To listen – to actively listen and show that I care about what I’m hearing even if I don’t agree with it. If I don't listen, he'll stop talking.
To give space – he is not leaving me or cheating on me just because he wants to go and have a few drinks with friends and I am not invited.
To no be clingy – to give affection an attention is one thing, to NEED his company to make me feel better is not right.
To understand “my” schedule isn’t everyone else’s – if I need him to do something it does not mean that he is going to do it in the same time frame I would have done it in
To allow change and to change – at work I am in constant change, in a constant state of learning, my relationship should be like that too. Always learning and changing in new ways to make it better.
To let things go – does it really matter that he let the kids have desert even though they didn’t finish all their dinner? Does it really matter that he can’t seem to remember to throw the empty tissue box away?
Everything isn’t about me – if he’s upset, it doesn’t have to be because I did or didn’t do something and he’s mad. Even when he’s short with me, it doesn’t have to be about me. He’ll let me know when he has a problem with me, other than that I shouldn’t assume I’m at blame.
I should have a R and a life – they are not the same thing, a R is part of having a life, not life itself
Happiness comes from me – I am responsible for my happiness, not my XH, not my kids, not my family or friends. I am and it’s up to me to keep myself happy.
A happier me = a happier R – when I am happy and in a good mood it spreads to those around me, including XH. Therefore if I am happier, my XH will be happier, my R will be happier, my life will be happier. It’s a circle that I control.
It’s okay to have a bad day – Bad days happen. Bad things happen. All I can do is deal with them as they come the best I can.
JJ
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quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- One easy thing to start is to find a topic w likes to talk about that is not too personal or emotionally charged. For my w it was her office politics. Then you listen closely as she talks--really, really listen and you'll learn a whole lot about her emotional world--the things that piss her off and make her happy & you'll get to hear how she reacts to various things, but you have to really engage and be present in these conversations. When she mentions things that will happen in the future, make a mental note of them and ask her about them later on. Find strands of topics that you can bring up again to show your involvement in the conversation. Try to enter or "feel into" the feelings she describes. Don't try to solve anything and never even offer any advice unless it is very specifically asked for and don't ever correct her or tell her she's wrong. Just shut up and listen with your whole body and not just your head.
JJ
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(From Sheri) The distance is mostly why my H had an affair -- I wasn't there for him. So I'm starting to get confused on what I really need to do. On the other hand, I've always been available to him. I'm no longer available - I sometimes don't answer the phone, if I know he is calling, I take the phone off the hook, ect. But now I feel that he is drifting further away. I should do what my gut tells me, since every person is different. I just don't want to make this situation any worse then it is. Sheri
(From ILM) Sheri, it is not the distance why they have an affair. If you were, say, sick, or away from home ar work, or busy -- this is all what makes them/us see it as an obstacle and want the company even more.
You were available for him and he still had an affair -- perhaps, there was something else, like hostility, in you beeng there for him? And something more important than simply physical presence was missing?
What makes them feel abandoned, deprived of love, unappreciated is something else -- when you withold your love as a punishment, or abandon them when you have choice and when they say "please, stay, I need you now" -- but you don't care about it and go where it's more interesting. It is also when you don't talk as friends -- most of us seem to go throught the same, lack of time, kids, careers -- and all of a sudden we discover that we live in a house with a roomamate, noticing his.her presence only when he/she does something "wrong" -- then we open the moth to say something nasty.
What works to bring others closer is when you stay far enough to be not annoying and remain close enough to be there for them when they feel they want to talk or just be with you.
As one good friend of mine (and women, friends, children, dogs -- all always seek his company, and he is very warm and caring but never intrusive) put it once: "The secret is to show that you're interested but don't really "need" it".
In other words, when you keep the distamce, make sure it is a friendly distance: when you don't answer teh phone, he doesn't need to know that you did it on purpose, all he has to know is that you were not there -- what a pity!
When in doubt, always imagine yourself in his shoes: if you knew that he doesn't answer the phone on purpose, that when you try to reach out, he pushes you away -- would you continue your attempts to establish a contact, especially, it you were not very interested? And now imagine the opposite: when you are trying to reach him, there are obstacles, and very friendly he says that he would really like to get together (== he has no bad felings toward you), but what a pity! he has to be somewhere else instead. Keeping you in limbo -- if there is always a promise on the other end but obstacles to overcome, doesn't it make the desired things even more desired?
Again -- TWO steps forward, ONE step back -- not vice versa.
JJ
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Question: Do you love her & want to make things work?
If you do, I would not allow your anger (which is understandable that you have now), influence how you treat her at this time. I know it must be hard living in the same home, yet 'separate'. If you really love her & want to work things out, I WOULD NOT WITHHOLD SUPPORT from her. This would be an angry & retaliatory action. No way she could perceive it otherwise. Read some other threads on here. Read especially the success stories. See what has worked for others. From what I have seen, several key things that seem to have turned around others relationships are:
1. LOVINGLY detatch & give them space.
2. Work on yourself - treat yourself good. Go out & do things you enjoy, work out, get involved in a hobby or take a class, dress nicely according to your taste...on & on. If you feel you have things you need to work out - consider counseling w/ an SBT counselor in your area.
3. Read & practice DBing.
4. Offer your friendship, w/o expecting anything in return. Be there for her if she comes to you for help, or a shoulder to lean on.
5. After reading DBing, identify YOUR more of the same behaviors. Remind yourself of the results...STOP that & replace it w/ new behavior that works. Make a plan for how you will deal w/ situations as they arise.
6. Let her know you love her & want to work things out - but once you have stated that - leave it alone.
7. SHOW her - don't tell her - you are changing.
8. Continue to come to this BB.
9. Build yourself a network of support: this BB, family, friends - & use it!
10. Be thankful for 'baby steps' of progress.
11. Be consistent - when she starts to notice change, it's important that she gets a chance to see that it will be lasting.
12. Reward her efforts & good behavior, WITH A REWARD SHE WILL LIKE.
DON'T:
1. Push her to make a decision, let her come to that point.
2. Don't repeat yourself, or repeat requests for change.
3. Don't cry, beg, plead or do anything else to sound desperate.
4. Don't make unnecessary contact w/ her - she will interpret this as pushing / chasing.
5. Don't respond to her in anger, or w/ bitterness (instead respond in love).
6. Don't let her push your buttons (more of the same behavior) You will need to ID your buttons & how she pushes them, & be prepared w/ a NEW response.
7. Don't sit around & feel sorry for yourself (I know, easier said than done). When you do - pick yourself up & do something!
8. Don't expect results overnight, it took time to get where you are, & will take time to correct it.
9. Don't give up!
10. If you backslide (which I think we all do) don't let it get you down...just identify your mistake, make a new plan for how to avoid it in the future, & go on!
JJ
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A method I have used is to allot only a certain time each day to the "situation". I only think in a concentrated manner about my wife when I run. I try to limit my thinking to costructive thoughts only. You know, like how would I feel if I were her, putting myself in her place so I will be in a mental state to empathize with her rather than present my own needy feelings. Anytime during the day that my mind begins go to my situation I immediately switch to a part of myself that I am trying to develop. For instance, if my mind wanders to what my wife may be doing or thinking I try to take a physically active step towards something upon which I am working. I will usually go hug my son for no reason whatsover. I am working on showing more love. So instead of allowing my mind to go where it shouldn't, I take a physical (a physical activity occupies both the mind and the body) action in the direction of an area in which I wish to improve. If I can't do the physical action, I will always do a mental action.
This has worked for me very well but it has taken time to develop my mind to switch in such a manner.
You may wish to try this. Let me know if it works or share anything with me that you may come up with.
David
JJ
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Eliminate resentment and negativity from your life. Nothing will kill an R faster. If you spend your time focusing on the actions of others, such as your WAS, you have not accomplished this step. If you find yourself reactionary when dealing with your WAS, you have not accomplished this step. Obsession about why our WAS is doing evil things, is negativity, and it breeds resentment and contempt.
Think about it.
JJ
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When I first began this process in earnest my 180s were much like that of most of us. My one big thing was not following my wife around like a puppy dog. I gave her space and kept myself busy doing things I enjoy. I stopped talking about R in any way. No matter how much I wanted to say something, I didn't. I made sure to end all conversations, but in a nice way. If I was at work while we talked on phone, I simply said "I gotta go - customer.
I made sure to walk in the door smiling, I wore cologne every day, bought clothes I normally wouldnt, watched my manners (please and thank you), spoke slowly and softly.
Then, at one point, as noted in this thread I realized it was time to change things a bit. I kept up the aforementioned things, but added a different aspect. I started to "romance" her a little. Nothing upfront or pushy. Basically I acted as if she was a woman I knew and had interest in. I took nothing for granted and expected nothing in return. Much like you would in a new relationship. I watched her reactions and adjusted my actions accordingly.
That has brought us to where we are now. I think of her as my girlfriend now. I treat her as such. Always making sure to gauge and react and make sure she is comfortable. I make no demands (except once when I clearly made a sexual comment - which was a 180 at THAT moment). So...I think that is the "sweet spot". Somewhere between being unselfish and non pushy while being caring, supportive, attractive and yes, "sexy". The trick is to not seem too aloof but also not seem needy.
It really is a lot like the early stages of a brand new relationship. I still doubt this will all work out, but I am a far better person than 5 motnhs ago, and my relationship with my wife and kids is dramatically better.
Patience, and genuine thoughtfulness are my friends.
JJ
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As in: I am so grateful to have found this thread! I have read every post here and recommend all other newbies do the same! Make it mandatory reading for yourself! What a blessing!
Ask: "What am I grateful for today?" and "How does that make me feel?" Being sure to really tune in and associate to the powerful, loving feelings those questions may evoke!
I can relate so much to your feelings about your marriage. I started posting here I think last May. My original post, like yours was mainly about my stale marriage and I asked for help in "rekindling" the fire. I bought Michele's book "Divorce Busting" right off the internet. It saved not only my marriage, but ME!
I too asked my H if he was happy, but my H said no. He told me he loved me, but he didn't think he wanted to be married or a dad anymore. He felt terrible about these feelings but he needed to express them. Well after many long months and me working my butt off, we have "rekindled" the fire. Some very simple steps on my part I feel saved us.
1) I have made a deliberate decision to greet him at the door every day when he gets home from work. This was my first step and boy did it spark a light in his eye the first day I did it. I used to let the kids run to him yelling "Daddy's home, Daddy's home". I'd carrying on with what ever I was doing (cooking, cleaning, talking on the phone) and merely say "Hi honey". Sometimes a kiss, most times not! Greeting him at the door with a kiss, a hug and a smile, brought on the affection I needed from him as well. Key: Make the first move, show him you are happy to see him. Show him that coming home to you will bring sweet rewards.
2)I focused on only positive aspects of my day to talk about, knowing that he has very stressful days at work. I used to try to make my days seem more stressful than his, in hopes of relieving his stress and showing him that he is not the only one having bad days. I realized from my readings (Divorce Busting) that this was actually adding to his stress and making him more irritable and stressed and maybe even contributed to his coming home later, and later and later. (Sometimes not till 9:00 at night. Now he is home by 6:00 and that would be a late night for him. Many nights he is home by 5:00)Key: Create a comforting, positive environment for him at home. He needs to see you and his home as a safe place. Safe from stress and negativity. He gets that the minute he leaves starting with traffic, then customers, bills, employees, and all their issues. Be his safe haven and create a calm, comfortable positive home for him to come home to. Make him not want to leave. It will work.
3)Do or read or go somewhere new each day. It will help you to keep growing and blossoming and will get rid of the "staleness" in your own self. I have two young children and I am a stay at home mom. I am not a shopper so my days are not real exciting. I am content, but there wasn't much conversation to offer to my h when he would get home. So first I began to read. I got Divorce Busting first. At first it was awkward to talk about "relationship" stuff with him, but I found he was really open to the conversation and we started to rekindle our relationship and began to reconnect on areas of our relationship that we had taken for granted. Which brought me to number 4.
4) Spend more time away. We had stopped getting away alone. I had been getting a babysitter every weekend, but it seemed we were both bored going out on the same old dates. (Dinner, movie, home) So, one weekend a while back, I planned a trip to a hotel, got us both booked for massages (our firsts) and surprised him. He was so delighted. Since then we have gotten away alot. We went camping, went to Canada four-wheeling. We have been like two new people who just started dating. Remember when you used to go away together on little weekenders when you first met. Remember how great it felt to "get away". Well it still does. Make the time, surprise him, and get away. Key: Show him you want him now just as much as when you first met. Have fun, be playful.
5)The sex thing. In my situation, I, like many women, let him do all the iniating and foreplay. Well without going into graphic detail, when I changed this part of my marriage and became more creative and playful and iniated sex more, my H, needless to say was like a bee with his own honey pot. You want to see a sparkle in a man's eye, put on a sexy nighty and tell him you want him. And you start the back rub, and don't let him touch you until you have touched every inch of him with your hands and maybe even your tongue. Key: Put him into his most secretive fantasy, make him think only about you and the night before the next day while he is at work. It is possible, make it happen.
6)Send flowers, cards, emails, lunches with notes on the napkin. Anything little that will remind him you love him on a daily basis.
Sorry this got kind of long, but these are just a few suggestions. Once you start going, you'll surely have some of your own creative ways to put a sparkle back in his eye. And wait till you see how your changed behavior will affect him, it will make you want to come up with more and more ways to spoil him and you will have a great time doing all these new things. Have fun and I am glad your son is doing well too! You sound like a dedicated wife and mom. Make sure you take care of you too!
Glad to meet you.
Faith
JJ
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I thought I'd start a new thread devoted to the subject of writing letters to our WASes. I've been on this BB for over a year and I've seen countless Newcomers who are newbies desperately trying to get through to the wayward spouse that the M can be salvaged.
When I was new to the BB, I was in so much pain, turmoil, felt utter despair and was desperately trying to get my WAS to realize that our M can be salvaged through honest introspection and communication. It was through the wonderful support of other DB veterans such as Ellie, Sage, Eyesopened, StubbornDyke, and JJ that I realized that writing a letter to my spouse will only serve as a painful reminder of our fractured M. Actually, writing a letter to the WAS is classified as a R talk. I've discovered through time that initating any form of R talk early in the stages of separation will only backfire as it puts unneccessary pressure on the WAS.
Many WASes are extraordinarily pained people with raw and tender emotions from all the arguing, fighting, bomb dropping and feeling totally helpless in working on the M. Any letter writing to the WAS can be very guilt-inducing and it only serves to push them further away. When DBing, one must constantly stop and think: Will this action bring me closer to the goal? Personally, asking this question each time I consider undertaking any action and/or communication with my spouse has saved me countless times from making what could be considered destructive mistakes that could damage the marriage's chances of healing.
Many of us are anxious to convey our intermost thoughts on love, commitment, desire to really work on the marriage and get through to our WAS that we are willing to move heaven and earth to restore the marriage and/or family unit. The problem with this approach is that it only serves to reinforce the WAS' mind of why we didn't do that stuff earlier when they voiced their concerns and/or unhappiness with the M. They walk away with a huge bundle of resentment and wounded emotions.
The advice I've received from DB vets and I am going to pass it on to the newbies here is this: You can write a letter to your spouse and PUT IT away. As time goes on, you can go back and re-write it as many times as you can. It could be the expression and pouring of your anguish, hopes & dreams and desires. Or it could be a forgiveness letter to the WAS who betrayed and wounded you in unimaginable ways. Forgiveness is not a one-step process, but an on-going process as you reach for new, higher levels of understanding and awareness as you go further along on your path. It can be a very cathartic process that benefits only YOU.
The bottom line here is this: DO NOT send the letter to your WAS. Instead, utilize and implement the techniques outlined in the DR book. They are solution and action oriented in turning around the M. Actions speak louder than words. I have, personally, come to the conclusion that writing letters to our spouses is a form of control in a way that we have this set of expectations that they will come running back into arms if they could only understand the depth of our pain and anguish. We can only do one thing that can actually save the M which is a display of quiet courage in letting the WAS go and allow them to work through their pain and confusion. Our job is to support them on the journey through our own loving actions and words. They need the soothing balm of love which emanates from loving thoughts that translates into loving words and actions.
JJ
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