Thanks frank. It would be easier if she were just mad all the time. Her anger, after almost two years, actually helps me move on. But when her *feelings* for me or the family come back, it really hurts. A repeat hurt.
Does that make any sense?
No, I do not feel like an A-hole. Poor wording on my part. What I meant to say is that she believes that I am an A-hole and if I respond with anger and resentment that would confirm her opinion, in her mind. I see now it is better not to get wrapped up in "her intensity" as you put it, so she has no easy confirmation of her position.
She is on travel this week, left yesterday. I got a call last night, thought it was FIB. But it was fW. She said hi and I was just in shock a bit - she never calls, just sends an email "safe arrival".
Very long pause. She says "well I made it". She asked how I was and proceeded to tell me about her trip, how she had a bad headache, and her hotel - how she hit the exercise room, etc. She commented how hard it was to leave the kids. I listened mostly. Her call duplicated the calls she made when we were still together.
Then she said she had a few topics to discuss. I thought, here it comes (remember she was a total bi*ch the day before). Instead she talked about the kid's homework and things I needed to do (make sure they read, S10 has a spelling test this week so go over his words, etc). Sort of a lecture on things I already knew, but I just listened without comment. She made a cheerful goodby and I gave the phone to the kids.
It would be better for me if she just stayed angry.
Thanks frank. It would be easier if she were just mad all the time. Her anger, after almost two years, actually helps me move on. But when her *feelings* for me or the family come back, it really hurts. A repeat hurt.
Does that make any sense?
Absolutely. You want her to give you reasons to dislike her so you can bring this all to a conclusion and 'move on'. It's much easier than opening your heart up and allowing yourself to be vulnerable.
When her *feelings* come back, you sure do a good job of squashing them whenever possible - if by nothing else by not nurturing them or mirroring them back to her. You shut down or show indifference or anger instead.
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I see now it is better not to get wrapped up in "her intensity" as you put it, so she has no easy confirmation of her position.
Do you see that in the first year of this whole situation you helped her justify herself by being angry every time you interacted with her? You became part of her intensity, and fed the monster.
I'm not going to say you 'messed up', you were hurt, you were having trouble staying 'the rock'. She told you what she needed, to find her own control over her life, and she expressed her anger over not feeling like her life has been her own, but targeted it at you.
You took it as anger AT YOU, it wasn't though. I believe that she has anger at herself, the typical MLC type anger of 'is this all I am?'. The anger of feeling like her life has been about others, and not about her wants and desires. Part of that anger, which my W also focused at me, is the feeling that she let you be in charge and she didn't make decisions on her own and that really makes her feel vulnerable.
Now, you aren't doing that any more. You know it's not about you. It never was. Yet there is still the hurt little boy who is holding back from allowing any friendly contact to be - friendly on both sides.
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She is on travel this week, left yesterday. I got a call last night, thought it was FIB. But it was fW. She said hi and I was just in shock a bit - she never calls, just sends an email "safe arrival".
Very long pause. She says "well I made it". She asked how I was and proceeded to tell me about her trip, how she had a bad headache, and her hotel - how she hit the exercise room, etc. She commented how hard it was to leave the kids. I listened mostly. Her call duplicated the calls she made when we were still together.
"Her call duplicated the calls she made when we were still together. "
What's with the 'very long pause'? Would you treat someone else that way? How rude do you feel you need to be to her? Is the little boy still mad at her? Not gonna give her any positive energy any more? You supported her when her mom died and other times recently. Why not now during 'real life'?
Every time she reaches out to you your first reaction is to be stand offish and punish her for her angry deeds. Where is the forgiveness?
What would Jesus do? How would he treat another human being?
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Then she said she had a few topics to discuss. I thought, here it comes (remember she was a total bi*ch the day before). Instead she talked about the kid's homework and things I needed to do (make sure they read, S10 has a spelling test this week so go over his words, etc). Sort of a lecture on things I already knew, but I just listened without comment. She made a cheerful goodby and I gave the phone to the kids.
"She made a cheerful goodby and I gave the phone to the kids."
She called YOU Jacka$$. The kids are your common bond but it was YOU she talked to first about her trip, how she was feeling and other stuff. She could have just talked to you about the kids schedule then asked to talk to them.
Sharing her experiences with YOU is a form of intimacy. If you don't believe me ask any woman on this board.
The tone I get from your post is you just said nothing, you were silent, you didn't give her any positives in the conversation. Is that true?
How about showing some interest in what she has to say? Maybe some encouragement? How about being fun to talk to?
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It would be better for me if she just stayed angry.
Would it? Get out of the pity party you're in. I've been there too ya know. I see so many positives here that it makes me sick.
Maybe if you thought about it this way: she's your kids mother and you're glad that she's reaching out to you in small ways.
Let's just say that your divorce happens and for the next 15-20 years you have to deal with her over kids and other stuff? Wouldn't it be better for you and the kids if you were always the one who was positive, upbeat and glad to talk to her? Even if it's just because the other choice - angry and fighting - sucks?
But more importantly, why are you on this board? "Divorced but not done"? It seems like YOU are done, or at least you want to be. DBing is too much work because it requires you to do things you really don't want to do. Like be pleasant and validate the fact that she does call YOU, that she shows you some RESPECT.
Maybe you should be on "Surviving the big D" since you have pretty much decided by deeds and actions that it's over? Go open a thread there so we can all validate "She's a btch" and get you over this. Go ahead. I dare you.
or...
Maybe you could think about what is happening. Some people would call these 'baby steps'. One thing for sure, if you recall reading Cunninghams stuff he states that even if divorce is inevitable, you NEED to work on attraction because that will temper the anger and make it less difficult to resolve issues.
Sometimes, he says, it even stops the divorce.
I know you hurt, I know you feel old, I know you feel alone. I hear you. I feel your pain.
It's not serving you to stay angry or stuck like this. Why not resolve to be the most interesting and positive person you can be when she is reaching out to you, and to be the rock who doesn't get phased by her emotional outbursts? Isn't that the kind of man you would want to be with Any woman you know?
You've read the books and you know the concepts. It's time to get up, get back on your feet and become the man who is above all this pettiness. Be someone your W might actually start to LIKE.
I believe in you. I've read your words and see the insights you have. Now, apply them to your own life.
If you're going to stay on "Divorced but not done" then here's an idea: Why don't you find a time to call her when you're pretty sure she's not busy, and maybe ask HER how her headache is and how's her trip going? She may switch to 'angry mode', she may not. But when she asks why you called you can tell her that you were just checking in to see if she was feeling better, nothing more.
Or, when she calls, ASK her about it then. Show her that you actually paid attention to her. That you actually care. Nothing big, just allow her to see that how she feels is important to you. What do you have to lose?
But more important, what do you have to gain? Maybe peace and closure. Maybe something more.
You know you don't have control over anybody but yourself, don't you? The way your fw or anyone else for that mater will interact with you will change according to their state of mind at that particular moment. If they're a bit frazzled of seriously P.ed off about something they will be communicating totally differently than if they were relatively happy.
My w is different every time I see her. If by some chance I'm at the family home and lover boy is there she is totally cold and distant towards me. I really can't understand why she would be feeling uncomfortable. Other times she is a bit stand offish or even starts chatting about nothing. I can never tell what she will be like but I can tell what I'll be like. Cool, calm & collected.
As far as standing, moving on or living in limbo goes my slant currently is to just get on with my life. (My w certainly seems to have adopted this credo.) If sometime in the future she comes around we will just have to see what happens.
I try to make all interaction with the w positive ones but must admit that lately I've been guilty of being a bit distant towards her. I really don't feel anger towards the w, more a lasting feeling of bitter disappointment, any pedestal that she was once on is now long gone.
Jeff try to look at the positives in your life, you've just had thanksgiving over there haven't you. Try to make every day a thanksgiving day rather than a woe is me day.
Maybe it all does not pertain to you, but I really didn't know what to say, and I don't want you to seem down, when you are so great.
Catch Negative Thoughts
Another important suggestion in overcoming depression is to catch your negative thoughts as they occur.
"Much of depression is fed, fueled, and maintained by excessive negative thinking: I don't think I can do this. I don't think this is going to work," says Dr. Archibald Hart. "You need to challenge those negative thoughts because they keep the depression going. In fact they don't just keep it going, they make it worse."
Second Corinthians 10:5 says: "We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ."
With every negative thought that comes into your head, practice that exercise. Picture yourself capturing the negative thought in your hands and demolishing it before you even have a chance to think about it. After you demolish it, picture yourself handing it quickly over to God. Then replace the negative thought with a positive one. Repeat this exercise as often as necessary. Make it a habit to catch those bad thoughts.
"Summing it all up, friends, I'd say you'll do best by filling your minds and meditating on things true, noble, reputable, authentic, compelling, gracious—the best, not the worst; the beautiful, not the ugly; things to praise, not things to curse" (Philippians 4:8 Msg).
Lord Jesus, I give You my negative thoughts right now. Please replace those thoughts with good ones. Help me to focus on the blessings You have given me. Amen.
Live Simply Love Generously Care Deeply Speak Kindly Leave the rest to God
I have NO feelings left for her one way or the other.
You read anger and self-pity and negatives.
That is not it at all. I feel nothing; I no longer care.
That is where I am at. You and others may not agree but it is a very good place to be.
Two years is enough.
I only record her recent mood swings only to illustrate that when we finally do move on for real, we somehow become attractive to them again.
That is great and I will build on that as we co-parent our kids. I will try to maintain a friendly relationship - but I do not pretend to be Jesus either. My best friend is my W - she is no longer my W.
Frankly, I have nothing more than that to give her.
I try to make all interaction with the w positive ones but must admit that lately I've been guilty of being a bit distant towards her. I really don't feel anger towards the w, more a lasting feeling of bitter disappointment, any pedestal that she was once on is now long gone.
That is exactly what has been happening to me. This sorrow of disappointment is there but the bitterness is almost fully gone.
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I can never tell what she will be like but I can tell what I'll be like.
That is me also. I use the term "consistent"; my mood around her is friendly but detached with little emotion.
Best of all it is not "act as if" - I really feel detached from her drama now. Finally.
I have NO feelings left for her one way or the other.
You read anger and self-pity and negatives.
That is not it at all. I feel nothing; I no longer care.
That is where I am at. You and others may not agree but it is a very good place to be.
Whether I agree or not is not important. It's what you believe that matters here.
Well, except, when you said: "But when her *feelings* for me or the family come back, it really hurts. A repeat hurt."
That doesn't seem like 'I no longer care'. Hurt, love, they are all part of the same set of feelings.
I'm not usually this dense I guess, but I re-read your posts and I stand by my previous post. You are reacting out of hurt, anger and some depression. Your W is starting to see you in a different, more positive light, and you're too afraid to risk. That's ok, it's where you are. Whatever decisions you make are yours to make and nobody is going to judge you for them. You're a good a decent man and have earned my respect and the respect of others.
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I only record her recent mood swings only to illustrate that when we finally do move on for real, we somehow become attractive to them again.
A very sanitized and disconnected place to be. The recorder of information. Emotionless, logical. How long can you suppress the feelings? I did it for several months. How long can you do it?
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That is great and I will build on that as we co-parent our kids. I will try to maintain a friendly relationship - but I do not pretend to be Jesus either. My best friend is my W - she is no longer my W.
True, but is the only other choice to be 'best friend'? As I said, at least be coordial to her.
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Frankly, I have nothing more than that to give her.
Yes, it was time for a new forum.
I'm sorry to hear that. I thought I saw some movement.
Why is Jeff being bashed so hard for having big swings of emotions on a holiday, on his birthday, and when his W suddenly has a spurt of nice?
Frank, I know you care but what are you trying and expecting to accomplish? Jeff says he is done, he no longer cares. I don't totally believe that but it is what he says. Respect it.
Jeff, that long silence when you get an unexpected call from W and she is nice. Caught you off guard? I bet you didn't know how to react! It's easy to know now how it could have been handled different, but at the time of happening it catches you by surprise and you bumble. Yeah, me too. On those sporadic ocassions when H is nice and I see a shadow of the man I love(d) I know I don't react how I wish I did. I just don't have much practice in reacting to a nice H anymore. I wish I did, and just maybe some day I will. Until then, I can only do as best I can when I am caught off guard and learn by my mistakes. You too.
And Jeff, I did not use fW like you do. She isn't former yet. Don't count your chickens before the eggs hatch.
Live your life while you are still living. Riding the trail less traveled.
I appreciate you stopping by again frank. No, I will not try to get you to see my point of view. I record this b/c it helps me and maybe others.
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"But when her *feelings* for me or the family come back, it really hurts. A repeat hurt." That doesn't seem like 'I no longer care'.
You are right of course. I would be less than human if I had no reaction to being at her mom's funeral or seeing her at my mom's B'Day. I had a strong reaction to seeing her family again - I considered them my family. I had a strong reaction to her hugging me. I had a strong reaction when she came to see my mom. Her phone calls and asking about my feelings brought back memories.
Again, I am just that human.
It was like opening up a wound. Pain and hurt.
But this time, rather than bleeding all over the place I saw that the wound was closed - the scar tissue was pulled away and under it was healing.
The initial pain was there, but it quickly faded. Some of the pain was from shock more than anything, as WCW suggests. The shock of seeing the "old her" after so long a time.
Am I totally healed? Of course not. But the feelings I had for her and the hopes for restoration of the R are gone.
I feel pity for her and sorrow for the situation. And I feel the disappointment that Paul refers to above.
But the love is gone.
Am I suppressing my feelings? Maybe, but I really think not.
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I stand by my previous post. You are reacting out of hurt, anger and some depression.
A year ago I would have agreed with you. Even six months ago.
Not now. Sooner or later you process the anger, you assess the situation, you see things missed before.
You begin to see a different reality and how you must move on b/c it is the most healthy thing to do and that she is no longer right for me.
You process or you get stuck. Being stuck is no way to live.
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Your W is starting to see you in a different, more positive light, and you're too afraid to risk.
I am an engineer. When we assess the risk of a design passing a test or being built on time, if the risk is over 50% it is not considered a risk - it must be planned for as going to happen.
This is not a risk for me. She has done nothing but hurt me and my family for almost two years now. Nothing suggests that will change. Risk? I would be a pure masochist if I continued to hold out hope here. It is never okay to let another person hurt us.
That is where I am. The feelings I had no longer exist. You claim they are suppressed. They are not.
They are out in the open and I embrace them b/c they liberate me to explore life again, not just to focus on trying to repair something that cannot be repaired.
Wishing things were otherwise does not make them true.
That my friend is the greatest disorder of the mind.
