WAW - We are in a "Hang Loose" mode for now

[Just_Me]

you can't make her stop seeing the OM

That's true, but he can control how he handles it. In this case, he feels he isn't respecting himself by allowing an affair to go on while she lives in the house they share. I would find it very disrespectful as well.

I'd also like to add that while the example of "I'm glad you are okay honey" might work for a woman, it would look pathetic coming from a man. Picture this: You are folding laundry when your wife stumbles in smelling of booze and some other man, and all you can say is "I'm glad you are home"? Yuck. I'm sure she'd be shocked...but not sure if that's the message I'd prefer to send.

I'm not saying fly into a rage, but I'd expedite her leaving if she made a habit of going out. If she wants to date, she can get her own place.

But hopefully this is all just conjecture. She maybe will find a place. Or she'll break it off with OM. Who knows. I think the more likely scenario is that she'll indicate that she's broke it off with OM, she'll mope around the house angry at you, she'll continue to go out at night, claim she's just having fun with friends, and you'll be in the same boat. Of course, that's ugly conjecture on my part. How about just handling it when it comes up.

[Pudmuddle]

Well, JM, I guess part of the DB to me, is allowing yourself to let your ego down so you are not bullying someone away from you. As I mentioned, this applied to my sitch only and it worked but might not work for everyone else's sitches. I am trying to provide examples of what works for me so that maybe others can think on that and apply it to their situation for how it will work for them in their own way.

This is just my observation JM, you seem to be big on not letting your pride or ego down. It's rampant in your posts to others. Lighten up a little.

[smith18]

Just_Me -

Before she started the 10 days away taking care of her friends house, she had said that she needed to get an apartment for herself and I even helped her start the search online and drove by a few places close by. I will point that out if she tries to come back with the intention she is still going to be dating. She needs to stick to what she had promised.

I totally realize the I cannot stop her seeing OM. She also must realize how this is all going to look like to friends and family if she decides to end our marriage so as to be with someone so much older than she. Right now, she does not care about anyone except herself. She has said she would be ok just throwing all her friends and family relationships away. I will give her credit in that she still cares dearly for our children.

I feel a little bit like that character "Lester" played by Kevin Spacey in the movie "American Beauty". I am getting in good shape and like to look at my body. I now can actually remain quite calm when talking with my W knowing that she is seeing another man. I also can find some humor in our situation. For example, after my firm call with her yesterday, I had to look online to see her cell phone reaction. I noticed my call lasted 7 minutes and immediately after that she called OM which lasted 6 minutes. I raised my arms in victory as I had beat him by a minute. I just hope that I dont have a neighbor who is a Marine Colonel with a homosexual attraction to me.

[Heimlich]

Pud,
Don't want to gang up on you after the lovely PC remark on my thread, but, for some of us, it's a line that we can't cross. If Kerry decides that he can handle his W being home while having an A, that's fine. If not, that's fine too. We all have different tolerances for what we can take. Honestly, if I were to find out that my W had restarted her A before the ILBNILWY speech, I'd never allow her back because I could never trust her again. I don't believe she did, that's why I'm still here.

DBing isn't about allowing the WAS to do whatever they want and then taking them back anyway. Your sitch is working because you did an excellent job of acting as if and allowing the A to collapse under it's own weight. I don't know how you did it, but you did. If your H had a different personality, he may have just lost all respect for you for allowing him to keep doing what he was doing. Kerry may feel his W is the same way.

And JM doesn't need to lighten up. OT, on the other hand (though she did come up with the detachment gun idea)

BD

[Pudmuddle]

Hi Heim, (are you following me???)

Sorry Kerry going to hijack here for a minute to make a point about something that has been bothering me about this forum:

I totally agree and that was my whole point, was that I was sharing what worked for me in the hopes that others could ruminate on it and apply it to their situation, not the exact same way but whatever works for them. It is only to give hope to others that I provide examples, not that I think they must do it the way I do.

I do agree also that everyone has their own line that cannot be crossed, I wasn't saying that he should or shouldn't do what he feels, in fact I didn't say that at all, so you are reading between the lines of what I wrote. I had MANY times before in the past two years confronted, pressured, cried to my H about the OW, this time I knew it wouldn't work because it didn't in the past...that's how I held it together this time.

And some people whom I've mentioned before do allow their egos to get in the way of thinking they are handling things...(my way or the highway kind of thing). I just find it hard to listen to people side with each other just because they think there way is the only way to see it. This DB is about seeing things from another's perspective and for some that is very difficult for them to do. Let down the pride. Sometimes the truth hits hard and people can't accept hearing the truth. That's ok.

I don't believe that once a person has been a certain way that they will be that way forever - we are human. we make mistakes. sometimes we make BIG mistakes. We eff up. We are sorry we have done so. We already feel guilty enough about the stupid things we do. It's kind of like the well-meaning friends thing Michelle points out in her book. We mean well, but some of us are telling people what they want to hear and not pointing out the reality of what we see, because it will hurt.

Off my rant.

[Just_Me]

Thanks for the defending Heimlich.

Actually Pud, it's not necessarily an ego thing. I'll try to explain, but first, at least from what I've seen (from being here a very long time) is that for some things a guy cannot apply what a woman does with the same success. I don't give the same advice to a woman as I do to a man. And really, I think my message is consistent.

Okay, about the "ego" thing. If my wife was saying, "you have been an insensitive jerk our whole marriage, you are controlling, yada yada yada", I wouldn't feel as though I should kick her out. I think those situations call for actually swallowing your pride and acknowledging that she has a point. If, my wife had a one night stand when she was drunk, and was apologetic about it, I wouldn't kick her out. There would be a trust thing to work on and we would have to explore how it happened, but I wouldn't kick her out.

But, if my wife was having an affair, I knew about it, she openly acknowledge that she had feelings for this man, went out until late or didn't come home at all, I would kick her out. Is it an ego thing? No, to me it's a self-respect thing. It isn't to punish her and it isn't because my pride/ego is bruised. It's because it would show I have very little respect for myself if I was willing to accept that. DBing is about working on ourselves to improve. Turning a blind eye to an affair and pretending everything is okay to me is not an improvement. And if I was my wife, I wouldn't want to come back to a guy like that. I wouldn't respect a woman that would allow me to do that. But that's me.

Me

P.S.

This is just my observation JM, you seem to be big on not letting your pride or ego down. It's rampant in your posts to others. Lighten up a little.

I was thinking my advice does lean that way, but I explained that above. Maybe I put to much of my own personal leanings in this, but I feel strongly that part of this process is being able to look yourself in the mirror and know you didn't sacrifice your own self-esteem to try to save the marriage. Humble yourself, yes. Be apologetic, yes. Be willing to look at where you can improve, yes. But doormat, no. Becoming someone I'm not or that I'm not proud to be, no.

[Pudmuddle]

I will point that out if she tries to come back with the intention she is still going to be dating. She needs to stick to what she had promised.

I think this is a good thing to do as she probably needs to be reminded of what she is saying. I remember my H had a terrible memory during this confusing time and I often had to point out things that he had said. It kind of holds them accountable for their bizarre actions.

I totally realize the I cannot stop her seeing OM. She also must realize how this is all going to look like to friends and family if she decides to end our marriage so as to be with someone so much older than she. Right now, she does not care about anyone except herself.

Good observation on your part. She is absolutely not thinking of anyone but herself right now. As soon as she realizes the steps she will have to take to follow through on all of this, she might not want that.

Good for you at getting in shape! That will make your PMA attitude easier to happen. And very good at injecting the humor into the crazy world of WAS.

I just hope that I dont have a neighbor who is a Marine Colonel with a homosexual attraction to me.

LOL

[Pudmuddle]

I hate this saying, but we can agree to disagree JM.

If your S is having an affair, it's because their are problems with your marriage and she is lacking something from you and vice versa. Self-respect is part of the conscious behavior that makes you react immediately. The fact that you would not be willing to accept the affair does not show lack of self respect but that you are unwilling to see the problems you/she have cause that got you to that place. AKA pride, ego in the way.

I guess I believe in the inner good of people and that we all make big effing mistakes sometimes. And if you can forgive someone for that big F mistake, you will get back tenfold the good you had from them in the past. I don't like hanging on and being bitter for the rest of my life. Not me.

[Pudmuddle]

I was thinking my advice does lean that way, but I explained that above. Maybe I put to much of my own personal leanings in this, but I feel strongly that part of this process is being able to look yourself in the mirror and know you didn't sacrifice your own self-esteem to try to save the marriage. Humble yourself, yes. Be apologetic, yes. Be willing to look at where you can improve, yes. But doormat, no. Becoming someone I'm not or that I'm not proud to be, no.

I agree with you here JM. I think letting your pride down is not being a doormat but understanding another's point of view. This is veeeeeeeeeerry hard for a lot of people to do and understandable.

[smith18]

Pud/JM -

I can see both of your perspectives. Accepting the affair and seeing your own responsibility for causing your S to enter into the affair can be blocked by your pride/ego. However, one must have some sort of self respect so as to not think of themselves as being an enabler so that their S can have a place to stay while they continue with an affair. I also feel that my W being on her own away from the kids and I will give her more a dose of the reality of what she is doing to herself and her family.

Before I was married, my brother had to move in with me. He was an alcoholic at the time. I could only put up with his killing himself with the bottle for so long. I realized that I was an enabler to his problem because I gave him a comfortable place to drink himself to death. I made the tough decision to throw him out so that I could respect myself for not being a contributer to what appeared to be a soon demise. Fortunately, after he moved out, he eventually found that life without someone to fall back on is tough, and he finally gave up drinking.