You are so right about plans changing day to day. After her saying yesterday "We are done" and going out on the town to do whatever, she comes home at 2:00 am. She helps the kids get ready in the morning and do their homework and ends up going with the kids and I to watch "The Bee Movie". I do see her having various phone conversations in Thai either with her Thai friends or family. She then is going over to her coworker teachers house/out on the town and may spend the night there if she is too drunk. It is not bothering me that much of her going out now, but I wonder what she is plotting as this coworker is maybe the only person that agrees with her.
I would doubt she is plotting much of anything at this point - She sounds pretty out of control, especially with the drinking, so she probably isn't anything close to together enough to create any sort of plan.
Just take it one day at a time - It sounds like she still wants to spend time as a family, which is great. Sure, she said you guys are done earlier, but her behavior is more what you want to watch, rather than what she says...
I agree with Brit. Your W is most likely not plotting or planning anything. My H isn't out of control like your W, but I too was going through this phase of now that he's on his own (he moved out) that he must be up to no good and plotting all kinds of things.
My sitch is different in the fact the H hasn't "gone off the deep end." Yes, he was going out and maybe still is partying and such, as I put it "enjoying his new found single life." He doesn't like it when I refer to it that way, so I avoid that. I think he doesn't like it because he in reality is experiencing a lot more pain than I give him credit for or even realized. IMO he was drinking off the pain. I dont' agree with that method, but I know he's done it before so it wouldn't be the first time. Not to mention I can't control it. I would get all of these awful visions in my head of what he was up to when he was out or even at the house he's living at. Now, several weeks later I step back and ask myself, "Why would he be doing any of that now. He's never done it before."
Obviously not the same, but I still don't think your W is in any position to be plotting right now. I think she's going through too much pain and self-loathing to be thinking about you. I know that's harsh, but I think that's the reality.
Me: 37 H: 35 M: 6 T: 8 2 cats, 1 dog, 0 kids S: 09/10/07 D started 9/21/07 (I stalled) Piecing: 11/9/07
Something has changed in her tone for the better since she stayed over last night drinking at her teacher friends house. She was very friendly to me on the phone. I took my daughter to Disney Princesses on Ice today and then the park. My wife took our son to Chinese Language class. She just called and wants all of us to eat at home tonight which is unusual as she does not usually like to eat in on the weekend. The only thing I have said following everyone's advise was that contacting her brother/mother was a big mistake on my part. I am done talking relationship with her for now. I have said all I can say. The seed is planted.
Something has changed in her tone for the better since she stayed over last night drinking at her teacher friends house. She was very friendly to me on the phone. I took my daughter to Disney Princesses on Ice today and then the park. My wife took our son to Chinese Language class. She just called and wants all of us to eat at home tonight which is unusual as she does not usually like to eat in on the weekend. The only thing I have said following everyone's advise was that contacting her brother/mother was a big mistake on my part. I am done talking relationship with her for now. I have said all I can say. The seed is planted.
Don't get discouraged if your next interaction is not so positive - Unfortunately, you'll experience a lot of back and forth in her behavior and feelings.
I have read you story and you are quite an inspiration for me. It looks very optimistic for your future with your wife. Also, it was good to see that the Browns beat the Seahawks in overtime today in a very good game. Cleveland is having a very good sports year with the Cavs, Indians and Browns.
I have been having some email exchanges with her brother in Thailand who I highly respect and get along very well with. He is a very hard working orthopedic surgeon and has had problems in his own marriage that are not his fault. The last time I was in Thailand, he invited me along on a sponsored trip through Vietnam with my son. We had a great time just us 3 guys together (along with 40 other Thai orthopedic surgeons).
He told me in an email that my wife had a good conversation with her mother this weekend and that their mother loves her daughter and worrys about her. They dont like what she is doing to me right now and want her to find happiness and a target in life.
He says that he understands his sister and plans to send her a letter. I think that a letter written in her native language and culture from someone she grew up with cant hurt.
I have told him that I am not pursuing my wife anymore and it is up to her to discover what she wants in life. I feel fresh in that I can concentrate on myself and my kids. The photo album I was making for her is now for myself. I have shown it to my father and a co-worker and they cant understand how anyone would want to walk out of a marriage that appears to have been filled with such love and joy. I just have an optimistic feeling that this will turn out ok.
My in-laws indicate they might be visiting us in February. I so very much hope that I am still part of their family at that time.
My wife will be taking a trip to Vegas this next Fri, Sat and Sun to attend her friends wedding. This will allow me some quality time again with the kids.
This woman is dangerous. Get your kids away from her now! Get the law on your side and go get them now. She is unsafe to herself and they are unsafe in her custody.
Back away and leave her alone. There is no telling what she will do. No more letters. No more email or contacts period. Stop with the picture album. Stop with the phone calls....once you get your kids. All of this is pressure on her and she has tried to tell you that eveytime she screams at you. Don't you get it? She is about to go off the deep end. She needs help, but you can't be the one to do it. If you have told her family, then hopefully they can get her help.
I know it would hurt to think this, but it would not surpirse me to find out that she "used" you to get her ticket here in the USA. I know that seems curel, but it happens all the time. Maybe she thought she did love you enough to make a life, but then found out she couldn't. Maybe it goes back to the resentment of a strict father. We could second guess all day long and not know for sure what the real problem is, but I think you need to completely back away and go completely dark once you get those kids away from her. I don't think a court would let her have them if you can prove her to be unfit. That shouldn't be too hard to do. I know you would not like to do that, but you must place those childen first!
Take care of the kids and yourself. She will have to get help and go through much healing before there can be a chance for you. But right now, she feels way too much hatred toward you to do anything else to patch up the M problems.
Keep coming back and we will try to give you support through this ordeal.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I have indeed backed off even though we still live together and sleep in the same bed. We are still civil with each other doing regular routines. She is very good with the kids still. I just cant see her totally losing it except when we have a talk about our problem. Then she turns into Mrs Hyde.
After talking with a coworker of mine and my counselor, it sure seems very likely that she has had at least a PA. The biggest evidence is that several months ago, she came down with genital herpes and attributed it to sharing some lipstick with her best friend that came to visit us. We both knew this friend had both kinds of herpes. I tended to believe it as the timing of the friends visit and the detection of the herpes occured so close to each other. However, I dont think it is possible to catch genital herpes through lip stick. I think that something like a mouth or other genitals needs to be in contact with ones genitals so as to get genital herpes.
Knowing that it is highly likely that a PA occured, I can assume that a lot of her anger towards me comes from guilt. She sees me not giving up on our marriage, but in her mind, she has done some terrible things and cant see why I cant just give up. She even told me "why cant you be a real man and just find someone better than me". She also indicated that she would like to see me go out, but to be safe and wear protection. This almost validates to me her guilt that she wants me to do the same as she has done. I have told her that as long as I have my wedding rings on and am legally married that there is no way I could ever be with another woman. I just could not respect a woman that would have a PA or EA with a married man, just like I feel that men that take advantage of a married woman such as my wife are scum and have no honor among good men. She also resents it when I say the 2 guys she met in the night clubs and talks to on the phone are nothing but dishonorable scum in my mind.
I have told her that it is possible to rebuild our relationship if she has an affair and she regrets her decision. She did not believe any man could do this. I told her that I have read about it occuring often. I told her that it would require work on both of our part to regain trust. I told her that in the case of a PA done in a drunken state, that I feel this would be far easier for me to forgive than an EA.
I get the feeling that if she has had an affair, that she is very afraid of the shame it would bring upon her from friends and family. She says she does not care what others think if she were to walk away from a great marriage, but like most things she says when she is angry, I dont believe it.
I had thought before about her using me to get a permanent stay here in the USA, but looking back over 8 loving years of our marriage, there is nothing to indicate that she did not have anything but love and respect for me. I believe her problem is something that is very new and has come up since she got her preschool teaching job and started going out with her coworker.
In some of her recent talks in trying to justify her lack of love with me, she says things like she had 3 miscarriages before our first son was born, she feels chained down to the committment of marriage and that I dont own her. None of these were very good arguments on why not too love someone. She says she does not want to be attached to anyone right now, but be free to go out on dates if she desires in the future.
I totally understand that I just need to give her a lot of time and space so she can find her desire and happiness in life. I am confident she will reflect upon our special family and eventually change her mind.
I am going to start carrying my mp3 player so as to possibly record one of her irrational out bursts. I dont have anything else to show that she is unstable as she appears happy and friendly during her regular day to day work and activities.
I am hoping that her mother and brother can help her find herself. I had suggested to her when she had the last big "I destroyed her life" scream at me that she really needs to seek some counseling - not counseling for our marriage problem, but for what appears to me as someone craziness of going off the deep end. She needs to get back to the teachings of her religion (Buddism) if she does not want all of her bad karma to come back on her in her next life. Even though I am not religious, it sure seems to me that she is building a good case to be reincarnated as a mosquito.
I got to do a quick test tonight - I noticed my wife grab and use my chapstick on my dresser before leaving to go do her workout (or meet with possible OM). I reminded her that our D sometimes grabs that and uses it herself and we dont want D to get herpes. My wife just kinda shrugged and said ok in a cold tone. I wonder if she probably already realizes that you cant get genital herpes from chapstick.
Maybe I misunderstood what you said about married people having an EA and/or PA. Did you mean you would not respect them if they had it with another married person or if they had it with anyone? B/c you have told your W conflicting messages....at least it seems that way to me. In other words, she is practically pushing you out the door to have an A with somebody so she won't feel as guilty about her own, and she is still going out---probably meeting with OM, but you are trying to convince her that you want the M to work out b/c you can forgive her.....if she had a PA in a drunken state. So, in other words, it is ok if she is drunk everytime she sleeps with OM. But then you have told her that people that have A are scum, but you can forgive her "if" she was drunk at the time of a PA. That would be a one night stand.....or just plain sleeping around.....not an affair, IMHO. I think you are just tryinging to find some way out for what she has done.
And, how can you say that an EA is worse than a PA? Anyway, it seems confusing to me, but that is the message I am reading into this, but of course, I'm sure I'm wrong....it's just the way it is coming across in the post.
I agree that she needs serious C for her problems. If she has already contacted a disease, it is just a matter of time before she contacts another STD. I would be scared to touch her not knowing what she may have. If she doesn't care who she sleeps with and passing this to and doesn't worry about her own children picking up any germs from her (although, I agree with you about the lipstick, but it is the principle of the thing) then she doesn't care who she infects. There again tells you that she has some serious problems.
Regarding people who have EA's........since I was one of those people, I guess that means you don't respect me either, so you won't respect any advice I might offer. I did not have an EA but it was not with a married man, but I am still married, so I suppose that would apply to me as well. I didn't leave my H, and I never met the OM in real life, and we are working things out in the M. I think, personally, that it was much better to break off the EA instead of going all the way into a PA. Anyway, I do hope you won't be so judgemental toward everyone in general until you know the personal facts behind their stitch. I use to think the same way as you do, until I found myself in the same situation. I thought if there was one thing I would never be tempted with, it would be to get emotionally involved with OM, but when a woman is very unhappy and her H is not doing anything to meet her emotional needs.....it can happen easier than you would imagine.
Well, good luck to you and your family. I wish you the best.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
