone else. Therefore, for myself, I need to move forward.
And what does move forward mean exactly? Aren't you/haven't you been moving forward this whole time?
Yes, I believe I have been moving forward. I guess what I mean is I have started to envision a future for myself. I know this marriage can't be in my future so at some point, I need a resolution, a disolving of the marriage so I know I can move forward more. I do want to be a married person and have a family someday. I guess at some point in the near future, I want to start the process in opening myself up for that truly and I personally don't feal I can do that until my marriage is ended.
I don't think I will feel right dating as long as I am legally married.
And so you won't. Admirable stance, one that's highly personal and not right for everyone. But if it's right for you....
if since the marriage is over anyway, why I can't get past myself and just be the one to file. I don't know why I'm hung up on that bit.
Why?
Maybe because it wasn't what you wanted? yes Maybe because you don't want to be "responsible" for ending it? yes, i am worried about carrying the burden for the rest of my life of knowing i ended it and thinking of the "what ifs". i really was hoping and wanting him to be the one to do it since he is the one that has left the marriage and not returned and says he won't. so i want him to be the one to really make that last stance. i feel like he could carry on like this forever though or until he knows he's ready to marry someone else. i can't do that.... i can't truly move forward with someone else (or even have that possibility in my future) until this marriage is ended. Maybe because you're not ready to end it? no idea anymore if I would or could work on it if he wanted to. haven't had to think about it so i don't.
and those are the ones I could come up with off the cuff, you might have some of your own?
Anyway, because I'm confused I know it is not a time to act...
So, as a classic problem solver, instead of listening and empathizing, I'll ask this:
Exactly what would it take to help alleviate that confusion?
And I guess if I was going to try to be more like the new me, I'd tack on:
"And is there anything I can do to help, even if it's just listening?"
I don't know if anything can alleviate that confusion. My counselor keeps telling me that with time I will be ready to end it. But that I will have to be the one to do so. I guess I'll just give myself more time. I seem to be getting closer.
2) Not sure I want to tell it to you in this way, but moving on gets much, much easier once all the formalities are out of the way (or at least it did for me). The court date etc. actually felt a little like closing the door on things and it really helped me move forward. Until that happened I always felt like things we're still unresolved... Sounds like you're a little like that yourself, since you're saying what I always did (I'm still married until the judge says I'm not, or whatever it is for you... I think I'm probably like that too.
Last edited by galing; 07/02/0707:54 PM.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
I was thinking more about what you wrote, what I wrote and something HS wrote:
I hate to say it, but that really is up to you. If you have any concern that it's not what you want to do, I'd say don't do it. If it comes time that it is what you want, I think you'll definitely know it.
I was having this same discussion with someone else from this board offline and this is what I told him:
If you're asking the question about whether pulling the trigger on ending it is right or not, then it isn't right. The fact that you're asking that question at all indicates some level of doubt.
It's like HS said:
If it comes time that it is what you want, I think you'll definitely know it.
You'll know when you're ready.
I know it sounds trite, and to some extent a little like a circular argument, but I also think it's completely true.
Take care,
S_O_T_S aka: Stoic_On_The_Surface
I can't quite get there cause my heart's forsaken me - KT Tunstall
Dana - I think you really just need to listen to your heart here. As for the dating thing I know that currently I'm just looking to go out and have fun. Make myself feel good and enjoy life. I'm not looking for the physcial side of it...because I'm simply not ready for that yet...but I know I will be at some point as this progresses and I continue to move on with my life.
So what are you looking to get out of dating? Are you really looking for a R or are you just looking to enjoy life again and meet new people?
As for the filing. Again, follow your heart. Will you regret being the one to file or will you look at it as though you made a stand for yourself and did what you wanted. Can you push him to do it? Can you tell him, look you started this and you will finish it and I want you to file by X date...you at least owe me that.
This is your ballgame now Dana, how do you want it to play out?
Dana - I think you really just need to listen to your heart here. As for the dating thing I know that currently I'm just looking to go out and have fun. Make myself feel good and enjoy life. I'm not looking for the physcial side of it...because I'm simply not ready for that yet...but I know I will be at some point as this progresses and I continue to move on with my life.
So what are you looking to get out of dating? Are you really looking for a R or are you just looking to enjoy life again and meet new people? I honestly feel like I've been meeting new people, enjoying life, etc. for months on end. So once I start dating, it will be for fun, but not just fun, it will be in the hopes of finding someone through that fun. I have done a really good job in that field and I continue to. At some point here, I guess I'm looking to free myself up to actually date. I haven't met anyone that I wish to date. But right now I am not even open to it because I am still married. I guess I get and accept that my marriage is over. I want to be married again someday and I want a family someday. I am not saying I need to find that tomorrow, but at some point here, I do need him to end the marriage or I need to do it myself so I have the possibility of a future with someone else. As for the filing. Again, follow your heart. Will you regret being the one to file or will you look at it as though you made a stand for yourself and did what you wanted. Can you push him to do it? Can you tell him, look you started this and you will finish it and I want you to file by X date...you at least owe me that.
This is your ballgame now Dana, how do you want it to play out?
I'll think about it. I don't have an answer right now. That was the point of my post. ... still thinking. Like everything else lately... it will come with time. I predict that I will be the one to file and it will happen with time. It seems to come up in counseling a lot now. At some point, I will be ready and I won't beat myself up for it but instead will see it as a necesary step, but right now I can't say that yet.
Last edited by galing; 07/02/0708:27 PM.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
Quoting you in bold, and in case you didn't know, you do have a choice as to the color so long as it's readable.
Then I never let go, never move on, never move forward in my future.
But you know that will happen, since at some point if he doesn't move you will.
Although I have been "moving on" I have still been holding onto this marriage. Until it is completely over, I don't know that I'll be able to move forward regarding building my life, (or searching that out) with someone else.
And there's absolutely nothing wrong with any of that. That's all part of the package that you are WRT commitment, loyalty, beliefs and high moral character?
So then it all comes down to one of a few things happening:
1) He finally files 2) You start to 'move on', perhaps w/ someone else before it's all over 3) You decide to file so you can move on.
I guess what I mean is I have started to envision a future for myself.
Very nice. That's actually a big milestone.
yes, i am worried about carrying the burden for the rest of my life of knowing i ended it and thinking of the "what ifs". i really was hoping and wanting him to be the one to do it since he is the one that has left the marriage and not returned and says he won't.
But he might not, and you have to be prepared to do it. If it's really what you need to do to move on...
What would be the worst that would happen if you did file? Maybe he gets to go around telling everyone it was your decision??? You'd know the truth (about why you did) AND who cares what he or anyone else would think anyway?
I know exactly what you mean (I think I do anyway) about wanting to make them own up to their responsibility for ending your commitment, but yet, at the same time - and you know this already - you can't do that at the expense of watching your life slip away from you...
Alaska (where is that guy anyway) always used to say that last part, and I never beleived him...
i feel like he could carry on like this forever though or until he knows he's ready to marry someone else. i can't do that.... i can't truly move forward with someone else (or even have that possibility in my future) until this marriage is ended.
And again, you know you can't control his actions. And the fact that you're sure about the last sentence is a very good sign... Just means you may not get what you wish for about him taking responsibility for ending it.
I don't know if anything can alleviate that confusion.
Isn't that what we're doing right now? (Hopefully I'm not wasting your time)
My counselor keeps telling me that with time I will be ready to end it.
My IC always told me this too. I never believed it, and never had to find out, but I do know, at the end of it all, I would not have waited around forever.
But that I will have to be the one to do so.
Maybe not, but you do have to accept that as a possibility, as you well know.
I guess I'll just give myself more time. I seem to be getting closer.
Time helps. Lots of perspective w/ time and distance. And the fact that you're asking the question at all means you're closer, right?
Take care,
S_O_T_S aka: Stoic_On_The_Surface
I can't quite get there cause my heart's forsaken me - KT Tunstall
Thanks Swashy, SOTS, and HS. Like SOTS said, I think I'm just a little melancholy today. My mood must be matching the weather here. Thanks for helping me work through my thoughts. Just gonna let this one lie for a while. No need for decisions at the moment.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius
Good Dana...it sounds like you realize that you will do whatever you want to do whenever you are ready to do it. I think you continue on your path and when you do find someone that you are interested in...well you'll know then if you are ready or not to date. Same holds true with filing...when you know, you'll know. However I will say that I think he owes it to you to file and that if you ask him to...he should be man enough to do it. If he is not, well all the more reason not to feel guilty with doing that for yourself. ((((DANA)))))
Okay. You know I am in the midst of what you are talking about.
I don't think you do stop caring about the other person and why do you have to in order to have another relationship. Friends for an example, you have many friends and on different levels. Does that mean you must stop caring about one in order to introduce a new one into your life? No. why should it be any different?
Just because someone leaves you and wants to be separated from you, doesn't mean you all of a sudden stop caring about or loving that person.
You know that I do struggle at times with my own morals and what it says about me and to others because I did get involved with someone so fast and so early. There is a lot to deal with at times and even when you think all is okay and that have dealt with issues you won't truly know until you are involved with someone else. Things come as you go along and then you can choose to handle them or not. You will not know what those issues will be as long as you are not putting yourself out there.
I think it is okay for you to be interested in dating but if you do feel that uncomfortable with the idea of being legally married and doing so, then you are going to have to make the choice to end it.
