WAW says "I'm filing for D", but no papers

[mako]

I wish I could offer something in the way of advice, but this is outta my league I think.

I do have to say--you have gone through a heck of a lot of grief for a heck of a long time. You must really love your wife and family, and have the patience of a saint. Those are admirable qualities. Hang in there...you're right, it doesn't seem sane, but as long as you can keep yourself sane, well that beats the alternative.

[SirPrizeMe]

Mako, thanks. Thanks for the kind words.

I do love my family and I love my wife, even though she has become an ALIEN.

I feel like this is outta my league, too.

Four kids. And they are all gorgeous, beautiful children. All so young and innocent and sweet.
!!!

(shakes head)

She didn't have the decency to call me of course, to let me know the papers were coming. I phoned her when I heard from my attorney. When I spoke to her, she commented that I am a good person, that she sees the positive in me, I'm a good father. She just doesn't love me any more and she can't try.

It was when I asked her to consider counseling rather than filing that the accusations came out. Then someone the phone got disconnected. Hmmmm...

I guess I just strap in for one more run of the rollercoaster, for now.

If she still sees some positive in me (good father, good person), maybe that is the seed of something that will grow later. More patience.

Sometimes I think I am lying to myself. My friends think I am pitiful putting up with all of this. I think maybe she sees that too, and how could she ever reconcile with someone so pitiful. (But then maybe I think too much!)

We'll see where the D process goes. I never thought I would ever be in this position. Never. When I got married I made a commitment. A happy but solemn commitment. Good times and bad.

I guess I will just get a life, figure out how to have fun, get a new place to live, watch in dismay as my marriage is dismantled, and see where life takes me.

For her part, she will need to GAJ (Get a Job) because the divorce will put much less money in her pocket than she has now.

This sure is shaping up to be a Merry Christmas !!

[SirPrizeMe]

OK, with papers filed, I am NOT giving up.

Does it make sense to send this to W's father? We've had a good relationship over the years.

I want to do it if it might help. I am worried I am doing it only for validation of my own position. I don't really need that. Is there anything to be gained by soliciting his assistance? Or will I only push her further away with this brutal honesty to her father?

VERY interested in advice on whether to send this or not.
It is to W's father, not W, but I have to assume it will get back to W eventually, if I send it.

Hi (Wife's father),

I want to thank you again for all the support you have offered to us, to (my wife), and to me personally, through this very difficult time.

I would also like to ask for your continued support.

You see, even after all the difficulties we've had, after the infidelity and the lies, even though (my wife) has filed for divorce, even though she feels that I have abused her for 20 years, I still believe this marriage is worth saving. I still love your daughter, I still love my family, and I still want what I believe is best for my children - I still want to reconcile with my wife.

As I told you, I spoke with (my wife) yesterday afternoon, after I heard from my attorney. I asked her to reconsider her decision to break up our family. I asked her to come back to counseling again with me. Again she refused, and again she recited her accusations of chronic abuse against me.

But before she did that, she made a remark that I think is very insightful; she said, with much emotion in her voice, "I can't go back in that room again with you."

That's the sticking point, (Wife's father). She cannot bear to face our problems in marriage counseling. It hurts too much to directly face it.

Because it hurts her too much, she's gone to great lengths to avoid going back into counseling. She's gone to great lengths to avoid confronting the problems in our marriage.

The affair was just one example of avoiding the problems she had with me in our marriage. Instead of coming to me to work out our problems, she went to another man. For this I take my share of credit: I was hard to approach, I was not receptive to her in the way I needed to be, I was oblivious to the problems. I take my share of the credit for this. I regret this deeply.

During the affair, she invented all sorts of lies about me, told these lies to the man, to justify her actions. She invented things, and then they became true for her. I don't mean she invented her feelings, I mean she invented incidents. Facts. She made things up. Just to make herself feel better about what she was doing. In my view, that lack of honesty has continued.

In the summer 2006, while the affair was going on actively, she got a cellphone bill that was over $700 (or maybe it was $400, I can't recall exactly now). I found out because she told me. I never looked at her bill. I never interrogated her. She assured me it was an oversight. She straightened it out with the service provider, she told me. I later learned that most of it was calls to her boyfriend. This is how I was - this is not controlling and abusive.

Since July 2006, when I found out my marriage was in crisis, I have worked to become more receptive, more open, a better listener, more understanding, more patient and calmer. And I have succeeded, although I can still stand to improve on all those points. My improvements are good FOR ME, as well as for anyone who knows me. (my wife) has even explicitly acknowledged and recognized my efforts and my improvements in these areas. Despite this she has still not been able to come toward me, to confront our problems.

We entered marriage counseling in the fall of 2006, and just when we got to the point where we could have made some progress, she restarted her relationship with that man. She lied to me about this, and continued attending counseling sessions, even though she was telephoning the man regularly and undermining the process. "I can't wait until this is all over with Dino" she wrote to him at that time. How do I know this? The man's wife sent me an email that (my wife) had sent to the man. This was in March 2007.

In the same email, (my wife) counseled the man, her friend, about his recent arrest for drunk driving. At the time, the man was going through his own divorce and was negotiating child custody rights as part of that divorce. (my wife) counseled the man to hide his drunk driving arrest from his wife, so as not to damage his child custody rights. Let me ask you something: is that the voice of a mother? No! The old (my wife) would have been horrified that this man with a serious drinking problem would get child custody. Yet her she was assisting him in doing just that. This is just wrong. This is not the (my wife) I knew. I had this discussion with her at the time; she admitted to me, "I have been confused." What a hopeful realization that was to me!

I suggested a family vacation (at the beach) in the spring, hoping we could use some fun in the sun to rediscover what we love about each other. But as we were planning that vacation, she was communicating regularly with her affair partner. When I found out, I asked her to stop communicating with him. She tearfully promised me to "give him up." I remember it specifically. Bouyed by her renewed promise to me, we resumed our plans, and we went to (the beach). The promise didn't last.

The lying about her ongoing relationship with that man, even while we were supposedly in marriage counseling together, even while we supposedly were trying to recover our marriage, is another example of her refusal or inability to honestly work on her marriage.

I asked her to consider speaking with the priest who married us. He is a jolly old Irishman, and he loved us and our children. (my wife) always liked him, too. I spoke with him repeatedly over the summer, he is full of love and compassion for us. But (my wife) never could bring herself to contact him. She avoided it.

Her asking me to move out of the house in Spring 2007, was more avoidance. There was no immediate danger or threat to her. In fact, in the spring, the environment in the house was quiet and peaceful. Yet she was pushing me out, because she couldn't face the real problems. Avoidance.

She withdrew from our bedroom in April, and refused to go back to counseling with me in the summer. Just more avoidance.

She scheduled a date with that man, while I was still living in the house. She came home very late that night after her date, and she had not called to let me know that she'd be late. I asked "why didn't you call?" when she got in, and that started an argument, which totally surprised me. Why are we arguing about this? I Thought to myself at the time. Later I learned that she had been out to dinner with that man, and it explained her outburst.

During the summer, she repeatedly refused to re-start counseling. She continued to speak with her affair partner, even while you and (your wife) were visiting in July.

In June 2007, after I learned of her date with her boyfriend, I had asked her to give me three months - to stop talking to him for three months. She agreed, tearfully. I remember the date because three months would have brought us to our wedding anniversary - (xxxx). So it was early June when I asked her for that commitment, and she gave it to me.

In late August though, she told me that she still talks to the man, she still "calls him occasionally", that "he will always be her friend." This sentiment is obviously not consistent with wanting to work on the problems in the marriage. Keeping a boyfriend, or even remaining friends with an affair partner, is a good way to end a marriage.

When she made this statement to me, is when I decided to leave the house. I refused to accept her treatment of me, and while I regret leaving the house, I felt I had no other option. She had been asking me to leave, and treating me like hell. So I left. I should have stayed!!

The allegations about my patterns of abuse in our relationship are just more avoidance. It is demonization of me. It is contrived justification for her refusal to address the real problems. I'm telling you (Wife's father), it's not real.

I have been as patient and calm as (my wife) wanted, but this is not willful abuse on my part. I lacked skill in the relationship, but this is inadvertent and not what I want! I want to fix it, but she won't help me. She won't let me.

Her filing for divorce is just the logical conclusion of refusing to address problems. This is the frustrating part - it's not that we have identified the problems and found them intractable. It's not that she wants to live in (our hometown) and I refuse. It's not that she wants to live in the suburbs and I want the city. It's no one particular thing. She's ending the marriage without ever giving it a chance.

I see that I have not been the man she wanted me to be. I see that. I regret that I have failed her. I so much want to be the man for her. I want to be what she needs. I don't know exactly how to do that, and I've asked (my wife) to show me, by attending counseling with me. She has refused to do this. Instead she reiterates that our only problem was my chronic abuse of her, and she shuts me out of any possible solution.

(Wife's father), repeatedly saying that I have been abusive, doesn't make it so.

I've spoken to counselors who tell me all of this behavior is part of a common pattern. It is so common, there is a name for what she is doing - it is called "the walk away spouse". She has walked away from her marriage. Walk-away spouses avoid their problems, and will demonize their mates, will invent crimes, will exaggerate, all to justify their actions. What she is doing is right out of the textbooks.

----

In an effort to make it easier for her to come back to the marriage, I have tried to be patient. My summer was a summer of service for my wife - washing her car, doing laundry, washing dishes. You might remember from your visit to our house. That was not a show for you. That was not a temporary thing. That's what I do. That was me trying to show that I love (my wife) and I want her to stay.

In the summer, I'd play with the kids outside, and always invite her to come out, but she NEVER came outside just to play. Soccer, badminton, frisbee and other yard games. She refused to come out. Every time.

I have tried to be patient. I moved out of the house, but still all of my money goes to her and to the houses I do not live in. This seems really wrong to me, but it is where we are.

I ask you, is this what an abusive, dominating, controlling, and angry man would do? This is what she says I am: abusive, dominating, and controlling. She gets all the money, and lives in a beautiful house, while continuing to talk to her affair friend, and her husband lives in a room at a friend's house. Who is suffering emotional abuse here?

She goes to yoga classes during the day and volunteers as an art teacher, while I work every day to pay the bills, and I don't see my four beautiful children. Is this fair?

She asked for "space" so I stopped calling her. She has telephoned me perhaps 4 times in 9 months, going back to when she moved out of our bedroom. It's not "space" she wants, it's avoidance.

----

Yesterday morning, before I learned the divorce papers were coming, I had told you that I registered (my wife) and myself for an intense marriage counseling program, Retrouvaille, that starts in January. Retrouvaille means rediscovery. I have been asking (my wife) to re-start marriage counseling with me since April 2007. As I told you, she has consistently refused to do so. Despite this, I haven't given up on asking her. Even as she is filing for divorce, I am still asking her to go.

The weekend in January, if we actually attend together, would be an intensive therapeutic experience. It is conducted by Christian couples who have been through marriage crisis, including physical abuse, alcoholism, gambling, affairs and infidelity, emotional abuse, and so on. These are people who were on the brink of divorce, who had started divorce proceedings, some of them were even already divorced, and they recovered their marriages. These couples run the weekend. They tell their stories, and they offer advice on how to get back on track. It is not a solution to marriage troubles; it is a start at a solution. It only works if the people WANT it to work. And in those cases, it almost always WORKS.

The weekend runs from Friday evening, through all day Saturday, and Sunday. It is intensive and immersive. It involves withdrawing from everything outside the marriage - no children are involved, it requires us to stay on site, away from the family home.

For a long time I have asked (my wife) to return to counseling with me. This is yet another request on my part to do that, except this time I am making all the arrangements, so there is no practical thing that remains to be done. I am reserving a spot at the therapy, I'm paying the fee, I'm arranging babysitting. All she has to do is show up.

This therapy will occur while we are in the process of negotiating our divorce.

I am pretty sure that the idea of immersive therapy is terrifying to (my wife). If she can find the courage to show up, I think this will help us.

Even if she cannot show up for therapy, if she could delay or drop the divorce, even temporarily, if only to give us more time, that would be a benefit.

At this point, I don't think she knows how to get off the train.


----

(my wife) also said to me yesterday, in regard to her decision to marry me, "I made a mistake." I look at our four kids, and our 13 years of mostly very happy times, and I don't see a mistake. I see a good marriage, with some troubles. I know she sees it differently now. She sees our marriage as just one long black period. Look at our family photos across the years, and you'll see this isn't reality. Look at our four beautiful children and you know this marriage isn't a mistake.

I'm writing this to you, to ask for your further and continued support of my family, of this marriage, and of your daughter. I hate what she has done, what she is doing, but I don't hate her. I love her. I love my kids.

I hope you share a desire to support my family. I hope you will do what you can to support my efforts to rebuild my family. I thank you and my children thank you.

Remember when you came to our wedding? What a beautiful day it was! You came to support us in our decision to start our life as husband and wife together. I'm asking you to come to the wedding again. I'm asking you to support my family again. This time, with four lovely children, it is even more important. I don't know what exactly you can do, but if you can come to our wedding again, if you can support our family again, I will be eternally grateful.

Just reading what I wrote - some of what I did is clearly NOT DBing. Like asking her to resume counseling. Yes, I did that, 3 or 4 times in the summer. Always the same result.

Am I just running down that same tunnel again? I don't think so. I feel like this time it is different if maybe I can get her father to speak to her honestly and frankly about this. Her father is a very thoughtful, respectable man, with truly valuable perspective, who has been through his own divorce with W's mother. I know he wants to see this family stay intact. Maybe he can persuade her?

[ann25]

WOW... that was a long letter.

I know that I'm not in any place to be giving advice, being new to this and all, but I think that since she has never really had a close relationship with her father, if you send that and it does get back to her, she might think you guys are ganging up on her. Not sure what her state of mind is where he is concerned.

Here's what I think, just my opinion. I wouldn't send anything out unless you'd be okay with her reading it personally. If she read that, would it help or hinder your goal of reviving your marriage. What if he gave it to her, he probably wouldn't, but could you imagine?

I know it's hard, but if you really want to send something asking for his support I'd mention only the positive. How you love her and still want your M. How you'd love to resume C with her. How you'll keep working on it... I don't know about the other stuff tho!

Good Luck.

[smith18]

Your situation is so tragic, but not unlike so many others here. It is hard to understand a woman that does not want to try and preserve such a beautiful family.

I dont think you should send that letter to her father.

I think I understand why you want to. You probably believe that her father has a larger influence on his daughter than you and you are hoping that he may talk some sense into her. It may be that his talking to her could buy some time, but I think she will be so furious that you gave all these details to her father.

Also, consider that what you are saying in this letter is going to cause her father to lose more respect and love for his daughter. You dont want this. Take the higher ground.

Believe me, I made the mistake. I was panicked but sincere. However, I did not know of the fragile nature of the relationship between my W and her mother. I now realize that their relationship would have been seriously damaged anyway if a divorce occurs. I just have regret that I was the one to have been the one to notify my MIL that our marriage was in crisis.

[smith18]

In my case, I gave the emails exchanged between myself and her brother (who translated for her mother) to my W as I needed her to see that most of my letter was telling them was that our marriage was in trouble and I want them to support her and that I still loved her dearly. However, as my W pointed out, either the translation to her mother was bad or her mom only focused on 2 sentences (drinking/drunk driving and relationship with other men).

[SirPrizeMe]

Yes, I see that you guys are right.

I wrote that letter at 3am in a troubled state of mind.

Will it really help me? I am habitually seeking help from people outside our marriage - my sister, her father, the priest that married us. The fact is that none of these people can fix my marriage. And with my wife checked out, there is really only one person - ME - that may be able to do anything here.

On that front, I have to look honestly at my actions and say, that I have not been seriously DBing.

• Asking her to resume therapy 3 or 4 times in the summer? That's not "no pressure".
• I have been upset, and so I avoided her, especially in the past 17 days after she announced that she is filing for divorce. This is not "acting as if".
• I snooped in her emails to the OM. This is definitely not detachment.
• I've been out of the house 3 months but still don't have my own place. This is not GAL.

I'm a rookie at this DB stuff.

I think the letter is just more of my anti-DB tendencies. It's just more pressure, indirectly applied. I'm not sending it.

Taking a step back, I just need to get a life and see how we both feel after a while.

I may take your advice and send a SHORT letter stating my desire to resume counseling and reconcile. But if I do it will be a thoughtful one.

Her head is obviously way out of this marriage and nothing I say, to her or to her father, will change that. Nothing her father says to her will change her mind either. Maybe my actions, over the course of the next few months, may change it. Maybe not.

worth a try.

Thank you, thank you, all of you.

I wish you all, every blessing.

[SirPrizeMe]

god this hurts. Dear God take this away from me. Take this pain away, please.
please.

[Heimlich]

Hey, just skimming your thread and noticed a lot of similarites in general time line and the attitude of our wives about fear of opening up again.

Anyway, you gave yourself the best advice anyone could give you:

Taking a step back, I just need to get a life and see how we both feel after a while.

That's basically DBing and just about every other save your marriage book in a nutshell. So simple to say, so hard to do.

I fight the same urges as you. I honestly feel that if I could just get her to actually talk to me about what she feels and what she wants, there is absolutely nothing in our R that couldn't be repaired. Unfortunately, her head isn't in it. I read an analogy somewhere that the door to the heart can only be opened from the inside. You can't push it open. (on a lighter note, it's also like that "school for the gifted" Far Side cartoon). She's gotta open it to you. She can't do that if you're constantly pushing at the door or looking through the keyhole.

And, get some sleep (says the borderline insomniac).

Hang in there. We all process the pain at different speeds. For me, still hurts, but I find it's down to a dull ache and then not even all the time. More regret than pain at this point.

Anyway, print out and burn that letter.

BD

[smith18]

I feel for you. The emotional pain can feel more tremendous than physical pain.

The thing that really hurts is that one crazy selfish lady is majorly messing up the lives of 5 people (you and your children).

I really hope that where you live that there is a long waiting period before the D is final. In the meantime, just continue with the happy outward appearance (even though you are suffering inside) and you may never know - miracles can happen.

Have you considered talking to one of the DB coaches?