Sorry to hear it has come to this. Perhaps there was no other way and any other path would have lead to this same point. But I would have given counseling a hard try. Even though you are divorcing, there is no assurance this will cause her to understand the issues that are driving her and therefore try to learn, grow, and reconcile. I think counseling is the best shot at attaining this knowledge and only wish you had tried that route first. In my mind, D is always the last option and often one that you can never take back.
I hope she is sincere in her latest plea to you, but then why, or how, could she be? What has she learned about herself, other than the fact that you have power and are willing and able to wield it? Maybe her plea is not sincere at all and just a new twist in her bag of tricks or a way to buy time? Either way, what bothers me is that underneath all this, I sense you are still hoping she will change and that this motion for D is just a way to manipulate her into doing what you want.
Don’t get me wrong, because I have always preached that a person should make things uncomfortable for the withholding spouse, to move things off center and “force” growth to a higher level. But I don’t think it wise to push so hard as to loose sight of the objective and instead cause the spouse to harden even more. That’s the thing with wielding power. It is so easy to exert too much. But you’re on your path, so good luck and I hope things turn around with your wife.
Choc, you've grown so much during this process... I know you didn't want it to come to this, but there are two of you in this, and you can't do the other person's part for them. We're here for ya, buddy.
Originally Posted By: cobra
In my mind, D is always the last option and often one that you can never take back.
This is most certainly NOT true. Yeah, you can't take back the fact of D, but there are plenty of people who split up, grow, and come back together. I'm not saying that will happen here, but divorce is by no means the end of the road. Death is, but not divorce. Lots can happen after divorce.
I am sorry that this is where you are at this time. However, once you reach this point -
As much as I WANTED to be married to you, I realize now that I no longer NEED to be, nor can I, knowing how you feel about me and knowing the things that you've chosen to do.
you have "done the work" to know if it is time to go. If you can truly go with no regrets then you are ready. Not that anyone WANTS to prepare themselves to leave. Be prepared to have regrets on your children's behalf. However, that is different than having regrets about your part in things. Sometimes when my children have Christmas with one parent instead of two, when a form says "Spouse" and the name I write on th line is not the same as the "parent" of the child whose form it is........I regret the divorce on behalf of my children BUT I don't regret choosing the divorce nor how I got to the place to have to choose it. Strangely, my ex-H is in a bit of a better place now and says he "understands" why I had to leave and believes that it was right for the children (he will flip-flop on this next week but I choose to believe that this kind of statement represents the part of him that I fell in love with).
Good luck Choc and keep us in the loop once in a while.
I think she was frankly shocked that after threatening ME with divorce That sounds familiar.
Although the affair seems to be over for now, the simple fact is that I not only no longer love her, but I can no longer trust her, and I deserve better. The A is over? That has to be good for your kids and Mrs. Choc so she gats back to reality.
Here is a part of a post from the No More Mr. Nice Guy form. When I read it, I thought of you.
” A woman can’t follow where a man doesn’t lead! Tell your woman what you are thinking, what you are feeling, and what you want. Don’t make her guess or read your mind. Don’t wait for her to bring up problems in the relationship, its not her job and will make her feel like a nag. If there is something in your head, let her in on it. Don’t let resentment fester and build inside you until you blow up or lash out in passive-aggressive ways. Deal with things NOW!
Always treat a woman with love and respect.
Don’t keep secrets. Always tell the truth. Don’t do anything behind your woman’s back. Always do what you say you are going to do. Don’t procrastinate. Finish what you start.
Counter point If we treat everyone equally, how is a man to lead then, if he's at the same rank as the people he's supposed to be leading, and how are the people who allegedly wish to follow suppose to follow when equality states that she's equal to her partner? My guess is a lot of women, say they want a leader, but then want to dictate how they want to be lead, or that when face with the prospect of actually letting the man lead, which would dictate that they actually be subordinate to their husband, they really don't like the sounds of it and back off.
How FAR would she be willing to be lead. Would she be willing to be lead from the BMW dealership to the Kia dealership because the guy felt that was better for their overall finances, or would that be the deal breaker?”
I don’t know how much or what type of leader Mrs. Choc wanted, so some of the leadership comments may be off.
I also leave my marriage SO much stronger than I was before, as through my faith in God, the support of my friends and family, and the faithful, TIRELESS and unwavering support of NOP, I also thank NOP for his work that he did to help you Choc.
I lost 28 lbs (and added muscle), become more confident, lost my fears of confrontation, and learned to push thru the pain that Life throws at you from time to time, instead of running away from it or merely procrastinating. Losing 28#, becoming more confident, etc, all worthy activities that are not developed easily.
I read a forum, where lots of the spouses seem to not say much about their unhappiness and just walk away from the M. So many of the LBS wished they had a mate like you Choc. WTG for looking the dragon in the eye and fighting for what you and most people see as the right thing to do.
I did not expect you to understand, nor to take long to get a thinly-veiled "I-told-you-so" shot in.
Quote:
Either way, what bothers me is that underneath all this, I sense you are still hoping she will change and that this motion for D is just a way to manipulate her into doing what you want.
You've got to know when to hold 'em Know when to fold 'em Know when to walk away Know when to run You never count your money When you're sitting at the table There'll be time enough for counting When the dealing's done.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
You know, you challenged me with a post, WEEKS ago, and I wasn't avoiding answering you. This was the post:
Quote:
Is there anything about her personally, about her Self apart from her irrational, destructive, and hurtful behavior that you can admire or respect?
If she were to ditch the OM and return to the marriage, what about HER would you most look forward to connecting with again? Besides the fact that you want this tension to be over with, and besides the fact that you would want companionship and intimacy from her, and help with the children, and generally a nice lifestyle... what does Mrs choc as herself bring to your life that only SHE can bring? (Not saying that you couldn't find another loving partner.) What is unique, special, and lovable about her that makes you want her in your life at all?
I honestly couldn't think of anything. That realization was a big part of my decision to file for divorce. I remember going thru the pre-marriage course the Catholic Church makes you go thru before you get married, and working with our sponsorship couple, and we had to do this little workbook of exercises and stuff. One of the questions was "What is it about your fiancee that you love so much?"
And I'll never forget my answer: "Because she loves ME so much!"
Of course, I didn't know back then what "enmeshment" was, or what "co-dependency" looked like, but I can see now that I never really grew beyond just loving her to the extent she loved ME, and also loving not who she WAS, but who I WANTED HER TO BE (and thought, if I was just GOOD enough, and NICE enough, and HELPED her enough and PRAISED her enough, that she WOULD be).
